Court Claim - Arrow Global / HSBC - 18-7-2017

[warwick65]

Re: Court Claim - Arrow Global / HSBC - 18-7-2017

Sorry just read back
they do know your address
So i would still write to them and tell them that they have made a serious error which you will be bringing to the attention of the court in sending responses to the wrong address and that you view this as unreasonable conduct


Leave the detail for your WS but i would include the bit in your defence about AG not believing they are the creditor

Is it AG or AG ( Guernsey)

[musicmonkey]

Re: Court Claim - Arrow Global / HSBC - 18-7-2017

Sorry just read back
they do know your address
So i would still write to them and tell them that they have made a serious error which you will be bringing to the attention of the court in sending responses to the wrong address and that you view this as unreasonable conduct


Leave the detail for your WS but i would include the bit in your defence about AG not believing they are the creditor

Is it AG or AG ( Guernsey)

I've not lived there since 2013 and I've lived in other places since. But I did put my most recent address on and also the most recent address was the one on the claim form, so not sure where the old address comes into it.

It is just arrow global limited. Not Guernsey. It's the Manchester address.

Should I write to them now then in reply to that letter? Just as simple as you wrote it?
Thanks

[dogtired]

Re: Court Claim - Arrow Global / HSBC - 18-7-2017

so what should I do? I have been sent a claim form from the county court business centre. In the Arrow letter it said they were suspending collecting any money - does that mean it goes away?

ps. thanks for the quick reply!

Please follow the advice of the others as it does look as if they have issued a court claim . Arrow seem to be trying this tactic now, as yet they hadn't tried this with me but if they do I know I can come here for advice. Good luck x

[charitynjw]

Re: Court Claim - Arrow Global / HSBC - 18-7-2017

SAR

Registration Number: Z5734875Date Registered: 21 September 2001 Registration Expires: 20 September 2017
Data Controller: HSBC BANK PLC
Address:

8 CANADA SQUARE
LONDON
E14 5HQ

Representative Name:

GROUP DATA PROTECTION MANAGER

http://legalbeagles.info/library/gui...ccess-request/

[Diana M]

Re: Court Claim - Arrow Global / HSBC - 18-7-2017

28 days from service or 33 from issue date (they give you an extra 5 days from issue to try and make sure it gets to you ) ... we usually suggest that the defence is filed by 22 days tho' xx

Why would you advise a Defendant to file their Defence after only 22 days (i.e. eleven days before the deadline) when they may find that the Claimant produces documents requested under CPR 31.14 and/or documents in response to their s 77-79 CCA Request after it's been filed?

If that happens (and disclosure or admission of no documents is usually revealed close to the deadline) then the Defendant is faced with the possibility of needing to file an Amended Defence which requires a Application to the court for permission to amend (with costs involved) or an attempt to reach an agreement with the other party to consent to an Amended Defence.

Di

[Kati]

Re: Court Claim - Arrow Global / HSBC - 18-7-2017

Why would you advise a Defendant to file their Defence after only 22 days (i.e. eleven days before the deadline) when they may find that the Claimant produces documents requested under CPR 31.14 and/or documents in response to their s 77-79 CCA Request after it's been filed?

If that happens (and disclosure or admission of no documents is usually revealed close to the deadline) then the Defendant is faced with the possibility of needing to file an Amended Defence which requires a Application to the court for permission to amend (with costs involved) or an attempt to reach an agreement with the other party to consent to an Amended Defence.

Di

my mistake ... I meant 33 (had a screaming three year old on my knee at the time)

- - - Updated - - -

sorted it now tho'

[musicmonkey]

Re: Court Claim - Arrow Global / HSBC - 18-7-2017

Hi all.
Thanks for the help so far. I am going to draft together the defence today (so far I have had no more correspondence from Arrow Global nor any correspondence from Shoosmiths)
I am away this weekend but I can take my laptop with me and fill in details / file the final defence then when it is due on 20th august (33 days from court issue date of 18th july)

I'll post the draft on here as I would be really grateful of some advice / help.

[musicmonkey]

Re: Court Claim - Arrow Global / HSBC - 18-7-2017

Hi. I have filled in the details on the defence statement, please can you have a read and let me know if it is ok? There are some bits I am unsure of.

