WON !!! CQ Court Claim received - CCA not received

[FlamingParrot]

Re: CQ Court Claim received - CCA not received

Thank you both for your help so far.
I will be joining the VIP subscription soon - even if it's only to show gratitude for the help you've given

I notice you've already joined. :clap2: Would you like site team to move this thread to the VIP area?

I think I've done the online response correctly. I have acknowledged and ticked the box stating my intention to defend in full.
And then clicked "summary", NOT "next".

My CPR 31.14 Request is going in the post tomorrow.

Yes, you've done the right thing. You have a total of 28 days to submit your defence, but if the claimant doesn't respond to your request in a timely manner, they will have to agree to an extension. :thumb:

[6strings]

Re: CQ Court Claim received - CCA not received

:clap2: Would you like site team to move this thread to the VIP area? :thumb:

Yes please FP, I can then chat a little more freely without being so paranoid.

Also, Do I need to start preparing anything to get ahead of the game?

[FlamingParrot]

Re: CQ Court Claim received - CCA not received

I didn't think the remedy days were working days and only came into play for service.

You're right, the days to remedy are not working days, but the August BH would have affected service.

Thing is with this even paying the arears would not have been enough to stop and breach of the agreement. I am sure I read something about this in one of Pauls Blogs or on the other site

Been looking and I can't find anything that says the arrears are not enough if it goes over the credit limit. Any idea where it could have been? (PM me if necessary )

[FlamingParrot]

Re: CQ Court Claim received - CCA not received

Yes please FP, I can then chat a little more freely without being so paranoid.

Have asked Site Team to move it. :thumb:

Also, Do I need to start preparing anything to get ahead of the game?

Would be good if you could dig up any paperwork you may have which could be relevant.

[Amethyst]

Re: CQ Court Claim received - CCA not received

Thread relocated xxx

[FlamingParrot]

Re: CQ Court Claim received - CCA not received

I didn't think the remedy days were working days and only came into play for service. Thing is with this even paying the arears would not have been enough to stop and breach of the agreement. I am sure I read something about this in one of Pauls Blogs or on the other site

I seem to have located the bit that refers to the credit limit being exceeded: http://paulatwatsonssolicitors.wordp...default+notice

The Judge in Mayhew said in respect of the Default notice

Was the default notice valid? Under section 87 of the Consumer Credit Act a default notice must be served before any termination or demand for earlier payment. Section 88 of the Act provides that a default notice must be in the prescribed form. The Claimant served a default notice by post of 12th October 2012. The Defendant says that the notice was defective because it gave the
wrong figure for the amount due and no OFT fact sheet was included. The Claimant explains that the difference is the amount by which the Defendant’s credit limit had been exceeded and that error was detrimental to the Claimant rather than to the Defendant. It was the Claimant’s case that the OFT fact sheet would have been included with the default notice and in the event that it was not there was a clear statement at the end of the notice that the Defendant should contact the Claimant so that the sheet could be sent. The Defendant denied that the OFT fact sheet was sent with the default notice, stated that she did not request the sheet and candidly admitted that she might not have read the whole letter. No evidence was adduced before me actively saying the fact sheet had been enclosed. The Claimant invited me to conclude that that the defects in the default notice were de minimis but I do not agree. The whole point of a default notice is that the debtor should know exactly what is owed and it is irrelevant that any defect would be to the detriment of the creditor. I accept the evidence of the Defendant that no OFT fact sheet was enclosed and words inviting her to send for the missing sheet are not sufficient to remedy the defect of its absence. It is unfortunately the case that many debtors in the position of the Defendant in this case do not read to the end of letters thus the importance of documents being enclosed.

The above also highlights a further point that's often overlooked: whether the OFT factsheet was included with the DN.

We could get PT2537 who dealt with this case and/or PlanB (the defendant on the case above) to comment on the above.

[6strings]

Re: CQ Court Claim received - CCA not received

[QUOTEThe above also highlights a further point that's often overlooked: whether the OFT factsheet was included with the DN. [/QUOTE]

No OFT factsheet was included.

Also, I've been going through my files and discovered a couple of potential anomalies.
Can someone cast their eye over this and give an opinion?

My last "statement" from Lloyds (December 2009) was for £11'939.45
The Lloyds DN (August 2009) was for £11'950.45
Since January 2010, all DCA's have been demanding £11'939.45
Now Capquest/Drydens are demanding in their PoC £11'939.50 (plus court fee and costs)
A 5pence difference

In August 2009, I sent a CCA request to Lloyds.
sent recorded delivery (i have the receipt, but not the Royal Mail tracking proof of delivery)
In October 2009, they assigned the £1 postal order as "payment received" on my monthly statement.
As in my post earlier, Lloyds wrote to me on December 2009 basically saying that they could not locate original agreement.
Should they have returned my £1 CCA request fee?
My last ever payment to this account was for £10 in August 2009

Does this affect anything?

[6strings]

Re: CQ Court Claim received - CCA not received

I received an undated letter yesterday from:
Lloyds Banking Group
Processing and Refunds Team
PO Box 487
Brighton
BN1 4GY
It contains copies of credit card statements from Dec 2007 thru Dec 2009
2 of the statements include a notice about having missed payments.
My original statements (which I have in my possession) go back as far as Dec 2005.
And this statement shows a balance which was brought forward.


