**DISCONTINUED** CCJ and Charging Order from Restons on behalf of Cabot

[oxfordgirl]

Re: CCJ and Charging Order from Restons on behalf of Cabot

The court staff aren't legally trained.

However if you are happy to accept what they've told you then that's your choice.

As far as I'm aware the issue of 'part defend' will need to be addressed.

Did you also ask the court staff for advice on whether you should counterclaim for the PPI? I raised that potential issue earlier in your thread.

Di

He called the court again and was told that he is free to defend all the claim, so they are aware and that is what he intends to do.

We have requested the SAR from Halifax, but they obviously they have up to 40 days to respond, so we don't understand how to make a counterclaim when we have no figures. Can you advise on this please.

Many thanks for all your help.
oxfordgirl

[oxfordgirl]

Re: CCJ and Charging Order from Restons on behalf of Cabot

I have attached a draft copy of my husbands defence, all personal details removed.

We would very much appreciate any opinions and help, as we want to get it off tomorrow.
The Particulars of Claim fail to state what the agreement was for, it doesn't mention credit card or loan. The Date of Assignment is incorrect.
Neither Restons or Cabot have responded to his letters.

Checked with the court today about using the PPI as a counterclaim.
He would need to know how much he is claiming, as the costs of a counterclaim depend on this. With no response from the Halifax as yet on the SAR, he cannot proceed down this route.
If he changes the claim later down the line, there are extra costs involved anyway, which we cannot afford at this point.
So he intends to defend the claim as it is and pursue the PPI with Halifax separately later.
Many thanks.

[oxfordgirl]

Re: CCJ and Charging Order from Restons on behalf of Cabot

Have just received from Restons the attached letter in response to my husband's 31.14 request.

Can anybody please help how to proceed?

regards

oxfordgirl

[warwick65]

Re: CCJ and Charging Order from Restons on behalf of Cabot

Hi Oxfordgirl

What exactly did you ask for in your CPR 31.14

From what i can see , in reality the only thing you could ask for was the contract

Restons seem hell bent on being bloody minded these days

If you want other documents they would be sorted with a part 18 request but if I'm honest I would not be touching this with a barge pole, Restons are not nice and this is above £10K so you will (if you lose) end up paying their costs. If you win, they would have to pay your costs.

I don't want to scare you but these costs could be considerable and several thousand, I'm not sure what barristers charge but it can be £1000 per day!

By the way, for your defence , it is S78 for a credit card and S77 for a loan

[oxfordgirl]

Re: CCJ and Charging Order from Restons on behalf of Cabot

Hi Oxfordgirl

What exactly did you ask for in your CPR 31.14

From what i can see , in reality the only thing you could ask for was the contract

Restons seem hell bent on being bloody minded these days

If you want other documents they would be sorted with a part 18 request but if I'm honest I would not be touching this with a barge pole, Restons are not nice and this is above £10K so you will (if you lose) end up paying their costs. If you win, they would have to pay your costs.

I don't want to scare you but these costs could be considerable and several thousand, I'm not sure what barristers charge but it can be £1000 per day!

By the way, for your defence , it is S78 for a credit card and S77 for a loan

We asked for the Contract, Assignment, Default Notice and Formal Demand as advised.

The Particulars of Claim do not specify the nature of the contract, ie it does not state if it is a loan or credit card, only a contract between defendant and Halifax.
Details of the assignment is incorrect.

Advise please

Thank you

[warwick65]

Re: CCJ and Charging Order from Restons on behalf of Cabot

From what is available on the thread it appears you were told to send a CPR31.14 request and a link provided to the template. Unfortunately that is just what it is- a template to be amended. A CPR 31.14 request can only be used for documents mentioned in the particulars of claim.

You said that the date of assignment is completely wrong- just how wrong? days, weeks, months , years? The paperwork you have, was it for an absolute assignment between HBOS and Cabot?

I think , but that is it, just think - you must address the defend part of the claim in your defence even if it is a line that states during your acknowledgment you ticked defend part in error when it should have been defend all

I take it you have had the SAR back from HBOS which shows the actual assignment date or is this just a notice of assignment ?

I really can not offer any more opinions other than what I have already said - legal representation.

[oxfordgirl]

Re: CCJ and Charging Order from Restons on behalf of Cabot

The template was amended to our personal circumstances.

The discrepancy is over 2yrs. In that time we paid an agreed nominal amount.

My husband is intending to defend all the claim.

[warwick65]

Re: CCJ and Charging Order from Restons on behalf of Cabot

You seem to have it all under control. If however you did ask for items not in the poc with your Cpr request there seems to have been miscommunication.

Remember most of us on here,like staff at the courts are not legally qualified although some of us know certainly aspects. If you are up for fighting in court you have my admiration.

[charitynjw]

Re: CCJ and Charging Order from Restons on behalf of Cabot

Could you recheck the dates on the PoC?
Are the dates you posted earlier exactly per the PoC? (That is, do they exactly match the dates on the court claim PoC?)

