**DISCONTINUED**Court Claim: Weightmans / Cabot Financial UK

[pt2537]

Re: Court Claim: Weightmans / Cabot Financial UK

So if the claim was brought under the name of Cabot Financial (UK), whose authorisation had lapsed at the time of issue, and still is, then how can that be used here?

Ex turpi causa non oritur actio

Google is your friend

[asifsh]

Re: Court Claim: Weightmans / Cabot Financial UK

A lot of posters here have received Cabot's unenforceable letters after being taken to court. Cabot have to rely on the original creditor to supply them with the paperwork, they have no way of knowing whether if will ever be found or not. The OCs are in no hurry to dig up the documents once they've sold the account. Cabot are obviously optimistic about obtaining the paperwork before the hearing. :flypig: :flypig:

Thank you. 2 more questions please,
1) The hearing notice says the copies of documents to rely on must be submitted to the court and other party no longer than 14 days before hearing date, does it mean Cabot have up to 14 days prior to hearing to produce these or they can just turn up on hearing date with any documents?

2) Am I suppose to submit a copy of Cobat's letter stating that they can not provide me the documents as requested in CCA to the court and other party(Weightmans LLP)?

[pt2537]

Re: Court Claim: Weightmans / Cabot Financial UK

Thank you. 2 more questions please,
1) The hearing notice says the copies of documents to rely on must be submitted to the court and other party no longer than 14 days before hearing date, does it mean Cabot have up to 14 days prior to hearing to produce these or they can just turn up on hearing date with any documents?

2) Am I suppose to submit a copy of Cobat's letter stating that they can not provide me the documents as requested in CCA to the court and other party(Weightmans LLP)?

erm perhaps banging a letter into their lawyers citing the fact they have no authorisation would be the way to go? i mean nothing like a criminal offence to focus the mind.

Of course, if you want to ignore such an obvious advantage then thats your call .

[asifsh]

Re: Court Claim: Weightmans / Cabot Financial UK

erm perhaps banging a letter into their lawyers citing the fact they have no authorisation would be the way to go? i mean nothing like a criminal offence to focus the mind.

Of course, if you want to ignore such an obvious advantage then thats your call .

Do we have any templete of such leter on the forum or elsewhere for a guide?

[asifsh]

Re: Court Claim: Weightmans / Cabot Financial UK

Despite the claimant's written confirmation of failure to provide documents (Letter is at post# 28) as requested in my CCA request I've received a bundle of documents from Weightmans LLP. It means they are preparing for the hearing as am I.

Here I would need someone's assistance and advise with my findings and questions to get prepared ahead of hearing. I would appreciate plain English advise rather than legal language to understand easily and better.

(1) 3 months after making a claim against me, a written confirmation from the claimant that the agreement is unenforceable and they are not permitted to obtain a judgement or decree against me in the court, can be used as defense? Does it not invalidate the claim?

(2) The copies of documents I've been sent by Weightmans LLP has no document with the same account number mentioned on the claim form. Should I point this out at the hearing??

(3) The bundle of documents starts with a witness statement that reads that the facts are derived from documents and computer records held by the Claimant and/or Cabot Financial Ltd and/or Weightmans LLP. The statement then mentions an application for the provision of credit from Citifinancial Europe Plc. The Witness Statement then mentions the reference to the copies of this credit application (attached below) and "reconstituted credit agreement and terms and conditions" governing this application (Attached below first page of this 'claimed' agreement). Although the witness statement confirms the 2nd document is reconstituted, I am surprised to see that this document has my details on it and is dated 85 days before the date of application form. This is clear that either these documents belong to two different accounts with my details or one of them has been MADE UP. Is it a valid finding to be mentioned?



(4) The Witness Statement then says that I utilised the provision of credit from City between 24 June 2009 until 14 August 2009 and stopped making payments to Citi Card from 14 September 2009. On 20 November 2010, Citi transferred my account to NewDay Limited trading as Opus. (NewDay Limited was dissolved in 1998 I think they meant NewDay Ltd.). A copy of computer generated agreement is supplied from OPUS. No document has been provided to confirm this transfer of account from Citi to Opus. Although I doubt the legitimacy of this 'transfer' of account as in fact the account with Citi was in dispute for their non-compliance with my CCA request back in Mid 2009. I have the 3 letters I posted to Citi and warned them that I will stop making payments if they were unable to proof the existence of an legitimate credit agreement between me and them. Is such transfer of disputed account between creditors legitimate?



