**DISCONTINUED**Court Claim: Weightmans / Cabot Financial UK

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Court Claim: Weightmans / Cabot Financial UK

They have produced what they have at the moment, none of which is a signed agreement.

As per Carey, a signed agreement is not required, a recon can be acceptable but it has to be honest and accurate and contain the terms applicable to your account at the time of inception as well as your name and address at the time. From what I've seen here, I don't think they provided a recon either, i.e. they didn't comply with s.78. :thumb:

Are they still allowed to bring any extra documents on the hearing?? as the 14 days deadline to exchange document copies has passed now. My goal is to get this claim dismissed.

No, they should have supplied you with all the documents they intend to rely on prior to the hearing.

The account they refer to is SB in August 2015, in case they try to raise a new claim in future.

When was the claim issued? If it was issued before that, then the clock stopped at the time the claim was issued. :mmph:

Weightmans LLP has not attached copies of assignment of account from CITI to Opus and the from OPUS to Cabot. Is it normal practice? I mean, if I am correct, there has to be documents to make chain from the Claimant back to the original creditor.

The sale from Citi to Opus would have been the whole of the Citi cards portfolio rather than an individual assignment, however, there should be at least a notice of assignment from Opus or whoever was the previous owner to Cabot, to show they have the right to make a claim.

"Currently" as of the date on their letter. I understand that bit, and I also understand it confirms their continued effort into finding them.

But does it not make it look more a BLAME than a CLAIM, and wasting the time of court and everyone involved. I just need to know if this is a point worth mentioned at the hearing.

It certainly is, if the claimants themselves are admitting in black and white that the account is unenforceable, why do they issue a claim? I also understand that it's a fluid situation subject to change should they find the documents but then they should get them before getting in touch with the Bulk Centre. :rant: :rant: :rant:

[asifsh]

Re: Court Claim: Weightmans / Cabot Financial UK

The copy of credit agreement from OPUS I've been sent shows a date of agreement in November 2010, printed at the bottom of the page. But within the agreement, it says the some terms of agreement are effected by a change of law with effect from 1st January 2013. I know the agreement is manipulated, or how on the earth you can have an agreement in 2010 which says it is effected by a change of law in 2013. :faint:

[nemesis45]

Re: Court Claim: Weightmans / Cabot Financial UK

The copy of credit agreement from OPUS I've been sent shows a date of agreement in November 2010, printed at the bottom of the page. But within the agreement, it says the some terms of agreement are effected by a change of law with effect from 1st January 2013. I know the agreement is manipulated, or how on the earth you can have an agreement in 2010 which says it is effected by a change of law in 2013. :faint:

Hi I've not been involved in your thread too much but I'll try to pick up on what's going on!

It would help If I could see a copy of this credit agreement can you post a copy after removing all personal identifiers please?

From this post alone I feel that what you have is an attempt at a reconstituted agreement, which has failed !

nem

[asifsh]

Re: Court Claim: Weightmans / Cabot Financial UK

Hi I've not been involved in your thread too much but I'll try to pick up on what's going on!

It would help If I could see a copy of this credit agreement can you post a copy after removing all personal identifiers please?

From this post alone I feel that what you have is an attempt at a reconstituted agreement, which has failed !

nem

In the witness statement they claim the date at the bottom of pages (20.11.2010) to be the date of assignment of this agreement from CITI to OPUS. No copy of a notice of assignment has been provided.

Please note the highlighted information of the 2nd attachment above. "The law regarding the assumptions changed on 1 January 2013".

[nemesis45]

Re: Court Claim: Weightmans / Cabot Financial UK

In the witness statement they claim the date at the bottom of pages (20.11.2010) to be the date of assignment of this agreement from CITI to OPUS. No copy of a notice of assignment has been provided.

Please note the highlighted information of the 2nd attachment above. "The law regarding the assumptions changed on 1 January 2013".

In regard to the address on the 1st Page is it the one you were at when the agreement was signed?

To comply as a recon it must be the original a agreement with Citi NOT Opos .
nemis

[asifsh]

Re: Court Claim: Weightmans / Cabot Financial UK

In regard to the address on the 1st Page is it the one you were at when the agreement was signed?

Yes it is.

To comply as a recon it must be the original a agreement with Citi NOT Opos .
nemis

With regards to the agreement with CITI, they have sent me a copy of an application form signed on 27/05/2004, and an agreement with my details dated 02/03/2004. (Scan at Post #50). Again note the the dates, the agreement starts almost 3 months BEFORE my application.

[nemesis45]

Re: Court Claim: Weightmans / Cabot Financial UK

Yes it is.


With regards to the agreement with CITI, they have sent me a copy of an application form signed on 27/05/2004, and an agreement with my details dated 02/03/2004. (Scan at Post #50). Again note the the dates, the agreement starts almost 3 months BEFORE my application.

I think the recon fails it is impossible for you to reconcile the dates to the debt.

When these document are mentioned in defence and WS it should be stated the you believe that it fails as a recon agreement.

nem

[asifsh]

Re: Court Claim: Weightmans / Cabot Financial UK

I think the recon fails it is impossible for you to reconcile the dates to the debt.