Is this supposed to be my CCA request from Capquest/Drydens?
Why did they only send statements from 2007 onwards?
Are they trying to suggest that this agreement was started later than it actually was?
I'm at a loss as what to do next. Can I get some advice me please?

[Amethyst]

Re: CQ Court Claim received - CCA not received

That sounds like your list of transactions you requested under your CPR request and presumably SAR from previously. Banks often only send out the past 6 years of transaction lists (statements) as they tend to argue they don't need to keep them longer than this due to the limitation acts.

Still no CCA then.

Was there no covering letter with your documents?

Or have you enquired about PPI - odd the letter coming from the processing and refunds team really.

Have you heard anything from CQ since sending the CPR request - and what's your deadline for entering a defence ?

[FlamingParrot]

Re: CQ Court Claim received - CCA not received

I received an undated letter yesterday from:
Lloyds Banking Group
Processing and Refunds Team
PO Box 487
Brighton
BN1 4GY
It contains copies of credit card statements from Dec 2007 thru Dec 2009
2 of the statements include a notice about having missed payments.
My original statements (which I have in my possession) go back as far as Dec 2005.
And this statement shows a balance which was brought forward.

Is this supposed to be my CCA request from Capquest/Drydens?

No, statements are NOT a response to a CCA request. They should have supplied you with a true copy of the credit agreement you allegedly signed when you opened the account, containing all the prescribed terms you are supposed to have agreed to at inception, as well as varied terms and a statement of account (not historical statements). Did you at any time send a SAR? :noidea:

Why did they only send statements from 2007 onwards?
Are they trying to suggest that this agreement was started later than it actually was?
I'm at a loss as what to do next. Can I get some advice me please?

It is customary for companies to say the only hold data for the past 6 years, which means when you send a SAR, you'd usually get statements for the past 6 years. Ever bank I'd sent a SAR to, has sent data just for 6 years. This has nothing to do with arguing the agreement started at a later date. Regardless of their 6 year data storage procedures, they should still be able to produce a copy of the agreement.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: CQ Court Claim received - CCA not received

In August 2009, I sent a CCA request to Lloyds.
sent recorded delivery (i have the receipt, but not the Royal Mail tracking proof of delivery)
In October 2009, they assigned the £1 postal order as "payment received" on my monthly statement.
As in my post earlier, Lloyds wrote to me on December 2009 basically saying that they could not locate original agreement.
Should they have returned my £1 CCA request fee?
My last ever payment to this account was for £10 in August 2009

Does this affect anything?

No, they didn't have to return the fee, you paid them the fee to cover their admin costs.

Do you still have that letter? I can't see how they could go to court without producing the agreement, and if they couldn't locate it in 2009, what are the chances of it being located now?

I'm not a lawyer but I reckon you have good prospects of defending on the basis of non-compliance with s.78. :thumb:

[6strings]

Re: CQ Court Claim received - CCA not received

Hi Amethyst,

Many thanks for the quick response. (Great forum)

There was no covering letter, just a compliment slip.
No PPI owing, as I never opted for this. Looking at my statements, nothing showing.
I've heard nothing back from CapQuest or Drydens regarding my CCA and CPR.

CCA request sent 16th Oct 2013 (postal order and recorded delivery on both)
CQ received 17th Oct 2013
DF received 19th Oct 2013
Sat 26th Oct 2013 I receive a county court Claim Form (issue Date 23rd Oct 2013).

CPR request sent Wed 30th Oct
MCOL acknowledged Tues 29th Oct (what would my deadline be for this, 14 or 28 days)

In short, it appears, I have so far received nothing of any significance.

[6strings]

Re: CQ Court Claim received - CCA not received

Yes I still have the letter. I will post it up late tonight when I get home.
It basically says, they (Lloyds) can't locate the original agreement, but are satisfied they have complied with CCA agreement as they never would have allowed me a credit card without one.

I do not remember ever sending a SAR. I will check tonight.

[mystery1]

Re: CQ Court Claim received - CCA not received

No, statements are NOT a response to a CCA request. They should have supplied you with a true copy of the credit agreement you allegedly signed when you opened the account, containing all the prescribed terms you are supposed to have agreed to at inception, as well as varied terms and a statement of account (not historical statements).

They also need to send a "a statement signed by or on behalf of the creditor" :tinysmile_twink_t2:

M1

[CleverClogs]

Re: CQ Court Claim received - CCA not received

Yes I still have the letter. I will post it up late tonight when I get home.
It basically says, they (Lloyds) can't locate the original agreement, but are satisfied they have complied with CCA agreement as they never would have allowed me a credit card without one.

Irrelevant.

Section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (link) is quite remarkably clear:

(6)If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1)—
(a)he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement

It is hardly new law - the banks have known about this obligation for decades.

If they cannot even cobble together a reconstituted "twue copy" from whatever they find lying about in the office, shoved down behind a filing cabinet or lining the office cat's litter tray, then they're entitled to bugger all.