**LOST** advice for tomorrow

[DigitalHead]

I am in court tomorrow, defending claim against me from Arrow Global

Restons are the solicitors

I have done my homework, got a good witness statement. Defence is based on statute barred. s127(3) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. failed to comply with s.77(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (amount is 5k approx)

I am defending myself, I would like any advice for the court proceedings tomorrow.

how nerve wracking can it be ? any advice on addressing the judge (I not sure how to refer the person, is it a judge ?)

I have read advice such as :

1.just give eye contact to the 'judge'
2.keep the emotion out of it all
3. be crystal clear and concise
4. presentable, speak only when asked to


any other advice ?

thanks

[jaguarsuk]

On arrival sign in with the usher and wait to be called.

My local court is small and the usher takes you through introducing both parties, but I have been to larger courts where you just go through yourself.

Once seated the judge will start things off, then the claimant will be asked to explain their claim and you to explain your arguments. Once ready the judge will rule on the matter and then you're done.

General rules of thumb be respectful to the judge, address them as sir, madam or judge and don't interrupt anyone.

It can be tempting because you know your position so well to try to get your point out, but if the judge or the other side speaks let them get to the end of what they say and then make your point.

Don't address the other side directly, all points should be made to the judge.

If they lie or say something inflammatory try to remain calm, don't rise to it and make your points accordingly.

You will be nervous if it's your first time in a court room, so don't worry if you are and just try to talk a little more slowly as you probably won't notice your nerves making you talk more quickly.

If you win after the judge has ruled ask for your costs of dealing with this, so your cost of travel for attending and if you have had to take time of work the cost of that, if you have taken a day of annual leave you'll miss out on later in the year why shouldn't you be compensated for it?

You may not get costs, but it doesn't hurt to ask.

[Diana M]

If you lose then ask the DJ for permission to Appeal before he leaves the room otherwise you will have to make an Application for permission to Appeal which will need to be granted before any Appeal can be heard.

Di

[DigitalHead]

Ok, I lost

Clearly from the outset the judge was not really interested in my statements, he only focused on what the claimant had to say, show.

He gave no creditability to my evidence and statements. It was clear to me quite soon that he was going to give judgement to the claimant

Lessons learned and for others :

1. In my case I think I allowed things to progress too far without challenging the likes of Restons/Arrow etc (I have had terrible poor health ever since they lodged claim at Northampton. I mean coincidentally. Not because of their action) For the past 18 months I have had one focus, get my health back together, without that is game over anyway. So, in my case I have been severely distracted. This was definitely a factor. Please to say I am getting my health back online
2. On that basis my advice is to engage these people (solicitors, debt collectors) as soon as possible. Quoting CCAs etc. Do not wait. Hit them with all the great advice from forums like this
3. I remained composed and professional, and for that I am satisfied with how succinct I was during the hearing. I kept the emotion out of it
4. I am pleased with the witness statement I put forward. It seemed to me the judge was not having any of it about Limitation Act 1980 section 29 paragraph 7 (there was a gap of 6+ years from the statements I had from 2002 to 2008). It seemed to me that no matter what I quoted from my witness statement, he was always nudging in favour of the claimant.
5. At the end, the solicitor and judge starting talking about another case in front of me. Which I found unprofessional really. Just my opinion. Clearly they work together on a regular basis.


The judge ordered full costs against me too, equal to around another 1k+

Around 400 of which he said was the court costs

I am sure the judge said I had 14 days to pay the full amount, is he just referring to the court costs ?

I thought one had 30 days to pay the full amount of debt ?

Not sure what I am going to do now. Just want to put this out of my head now.

Is it Restons that now send me the costs I have to pay, I mean the court costs ?



one final note, I did read in another post few days back, case very similar to mine, and he/she too lost. Think that kind of helped me today, to digest what has happened, even though I had put quite a lot of effort in recently . He/she too had clear credible evidence for the Limitation act.

I got the clear feeling the judge I saw today, he was not a fan of the Limitation act, he seemed to give small measure to Limitation Act 1980 section 29 paragraph

If you could please advise on any immediate options I have now, if any, and confirmation of time scales I have mentioned ?

[DigitalHead]

sorry Diana, I only read your post after the hearing

[jaguarsuk]

1. The judge ordered full costs against me too, equal to around another 1k+

2. Around 400 of which he said was the court costs

3. I am sure the judge said I had 14 days to pay the full amount, is he just referring to the court costs ?

4. I thought one had 30 days to pay the full amount of debt ?

5. Not sure what I am going to do now. Just want to put this out of my head now.

6. Is it Restons that now send me the costs I have to pay, I mean the court costs ?

Sorry to hear you lost.

I don't think it's that the judge isn't a fan of the Limitations Act 1980, more that section 29 relates to claims to "recover land or an advowson or any right of a mortgagee of personal property to bring a foreclosure action in respect of the property has accrued."

As you have used CCA requests and without knowing the entirety of the case I'm going to hazard a guess due to you mentioning s77 of CCA 1974 this was about a loan not land?

If it is indeed about a loan the judge didn't want to hear about it because it wasn't relevant to the claim not that he wasn't a fan.

S127 (3) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 was repealed in 2007 by by Consumer Credit Act 2006 (c. 14), ss. {15}, 70, 71(2), {Sch. 4} (with Sch. 3 para. 11); S.I. 2007/123, art. 3(2), Sch. 2 and would be a good reason the judge didn't want to entertain any argument you were trying to make referencing it.