(5) They have produced a computer generated agreement with my name and address on it, followed by some account statements from OPUS. The agreement and statements have different account numbers.



(6) The Witness Statements says that despite the Default Notices being served, the Defendant failed to remedy the breach which resulted NewDay Limited, T/A Opus, terminating the agreement on 31 March 2010 before assigning all the rights under the terms of the agreement to the Claimant on 28 April 2011 (After 13 months ???). Again no document has been provided to support such assignment. In fact I have a letter from Claimant (Cabot) dated May 2011 which says “The Cabot Financial Group has recently bought the account you held with the Opus Credit Card”.



For those helping beagles who didn't follow this thread, the actual claim was made by Claimant for an account with OPUS CREDIT CARD and no other details were provided by the Claimant or Wigthmans LLP until now (Particulars of Claim at post# 1). As I have only received these documents about 14 days before the date of hearing, non of the information above was included in my Witness Statement as I was not provided with any documentation by the Claimant. Therefore please assist me accordingly how to present my findings at the hearing.

I appreciate your time and effort to answer my questions.

- - - Updated - - -

[nemesis45]

Re: Court Claim: Weightmans / Cabot Financial UK

Interesting Point at (6) " Cabot GROUP has recently bought" could relate to recent anomalies in Cabot's status?

nem

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Court Claim: Weightmans / Cabot Financial UK

Do we have any templete of such leter on the forum or elsewhere for a guide?

There are some letters/emails you can send, re-quoting them below for convenience. :thumb:

It may seem like a lot but it's mostly a matter of copying and pasting and just filling in the bits highlighted in red. You can do most of it by email/online. :typing:

---

A) To be emailed to: cabotcustomer@cabotfinancial.com

Subject: Court claim xxxxxxx

Dear Cabot Financial (UK) Limited,

I am in receipt of court claim xxxxxxxx and note that Cabot Financial (UK) Limited are the claimant. I note that upon searching the FCA register that the license for conducting regulated consumer credit activities lapsed on 28/02/15. I would like to draw your attention to S39 of the consumer credit act which makes carrying on activities for which a license is required, without one, a criminal offence.

Yours sincerely

---

B) To be sent to Weightmans.

(Their email address would be in their letters, otherwise send it by post)

Subject: Court claim xxxxxxx

Dear Sirs,

In the matter of Cabot Financial (UK) Limited v me Ref #######

I note that your client , the claimant, is Cabot Financial (UK) Limited. I note the claim form has been signed by xxxx and as is normal practice is accompanied by a statement of truth.

I further note that upon a search of the FCA register that the status of the claimants license is LAPSED and it did indeed lapse on 28/02/2015 which i note is before the claim was initiated and the said statement of truth signed by xxxx. I would like to draw your attention to s.39 of the Consumer Credit Act which makes carrying on activities for which a license is required without one, a criminal offence. It is also potentially contempt of court for xxxx to sign a statement of truth for a court claim on which they cannot have had a reasonable belief in its truth.

I would point out that s.40 of the Consumer Credit Act makes enforcement without a license impossible.

I await with interest your response.

Yours sincerely

---

C) To be emailed to the court: ccbcdefendants@hmcts.gsi.gov.uk

Subject :- Court claim xxxxxxx Cabot Financial (UK) Limited v ME

To the manager of the court.

Please put this letter before the judge.

I would like draw to the attention of the court that the claimant is carrying on regulated consumer credit business without a valid license. The FCA register number for Cabot Financial (UK) Limited is 472690 and shows as lapsed and also that it lapsed on 28/02/15.

The consumer credit act 1974 requires a license under section 21. Section 39 makes activities of this nature, without a license, a criminal offence.

This will obviously be a feature of my defence however due to the large volume of these claims i felt the court should be informed so any investigation deemed necessary, or not, could reduce the burden placed upon the courts.

Aside from the immediate criminal offence the solicitor has signed a statement of truth and i believe this might constitute contempt of court as they cannot have held an honest believe in the truth of the statement and i would ask that that particular matter be referred to the Attorney General.

