CIti Cards - contacting them/ or just start paying them

[Tya]

Hi All,

I'm just enquiring and hope this isn't a silly question.

I have an outstanding balance on a Citi card for which I stopped paying last year as they told me to and now have a default on my CF. ( fair enough)

Debt got sold to Cabot, ( which I'm dealing with) and now I was wondering if I should contact Citi to start repayments again, or should I just start paying them?

Would this be a silly thing to do as the interest was frozen and Cabot are now adding interest at an alarming rate!


Thanks

[Tya]

Re: CIti Cards - contacting them/ or just start paying them

Anyone?

[WendyB]

Re: CIti Cards - contacting them/ or just start paying them

I don't think DCAs are allowed to add on interest. Do Cabot actually own this debt or just collecting for Citi? Might help if you gave us a bit more background about the situation. Why did you stop paying? Is there a CCJ etc etc

[Tya]

Re: CIti Cards - contacting them/ or just start paying them

I don't think DCAs are allowed to add on interest. Do Cabot actually own this debt or just collecting for Citi? Might help if you gave us a bit more background about the situation. Why did you stop paying? Is there a CCJ etc etc

Hi Wendy,

Cabot sent me a letter stating that they had bought the debt from Citi. In the same initial letter was a ' so called' NOA from Citi. This looked fake and was in the same envelope.

I CCA's Cabot, but they returned my PO stating that they did not have the CCA, but will try an locate it for me. There is no CCJ, only a default for which I received from Citi last year.

I stopped paying Citi as they said that they would no longer except £15 a month from me. Not trying to get out of paying, but Cabot seem to be doing things the wrong way and do not wan to deal with them especially as the interest was frozen.

[Caspar]

Re: CIti Cards - contacting them/ or just start paying them

Hi Wendy,

Cabot sent me a letter stating that they had bought the debt from Citi. In the same initial letter was a ' so called' NOA from Citi. This looked fake and was in the same envelope.

I CCA's Cabot, but they returned my PO stating that they did not have the CCA, but will try an locate it for me. There is no CCJ, only a default for which I received from Citi last year.

I stopped paying Citi as they said that they would no longer except £15 a month from me. Not trying to get out of paying, but Cabot seem to be doing things the wrong way and do not wan to deal with them especially as the interest was frozen.

If Cabot have bought the debt they have full rights to collect it in a way they see fit. A question for others here - if there's no CCA can the debt be legally enforced?

Stopping paying is likely to lead to one of two things. Firstly they'll give up and sell it on again to another DCA having added ridiculous charges and recorded default against your credit and bombarded you with letters. Secondly they might, if it is enforceable, pursue you through to court. I'd be inclined to cover your back a bit. Fill in an IE sheet (template one on here is good) - let us have a look at it. Send to Cabot with a letter stating you want the interest frozen and an explanation of their fees to date, and offering a reasonable repayment that you can afford. If you do this, no matter what they say, if it went to court you've done all you can - they can't get money you don't have.

I'll be interested to see what others have to say about enforceability in the absence of any CCA though.

[Tya]

Re: CIti Cards - contacting them/ or just start paying them

If Cabot have bought the debt they have full rights to collect it in a way they see fit. A question for others here - if there's no CCA can the debt be legally enforced?

Stopping paying is likely to lead to one of two things. Firstly they'll give up and sell it on again to another DCA having added ridiculous charges and recorded default against your credit and bombarded you with letters. Secondly they might, if it is enforceable, pursue you through to court. I'd be inclined to cover your back a bit. Fill in an IE sheet (template one on here is good) - let us have a look at it. Send to Cabot with a letter stating you want the interest frozen and an explanation of their fees to date, and offering a reasonable repayment that you can afford. If you do this, no matter what they say, if it went to court you've done all you can - they can't get money you don't have.

I'll be interested to see what others have to say about enforceability in the absence of any CCA though.

Hi,

Already have a default on this account so I'm very much aware that they cannot put another default on the same account.

I haven't paid any monies to cabot as I do not have the CCA and I believe I have the right to do so, before making any payments.

Thanks for thwe advice on doing the I/E sheet. But, if I do so now, that means I will be paying without the CCA?