All of that will have lost you credibility with the judge and hence it got harder to argue your points.

The judge and Solicitor are people too, they encounter each other and that sort of chit chat is no different to you chatting to a colleague from another department. I wouldn't read to much into it.

Answers to the questions you have posed:

1. You will receive a judgement order to confirm this figure
2. This is standard
3. He is referring to the whole amount in point 1. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.
4. Usually it's 28 days to settle the judgement, but the judge has ordered a 14 day a time limit.
5. Burying your head in the sand won't make this go away and I do understand the feeling, but time is against you.
6. No, the costs are included in the judgement you will receive (point 1)

Without leave to appeal your options would be to make an application for permission to appeal, to make payment of the judgement or if you can't afford to pay in one payment make an application to vary the order asking for a repayment by instalments.

If you decide to make an application for permission to appeal I'd advise that you seek proper legal advice. Diana M as you can see from her signature is an authorised representative of a firm, so await her response as she may give other further options.

[warwick65]

Hi

I think you do now need to decide what is the way forward - take it on the chin and pay up - or make an arrangement to pay which the claimants very often seem to accept
Or talk to a solicitor and decide if you want to try and appeal - however you need to find an error in law

If the agreement was opened pre 2007 and was incorrectly executed then S127(3) still applies, the repeal is only relevant for agreements after April 2007

[DigitalHead]

thank you for you support and replies, I could post my witness statement ?

On 22.1.18 I made a written request to the Claimants for a true copy of the credit agreement under s.77(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

I received a reply saying they did not recognise me on their system from the account details I had given them (which were correct)

this was a bank loan from 1997

think the total will come to around 6k with the costs. If I pay by installments, is interest added to the debt ?

I am curious about the 14 days, is this normal ?

is the 14 days from today, or when I receive notice from court ?

[jaguarsuk]

thank you for you support and replies, I could post my witness statement ?

On 22.1.18 I made a written request to the Claimants for a true copy of the credit agreement under s.77(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

I received a reply saying they did not recognise me on their system from the account details I had given them (which were correct)

this was a bank loan from 1997

think the total will come to around 6k with the costs. If I pay by installments, is interest added to the debt ?

I am curious about the 14 days, is this normal ?

is the 14 days from today, or when I receive notice from court ?

It’s a little late for the posting of documents really unless you intend to make an application for permission to appeal, but that would cost you money and have costs consequences potentially, which could significantly increase the amount owed.

What made you believe it was stature barred?

When you made the CCA request was this after filing your defence? January seems late in the timeline with you having a hearing today.

I can’t advise if interest is levied while instalments are paid, I have a defendant paying me by instalment and I’m not accruing interest while they pay me. It may be discretion of the claimant, but others will give a definitive answer.

1997 explains the use of 127 then as pre 2007.

The age of the debt and depending on how long it’s veeb outstanding might have meant that 14 days was chosen. It’s not uncommon.

14 days from the date on the order, but if you wanted to discuss payment by instalment you don’t have to wait for the order and can engage with the Claimant before the order arrives if you wish.

[DigitalHead]

When you made the CCA request was this after filing your defence? January seems late in the timeline with you having a hearing today.

thanks for detailed reply, with reference to above, was as I stated in point 1 in OP, I have been very ill for past 18 months, 2 years. My focus had to be on my health. I was that unwell there were times I thought I would not make it through 2017

[warwick65]

The limitations act is a complicated beast partly because so much depends on the cause of action. It is sadly not as simple as 6 years of no payments.

Diana M do you have any thoughts.

[MIKE770]

Diana M

[Caretaker237]

Just a couple of points regarding payment and costs from my recent experience. In my case I was told I had to pay the legal costs within 14 days, but the rest of the claim was to be paid within 28 days. In my case the Barrister actually conceded that she was happy for the costs to be paid within 28 days instead of 14 days. When the Judge agreed the Barrister had to point out to the Judge that she needed to write this on the Court Order, or I would have to pay the costs by default within 14 days. The Judge confessed that she didn't know that! I was expecting a judgment order confirming the amounts and deadlines, but they don't send them out anymore according to the Court which I spoke to one week after losing the claim. I had written down the exact amount but wanted written conformation before making the payment to ensure there wasn't any slip ups. When I phoned the Court to chase up the paper work they informed me that I wouldn't get one and to rely on what I had written down. That wasn't acceptable to me as I don't trust the court staff, some of them are idiots. So I contacted Restons by email asking them for confirmation of the total amount, and confirmation of their bank details for payment. They responded within an hour, no surprise, and sent a PDF invoice and confirmed all details. I then transferred the money. So it is standard to pay costs within 14 days, but not the rest of the amount owed. You have 28 days to pay the rest. It surprised me how messy and unclear the actual payment process was, and if the Barrister hadn't informed the Judge of the need to write on the court order - costs payable within 28 days, the I could have paid the whole amount on day 20 like I did, and still received a CCJ for not paying the cost amount within 14 days. People need to be made ware of this, its a joke really. Another thing I have never received is any paperwork from the court confirming that the court order was settled and paid within 28 days. I phoned them and they confirmed that they had been notified by Restons and the file was closed. Restons also sent me a PDF receipt and email confirmation that the payment had been made and received within 28 days. If a court orders you to pay money they should confirm it in writing. And they should conform in writing when payment is received, but apparently they don't do that now. Regards