Yours sincerely

---

D) Report to the SRA: http://www.sra.org.uk/home/contactus.page -> Select - consumer- other and proceed to step 3.

Subject - Criminal act - Consumer credit - Solicitor aiding

I would like to inform the SRA that Weightmans have lodged court papers against me on behalf of Cabot Financial (UK) Limited. I appreciate that doesn't seem like a problem so please bear with me.

Cabot Financial (UK) Limited is, according to the FCA register for consumer credit, no longer a license holder and has not been since 28/02/2015. Registration number 472690.

The consumer credit act 1974 requires a license under section 21. Section 39 makes activities of this nature, without a license, a criminal offence.

Aside from the immediate criminal offence the solicitor has signed a statement of truth and i believe this might constitute contempt of court and have asked the court to refer this to the Attorney General.

Yours sincerely

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Court Claim: Weightmans / Cabot Financial UK

Despite the claimant's written confirmation of failure to provide documents (Letter is at post# 28) as requested in my CCA request I've received a bundle of documents from Weightmans LLP. It means they are preparing for the hearing as am I.

Here I would need someone's assistance and advise with my findings and questions to get prepared ahead of hearing. I would appreciate plain English advise rather than legal language to understand easily and better.

(1) 3 months after making a claim against me, a written confirmation from the claimant that the agreement is unenforceable and they are not permitted to obtain a judgement or decree against me in the court, can be used as defense? Does it not invalidate the claim?

You are probably referring to one of Cabot's generic template letters where they say the ACCOUNT is unenforceable because they've not been able to provide you with a copy of your agreement in response to your CCA request. That would be a temporary situation under s.78 of the CCA that says that an account cannot be enforced while they are in default of your request, however, if they satisfy you request the account could be unenforceable. This isn't quite the same as saying that the AGREEMENT is unenforceable, something that only a judge would be able to assert. :juge:

(2) The copies of documents I've been sent by Weightmans LLP has no document with the same account number mentioned on the claim form. Should I point this out at the hearing??

Debt purchasers often assign their own account numbers, Marlin often did that and now Cabot/Marlin are one and the same.

(3) The bundle of documents starts with a witness statement that reads that the facts are derived from documents and computer records held by the Claimant and/or Cabot Financial Ltd and/or Weightmans LLP. The statement then mentions an application for the provision of credit from Citifinancial Europe Plc. The Witness Statement then mentions the reference to the copies of this credit application (attached below) and "reconstituted credit agreement and terms and conditions" governing this application (Attached below first page of this 'claimed' agreement). Although the witness statement confirms the 2nd document is reconstituted, I am surprised to see that this document has my details on it and is dated 85 days before the date of application form. This is clear that either these documents belong to two different accounts with my details or one of them has been MADE UP. Is it a valid finding to be mentioned?

Definitely a valid finding, :grin: how could they have your details three months BEFORE you filled in your application form? :confused2:

(4) The Witness Statement then says that I utilised the provision of credit from City between 24 June 2009 until 14 August 2009 and stopped making payments to Citi Card from 14 September 2009. On 20 November 2010, Citi transferred my account to NewDay Limited trading as Opus. (NewDay Limited was dissolved in 1998 I think they meant NewDay Ltd.). A copy of computer generated agreement is supplied from OPUS. No document has been provided to confirm this transfer of account from Citi to Opus. Although I doubt the legitimacy of this 'transfer' of account as in fact the account with Citi was in dispute for their non-compliance with my CCA request back in Mid 2009. I have the 3 letters I posted to Citi and warned them that I will stop making payments if they were unable to proof the existence of an legitimate credit agreement between me and them. Is such transfer of disputed account between creditors legitimate?

You would have been informed that your Citi card was sold to Opus, I also had one of them. There's nothing illegitimate about one creditor buying another creditor's portfolio, it's done all the time.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Court Claim: Weightmans / Cabot Financial UK

(5) They have produced a computer generated agreement with my name and address on it, followed by some account statements from OPUS. The agreement and statements have different account numbers.