Hopefully someone can shed some light on the CCA situation...

[WendyB]

Re: CIti Cards - contacting them/ or just start paying them

Yes you have the legal right to the CCA, but that won't change the fact that you still owe the money, it just may mean that the debt is unenforceable. It won't make it go away and it won't stop them from chasing you. Plus, in order to show/prove unenforceability you would have to be prepared for them to take you to court, as unenforceability can only be used as a defence. The climate at the moment post-Carey etc makes it, IMO, dodgy ground to go to court with and defend on. But I am not a CCA expert, others would be better to advise you on that. And although they cannot enter another default against the same debt, they can take you to court and you could end up with a CCJ.

Have you sent SAR to Cabot? This would give you all data they hold on you and would show what charges/interest has been added on. It would/should also produce all NOAs etc to prove that Cabot do actually own the debt. Would probably be worth sending SAR to Citi too.

[Tya]

Re: CIti Cards - contacting them/ or just start paying them

Yes you have the legal right to the CCA, but that won't change the fact that you still owe the money, it just may mean that the debt is unenforceable. It won't make it go away and it won't stop them from chasing you. Plus, in order to show/prove unenforceability you would have to be prepared for them to take you to court, as unenforceability can only be used as a defence. The climate at the moment post-Carey etc makes it, IMO, dodgy ground to go to court with and defend on. But I am not a CCA expert, others would be better to advise you on that. And although they cannot enter another default against the same debt, they can take you to court and you could end up with a CCJ.

Have you sent SAR to Cabot? This would give you all data they hold on you and would show what charges/interest has been added on. It would/should also produce all NOAs etc to prove that Cabot do actually own the debt. Would probably be worth sending SAR to Citi too.

Thanks for advice, I do hope someone can give me a definite answer re CCA.

SAR is a good idea for Cabot, already did the SAR with Citi last year.

How do I stop the interest, is this possible with Cabot?

[Caspar]

Re: CIti Cards - contacting them/ or just start paying them

Wendy, don't take this as gospel truth - it's copied from the CAG website who I believe have a decent reputation. It may answer the question about the CCA.

Guidelines - Requests For An Original Agreement Under The Consumer Credit Act 1974

A debt becomes unenforceable under the CCA if a creditor does not supply a true copy of the signed credit agreement within 12 working days of it being requested.

The debt remains unenforceable for as long as the creditor fails to produce the signed credit agreement – this means if they produce the agreement some months down the line, they are quite within their rights to enforce it. They do not need to take any further action to enforce the debt. A debtor cannot take any action against the creditor for failing to produce the signed credit agreement within the prescribed time, because that is up to the agencies that the offence has been reported to. Any sanctions that may be imposed are at the discretion of these agencies, and it is not a matter that the debtor can take to the civil court.

If a CCJ has already been entered against a debt, then there is no point in requesting the agreement under the CCA, if your intention is to argue that the debt is unenforceable, since the debt has already been enforced. You can however request a true copy of the original signed credit agreement if you wish to check original terms and conditions etc. If they do not supply it then your only recourse is to report them to the aforementioned agencies. It would be very difficult to prove that they didn’t have the agreement at the time judgment was entered.

[Tya]

Re: CIti Cards - contacting them/ or just start paying them

[quote=Caspar;176476]Wendy, don't take this as gospel truth - it's copied from the CAG website who I believe have a decent reputation. It may answer the question about the CCA.

Guidelines - Requests For An Original Agreement Under The Consumer Credit Act 1974

A debt becomes unenforceable under the CCA if a creditor does not supply a true copy of the signed credit agreement within 12 working days of it being requested.

The debt remains unenforceable for as long as the creditor fails to produce the signed credit agreement – this means if they produce the agreement some months down the line, they are quite within their rights to enforce it. They do not need to take any further action to enforce the debt. A debtor cannot take any action against the creditor for failing to produce the signed credit agreement within the prescribed time, because that is up to the agencies that the offence has been reported to. Any sanctions that may be imposed are at the discretion of these agencies, and it is not a matter that the debtor can take to the civil court.