In the Northampton County Court Business Centre

Claim No: [XXXXX]

Arrow Global Limited

Claimant

And

musicmonkey

Defendant

DEFENCE

1.I received the claim XXXX from the Northampton County Court Business Centre on 20th July 2017 (this is the date the letter arrived, issue date is 18th)
2.Each and every allegation in the Claimants statement of case is denied unless specifically admitted in this Defence.
3.This claim appears to be for a Credit Card agreement (it doesnt state anywhere that it is a credit card agreement, but I am pretty sure that is what this is for) regulated under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.
4.It is [admitted/denied] (I remember having a credit card and using is, so i guess I put admitted?) that the Defendant has previously entered into an agreement with [Original Creditor /Claimant] HSBC Bank plc (do i also put Arrow Global here?) for provision of credit.
5.The Claimants statement of case fails to give adequate information to enable me to properly assess my position with regards the claim.
6.The Claimant’s Particulars of Claim fail to state when the agreement was entered into.
7.[The Defendant contends the alleged debt is statute barred by virtue of Section 5 of the Limitations Act 1980 in that no payment or acknowledgment has been made for over 6 years] - i am pretty sure it is not statute barred, but that it will be fairly close to it (i dont have any records from back then and my SAR hasnt come through yet)
8.The Claimants statement of case states that the account was assigned from HSBC Bank plc to Arrow Global Limited on 21st November 2004. The Defendant does not recall receiving notice of this assignment.
9.It is denied that HSBC Bank plc served any Default notice on the Defendant pursuant to s87 Consumer Credit Act 1974. The Claimant is required to prove that a compliant Default Notice was served upon the Defendant.
10.On the 22nd July 2017 I sent a request for inspection of documents mentioned in the claimant’s statement of case under Civil Procedure Rule 31.14 to Shoosmiths LLP. I requested the Claimant provide copies of the [Agreement, Default Notice and Notice of Assignment].
11.Shoosmiths LLP has not sent any of these documents to me.
12.On the 22nd July 2017 I sent a formal request for a copy of the original agreement to Arrow Global Limited pursuant to section [77 or 78] of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 along with the statutory £1 fee.
13.The Claimant has failed to comply with [s77 (1) / s 78 (1)] Consumer Credit Act 1974 and by virtue of [s77 (4) / s 78 (6)] Consumer Credit Act 1974 cannot enforce the agreement.
14. I have asked the Claimant if we may agree to extend the time period allowed for filing of my defence pending receipt of documents (as allowed under CPR 15.5), but they have declined. [The Parties agreed to an extension to the time period allowed for filing of my defence under CPR 15.5 to allow the Claimants additional time to produce the relevant documentation to evidence their claim, however they have failed to do so.] - i presume this needs to come out, the only letters sent are the two initially advised to Arrow and Shoosmiths?
15.Under Civil Procedure Rule 16.5 (4) Where the claim includes a money claim, a defendant shall be taken to require that any allegation relating to the amount of money claimed be proved unless he expressly admits the allegation. Therefore, it is expected that the Claimant be required to prove the allegation that the money is owed as claimed.
16.I request the court orders the Claimants to provide the necessary documentation in order for me to fully plead my case else the Claim should stand struck out.
17.In the event that the relevant documents are received from the Claimants I will then be in a position to amend my defence, and would ask that the Claimants bear the costs of the amendment.
18.It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief as claimed or at all.
Statement of Truth
The Defendant believes that the facts stated in this Defence are true.
Signed ________________________________
Dated ________________________________

Can you advise how the above looks?
Also,when / where do I reference to the letter i got back from Arrow (see above posts, that said they were not the claimant and also that they sent to an old address (3 years+)
Let me know of any other info I have missed off - it would be greatly appreciated.

I need to submit by defence on 20th august.
Thanks

[musicmonkey]

Re: Court Claim - Arrow Global / HSBC - 18-7-2017

Hi. I know people are busy and I really do appreciate all the help, I'm just a little unsure of what to write in the defence, see my post from this morning above.
Thanks

[dogtired]

Re: Court Claim - Arrow Global / HSBC - 18-7-2017

Bump

[warwick65]

Re: Court Claim - Arrow Global / HSBC - 18-7-2017

Hi
So for point 3 I would just remove the word credit card - why give them more info
Point 4 , maybe a more generic, it is admitted the defendant had previously had financial dealing with HSBC ( remove the bits in brackets) do not mention AG

For points 11 and 12 did AG claim they were not the creditor - if so you could add a line, the claimant denied they were the creditor and therefore is unable to bring the claim. The claimant is request to provide proof of their entitlement by providing the deed of assignment

Point 14- in your CPR request did you use the template here which asks them to tell you if they need more time
If so you could replace with
the claimants solicitors were asked if they needed more time to produce documents but failed to reply
[MENTION=5553]charitynjw[/MENTION] [MENTION=6]Amethyst[/MENTION]

[musicmonkey]

Re: Court Claim - Arrow Global / HSBC - 18-7-2017

Hello? Can anyone help with my defence above?

[Amethyst]

Re: Court Claim - Arrow Global / HSBC - 18-7-2017

Hi
So for point 3 I would just remove the word credit card - why give them more info
Point 4 , maybe a more generic, it is admitted the defendant had previously had financial dealing with HSBC ( remove the bits in brackets) do not mention AG

For points 11 and 12 did AG claim they were not the creditor - if so you could add a line, the claimant denied they were the creditor and therefore is unable to bring the claim. The claimant is request to provide proof of their entitlement by providing the deed of assignment

Point 14- in your CPR request did you use the template here which asks them to tell you if they need more time
If so you could replace with
the claimants solicitors were asked if they needed more time to produce documents but failed to reply
[MENTION=5553]charitynjw[/MENTION] [MENTION=6]Amethyst[/MENTION]

Have you looked at these bits ?