[pt2537]

Re: CCJ and Charging Order from Restons on behalf of Cabot

Another interpretation of the scant POC is the Claimant might not know the history of what went on and when so couldn't plead it.

This claim will be allocated to the Fast Track where disclosure can be forced. In effect it's mandatory not discretionary (unlike Small Claims).

They've referred to the assignment so I would ask for the Deed of Assignment and the Notice of Assignment although they have not mentioned the Notice of Assignment so they may refuse.

They've mentioned a Default balance (the amount outstanding after the account was defaulted) but not actually mentioned the Default Notice so in theory you can't ask for the DN under CPR 31.14.

In fact I would be using Part 18 at this stage.

Di

They havent even mentioned a deed, they have merely pleaded "assigned" so they could argue they dont need to disclose that either.

[Amethyst]

Re: CCJ and Charging Order from Restons on behalf of Cabot

Have just received from Restons the attached letter in response to my husband's 31.14 request.

Can anybody please help how to proceed?

regards

oxfordgirl

This is a pretty standard response from Restons so I wouldn't be worrying about it Your defence is pretty standard non provision of documents despite requests and shoddy particulars and looks absolutely fine. Only thing is did you amend the bits in square brackets [ s 77 / s 78 ] as you have said the claimant hasn't pleaded the type of contract then you can leave both in without any issue but be better without the [ ] bits.

Restons will be fully aware they need to provide the Agreement. If they do that you can look again at your options in dealing with the case but for now it's a case of wait and see if they inform the court they wish to proceed.

I agree with you on the PPI issue for the moment, should all the documents appear and all be correct and valid then it might be worth counterclaiming / defending on the missold PPI point to assist with defence or negotiation of settlement, otherwise if this gets discontinued or stayed you could look at reclaiming through the Financial Ombudsman ( but it may only result in that portion of the debt being paid off so if the PPI would be less than the claim is for there isn't a great deal of point IF Cabot ditch the claim )

[Joanna C]

Re: CCJ and Charging Order from Restons on behalf of Cabot

They havent even mentioned a deed, they have merely pleaded "assigned" so they could argue they dont need to disclose that either.

Depends how you deal with it. Using CPR 31.14 in a Restons template claim is unlikely to be successful as they specialise in having particulars of claim which do not "mention" any documents. Other ways of dealing with them though.

I usually get an order for the Deeds of Assignment to be disclosed at this stage - Restons in particular always require an on notice application.

In these debt purchaser claims the Deeds of Assignment should be the number one priority as they are relevant for both regulated and unregulated claims.

[Joanna C]

Re: CCJ and Charging Order from Restons on behalf of Cabot

Restons, Howard Cohen, Mortimer Clarke et al usually issue claims without any documentation.

The longer you let them have to obtain or "reconstitute" documentation the weaker your defence becomes. The quicker you force them into a position where they have to disclose the documentation the easier it is to force them to discontinue or make a mistake. Restons, Howard Cohen, Mortimer Clarke etc will happily stay cases for months because it is giving their client the time to provide the evidence they should have had before they issued the claim in the first place,

[Diana M]

Re: CCJ and Charging Order from Restons on behalf of Cabot

They havent even mentioned a deed, they have merely pleaded "assigned" so they could argue they dont need to disclose that either.

Which is why I suggested Part 18 questions would assist earlier on in this thread in post # 17 on 28th April >

Another interpretation of the scant POC is the Claimant might not know the history of what went on and when so couldn't plead it.

. . . . In fact I would be using Part 18 at this stage.

Di

Di

[Diana M]

Re: CCJ and Charging Order from Restons on behalf of Cabot

I agree with you on the PPI issue for the moment, should all the documents appear and all be correct and valid then it might be worth counterclaiming / defending on the missold PPI point to assist with defence or negotiation of settlement, otherwise if this gets discontinued or stayed you could look at reclaiming through the Financial Ombudsman ( but it may only result in that portion of the debt being paid off so if the PPI would be less than the claim is for there isn't a great deal of point IF Cabot ditch the claim )

The only downside to that is if any PPI reclaim has the potential to be successful and possibly exceed the disputed amount claimed in these proceedings (or make a serious dent in the amount claimed) but disclosure of the evidence is not sought/pleaded/counterclaimed at an early stage (after actively seeking disclosure of the Ts & Ts of any PPI) then a latter-day claim via the FOS against the original creditor who's not party to these proceedings may not prevent a CCJ or a subsequent Charging Order or an Attachment of Earnings (if appropriate) or any other enforcement option in the meantime (by the Claimant who is not the original creditor) unless the CCJ is paid in full within a month of the judgement.

I mention "at an early stage" because this claim will be allocated to the Fast Track where (trust me) lawyers argue over costs when new legal arguments are introduced late in the day.

I'm in favour of being proactive not reactive.

Di