If a CCJ has already been entered against a debt, then there is no point in requesting the agreement under the CCA, if your intention is to argue that the debt is unenforceable, since the debt has already been enforced. You can however request a true copy of the original signed credit agreement if you wish to check original terms and conditions etc. If they do not supply it then your only recourse is to report them to the aforementioned agencies. It would be very difficult to prove that they didn’t have the agreement at the time judgment was entered.

Hi,

Thanks for that. Curly had said it is LEGAL for Cabot to demand payments from me, even withouht the CCA. There is no CCJ on the account, just a default, but I'm now looking to pay Citi direct. Hopefully I will succeed. Wish me luck.

[Caspar]

Re: CIti Cards - contacting them/ or just start paying them

Good luck!

[Tya]

Re: CIti Cards - contacting them/ or just start paying them

Well, I called Citi, and pretended to be calling on behalf of a friend... Told them of the situation and said can 'she' make payments from online banking to Citi and will they except the payments. They said yes? Sounds abit too easy. So ill call them again to double check..

Wish I could be speaking to someone who had an English accent though....

[WendyB]

Re: CIti Cards - contacting them/ or just start paying them

Wendy, don't take this as gospel truth - it's copied from the CAG website who I believe have a decent reputation. It may answer the question about the CCA.

Guidelines - Requests For An Original Agreement Under The Consumer Credit Act 1974

A debt becomes unenforceable under the CCA if a creditor does not supply a true copy of the signed credit agreement within 12 working days of it being requested.

The debt remains unenforceable for as long as the creditor fails to produce the signed credit agreement – this means if they produce the agreement some months down the line, they are quite within their rights to enforce it. They do not need to take any further action to enforce the debt. A debtor cannot take any action against the creditor for failing to produce the signed credit agreement within the prescribed time, because that is up to the agencies that the offence has been reported to. Any sanctions that may be imposed are at the discretion of these agencies, and it is not a matter that the debtor can take to the civil court.

If a CCJ has already been entered against a debt, then there is no point in requesting the agreement under the CCA, if your intention is to argue that the debt is unenforceable, since the debt has already been enforced. You can however request a true copy of the original signed credit agreement if you wish to check original terms and conditions etc. If they do not supply it then your only recourse is to report them to the aforementioned agencies. It would be very difficult to prove that they didn’t have the agreement at the time judgment was entered.

Caspar, I know what you're saying above. My point was that they would probably still chase for the debt anyway, that's how DCAs work. Also, by stopping payments entirely, Tya would risk being taken to court, where the onus would be on her to prove uneforceability, which as we all knwo, in the present climate, can be difficult. So could ultimately end up with a CCJ etc etc, which would make matters worse than they are now and trash the credit file even more.

Thanks for the post anyway. I won't make any comment about CAG being well respected or not. We have excellent threads/stickies on here covering CCA, and some very good resident CCA specialists (of which I am not one lol).

[Tya]

Re: CIti Cards - contacting them/ or just start paying them

Caspar, I know what you're saying above. My point was that they would probably still chase for the debt anyway, that's how DCAs work. Also, by stopping payments entirely, Tya would risk being taken to court, where the onus would be on her to prove uneforceability, which as we all knwo, in the present climate, can be difficult. So could ultimately end up with a CCJ etc etc, which would make matters worse than they are now and trash the credit file even more.

Thanks for the post anyway. I won't make any comment about CAG being well respected or not. We have excellent threads/stickies on here covering CCA, and some very good resident CCA specialists (of which I am not one lol).

Hi Wendy,

Thanks for your response. Unfortunately I did stop payments to Citi, wish I hadn't now. But I know more now than I did then. I have not made any payments to Cabot. Its a tricky one, but I've contacte CAB to get some advice to see what is my best option.

Also, I contacted Citi ( pretended to be someone else) and told them if payments were made through online banking, this would be ok. They said yes?

[WendyB]

Re: CIti Cards - contacting them/ or just start paying them

Well, I would be inclined to pay Citi direct, and tell Cabot to bog off, however if they no longer own the debt then this might cause problems, I'm not really sure, as I said, I'm not the CCA expert. If you SAR Cabot and Citi then you will know for definite who owns the debt and who you should be paying.

I'll get someone else to have a look in at your thread , see what they advise.