(6) The Witness Statements says that despite the Default Notices being served, the Defendant failed to remedy the breach which resulted NewDay Limited, T/A Opus, terminating the agreement on 31 March 2010

This is significant because the Citi cards were only sold to Opus in November 2010, certainly NOT in March 2010!

before assigning all the rights under the terms of the agreement to the Claimant on 28 April 2011 (After 13 months ???). Again no document has been provided to support such assignment. In fact I have a letter from Claimant (Cabot) dated May 2011 which says “The Cabot Financial Group has recently bought the account you held with the Opus Credit Card”.

That's fair enough, not all defaulted accounts are sold immediately, as far as I know mine haven't been sold and they're nearly SBd! The letter you refer to would have been the notice of assignment.

For those helping beagles who didn't follow this thread, the actual claim was made by Claimant for an account with OPUS CREDIT CARD and no other details were provided by the Claimant or Wigthmans LLP until now (Particulars of Claim at post# 1). As I have only received these documents about 14 days before the date of hearing, non of the information above was included in my Witness Statement as I was not provided with any documentation by the Claimant. Therefore please assist me accordingly how to present my findings at the hearing.

Did you get @pt2537 to comment on the Opus angle? I think I posted up a link to the case he won on that argument. :yo:

[asifsh]

Re: Court Claim: Weightmans / Cabot Financial UK

There are some letters/emails you can send, re-quoting them below for convenience. :thumb:

It may seem like a lot but it's mostly a matter of copying and pasting and just filling in the bits highlighted in red. You can do most of it by email/online. :typing:

---

Done. Emailed to the Cabot and Court. No email on Weightmans letters so faxed them. Also reported to SRA. Thank you.

[asifsh]

Re: Court Claim: Weightmans / Cabot Financial UK

You are probably referring to one of Cabot's generic template letters where they say the ACCOUNT is unenforceable because they've not been able to provide you with a copy of your agreement in response to your CCA request. That would be a temporary situation under s.78 of the CCA that says that an account cannot be enforced while they are in default of your request, however, if they satisfy you request the account could be unenforceable. This isn't quite the same as saying that the AGREEMENT is unenforceable, something that only a judge would be able to assert. :juge:

The letters says " Your CREDIT AGREEMENT is currently unenforceable".

[Amethyst]

Re: Court Claim: Weightmans / Cabot Financial UK

''currently'' is the operative word there - but until they find them they can't get judgment against you ( so long as you follow court procedures and defend properly etc )

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Court Claim: Weightmans / Cabot Financial UK

Done. Emailed to the Cabot and Court. No email on Weightmans letters so faxed them. Also reported to SRA. Thank you.

:clap2: :clap2: :clap2:

The letters says " Your CREDIT AGREEMENT is currently unenforceable".

Yes, that's the one I was referring to. I find their choice of words a little strange because you can't tell whether a credit agreement is enforceable or not without looking at it, :confused2: I'd be inclined to refer to "your account" but they're probably not as picky as me. :grin:

Either way, the point is that the account/agreement is unenforceable for as long as they can't find the agreement/obtain it from the original creditor, if they ever manage to get hold of it, it may/may not be enforceable, that would depend on the actual document.

[asifsh]

Re: Court Claim: Weightmans / Cabot Financial UK

:clap2: :clap2: :clap2:
Either way, the point is that the account/agreement is unenforceable for as long as they can't find the agreement/obtain it from the original creditor, if they ever manage to get hold of it, it may/may not be enforceable, that would depend on the actual document.

They have produced what they have at the moment, none of which is a signed agreement.

Are they still allowed to bring any extra documents on the hearing?? as the 14 days deadline to exchange document copies has passed now. My goal is to get this claim dismissed. The account they refer to is SB in August 2015, in case they try to raise a new claim in future.

Weightmans LLP has not attached copies of assignment of account from CITI to Opus and the from OPUS to Cabot. Is it normal practice? I mean, if I am correct, there has to be documents to make chain from the Claimant back to the original creditor.

[asifsh]

Re: Court Claim: Weightmans / Cabot Financial UK

''currently'' is the operative word there - but until they find them they can't get judgment against you ( so long as you follow court procedures and defend properly etc )

"Currently" as of the date on their letter. I understand that bit, and I also understand it confirms their continued effort into finding them.

But does it not make it look more a BLAME than a CLAIM, and wasting the time of court and everyone involved. I just need to know if this is a point worth mentioned at the hearing.