When these document are mentioned in defence and WS it should be stated the you believe that it fails as a recon agreement.

nem

Well they only sent me these copies 15 days before the hearing date so there is nothing I could mentioned about these documents in my Witness Statement. Although I wrote that as of the day of my WS, my CCA and CPR request were not honored.

(1) Will I get the chance at the hearing to explain my findings from the Claimant's WS and documents they sent me?

(2) Will the judge ask Claimant's representative to present the original of the copies they have sent to me? Is there any legal requirement for documents printed from a computer/copier to bear any sort of attestation of handlers?

[Amethyst]

Re: Court Claim: Weightmans / Cabot Financial UK

You could write a 'skeleton argument' or an additional witness statement off the back of the information they have provided in their witness statement - ie the documents and send that into the court. It should really be an amended defence though.

[MENTION=551]pt2537[/MENTION]


Where is the Citi agreement ? The 'document' may be dated say January 2004 but that is just the version of the form for Citi's ref.

[nemesis45]

Re: Court Claim: Weightmans / Cabot Financial UK

Well they only sent me these copies 15 days before the hearing date so there is nothing I could mentioned about these documents in my Witness Statement. Although I wrote that as of the day of my WS, my CCA and CPR request were not honored.

(1) Will I get the chance at the hearing to explain my findings from the Claimant's WS and documents they sent me?

(2) Will the judge ask Claimant's representative to present the original of the copies they have sent to me? Is there any legal requirement for documents printed from a computer/copier to bear any sort of attestation of handlers?

Good Morning,

The claimants representative must have copies all the documents that the are relying on in court to hand at the hearing.
I would expect the judge to ask if you now have the documents requested via a CCA Request, and you can of course also

mention the CPR31.14 request was not met.

nem

[asifsh]

Re: Court Claim: Weightmans / Cabot Financial UK

Where is the Citi agreement ? The 'document' may be dated say January 2004 but that is just the version of the form for Citi's ref.

Please see Post#50 for scans of agreement they are claiming from CITI. Note the date on 'application form' and the 'agreement'. The 'agreement' is dated 3 months before the date on 'application form'.

In fact it does not say application form any where on the document, can they still say it is an application form?

[asifsh]

Re: Court Claim: Weightmans / Cabot Financial UK

Went to the hearing. I mentioned all the discrepancies in the documents. Cabot's representative was unable to explain any of the discrepancies in the documents.

I rose the point that Cabot Financial UK Ltd's license had lapsed before making this claim and under the CCA s40 an agreement can not be enforced by an unlicensed entity. The judge asked for explanation from the Cabot's representative. The rep said that he is aware that I raised this point but it was after submitting my WS and is not part of my WS, also he said that he has been informed that Cabot Financial UK Ltd as being part of the Cabot/Marlin are allowed to use license of their sister/parent company. The judge said that if applicable it is a fundamental error and having not mentioned in the WS does not mean can be overlooked. I told the judge there is a judgement which prevents them from doing so. I had read about Hicks v Walker and Reynolds in these threads.

I and Cabot were given 3 weeks to submit evidence and WS in regards with the license issue.


Guess What this is what I've received from Weightmans Today,




Thank you all who helped me throughout this process. Especially to mention FlammingParrot and nemesis45 for their prompt responses.

[nemesis45]

Re: Court Claim: Weightmans / Cabot Financial UK

Went to the hearing. I mentioned all the discrepancies in the documents. Cabot's representative was unable to explain any of the discrepancies in the documents.

I rose the point that Cabot Financial UK Ltd's license had lapsed before making this claim and under the CCA s40 an agreement can not be enforced by an unlicensed entity. The judge asked for explanation from the Cabot's representative. The rep said that he is aware that I raised this point but it was after submitting my WS and is not part of my WS, also he said that he has been informed that Cabot Financial UK Ltd as being part of the Cabot/Marlin are allowed to use license of their sister/parent company. The judge said that if applicable it is a fundamental error and having not mentioned in the WS does not mean can be overlooked. I told the judge there is a judgement which prevents them from doing so. I had read about Hicks v Walker and Reynolds in these threads.

I and Cabot were given 3 weeks to submit evidence and WS in regards with the license issue.


Guess What this is what I've received from Weightmans Today,




Thank you all who helped me throughout this process. Especially to mention FlammingParrot and nemesis45 for their prompt responses.

Well done!!

[Amethyst]

Re: Court Claim: Weightmans / Cabot Financial UK

Good news. I wonder which aspects they decided they didn't want to argue about in court.

[asifsh]

Re: Court Claim: Weightmans / Cabot Financial UK

Good news. I wonder which aspects they decided they didn't want to argue about in court.

I guess having multiple discrepancies in their evidence, gave them a hint of a weaker position. Perhaps they didn't want to take risk by defending the license issue as they had the idea that they had almost lost their claim anyways and getting a judgement against in regards with the licensing issue will definitely risk all their claims made under Cabot Financial (UK) Ltd portfolio since March 2015.