I'll have a look through too though.

[Amethyst]

Re: Court Claim - Arrow Global / HSBC - 18-7-2017

Yip Warwick has covered it all, I've only slotted bits in to place. I've left in the SB section - as you think it is close, and the onus of proof is upon them, so as it isn't your only defence it can stay in, incase it's needed later. I've left 77 and 78 in as the claimant's havent said if it is a loan or a credit card, so best to cover both options. Check through it thoroughly and make sure it does fit your circumstances.


1.I received the claim XXXX from the Northampton County Court Business Centre on 20th July 2017, issued on 18th July 2017.
2.Each and every allegation in the Claimants statement of case is denied unless specifically admitted in this Defence.
3.This claim appears to be for an agreement regulated under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (CCA 1974)
4.It is admitted that the Defendant has previously entered into an agreement/s with HSBC Bank plc for provision of credit, however I am uncertain what this claim relates to and have not had contact with HSBC for many years.
5.The Claimants statement of case fails to give adequate information to enable me to properly assess my position with regards the claim.
6.The Claimant’s Particulars of Claim fail to state when the agreement was entered into.
7.The Defendant contends the alleged debt would be statute barred by virtue of Section 5 of the Limitations Act 1980 in that no payment or acknowledgment has been made for over 6 years.
8.The Claimants statement of case states that the account was assigned from HSBC Bank plc to Arrow Global Limited on 21st November 2004. The Defendant does not recall receiving notice of this assignment.
9.It is denied that HSBC Bank plc served any Default notice on the Defendant pursuant to s87 Consumer Credit Act 1974. The Claimant is required to prove that a compliant Default Notice was served upon the Defendant.
10.On the 22nd July 2017 I sent a request for inspection of documents mentioned in the claimant’s statement of case under Civil Procedure Rule 31.14 to Shoosmiths LLP. I requested the Claimant provide copies of the Agreement, Default Notice and Notice of Assignment.
11.Shoosmiths LLP has not sent any of these documents to me.
12.On the 22nd July 2017 I sent a formal request for a copy of the original agreement to Arrow Global Limited pursuant to sections 77 or 78 of the CCA 1974 along with the statutory £1 fee.
13.The Claimant has failed to comply with s77 (1) / s 78 (1) CCA 1974 and by virtue of s77 (4) / s 78 (6) CCA 1974 cannot enforce the agreement.
14: In response to the request detailed in paragraph 12, the Claimant has denied they are the creditor as envisaged by the CCA 1974.
15: I would contend that the Claimant is the creditor pursuant to s.189 of the CCA 1974 and as such are obliged to comply with my request.
16: The Claimant is requested to provide evidence that they hold the rights of the alleged agreement, and the authority to bring this claim, by providing the deed of assignment.
17. I have asked the Claimant if we may agree to extend the time period allowed for filing of my defence pending receipt of documents (as allowed under CPR 15.5), but they have failed to respond to this request.
18.Under Civil Procedure Rule 16.5 (4) Where the claim includes a money claim, a defendant shall be taken to require that any allegation relating to the amount of money claimed be proved unless he expressly admits the allegation. Therefore, it is expected that the Claimant be required to prove the allegation that the money is owed as claimed.
19.I request the court orders the Claimants to provide the necessary documentation in order for me to fully plead my case else the Claim should stand struck out.
20.In the event that the relevant documents are received from the Claimants I will then be in a position to amend my defence, and would ask that the Claimants bear the costs of the amendment.
21.It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief as claimed or at all.
Statement of Truth
The Defendant believes that the facts stated in this Defence are true.
Signed ________________________________
Dated ________________________________

[musicmonkey]

Re: Court Claim - Arrow Global / HSBC - 18-7-2017

Hi
So for point 3 I would just remove the word credit card - why give them more info
Point 4 , maybe a more generic, it is admitted the defendant had previously had financial dealing with HSBC ( remove the bits in brackets) do not mention AG

For points 11 and 12 did AG claim they were not the creditor - if so you could add a line, the claimant denied they were the creditor and therefore is unable to bring the claim. The claimant is request to provide proof of their entitlement by providing the deed of assignment

Point 14- in your CPR request did you use the template here which asks them to tell you if they need more time
If so you could replace with
the claimants solicitors were asked if they needed more time to produce documents but failed to reply
[MENTION=5553]charitynjw[/MENTION] [MENTION=6]Amethyst[/MENTION]

Sorry, I didn't get a notification about this before my previous post. Really sorry, I feel so rude.
I'm going to have a read through now and amend.
Yes arrow have written to me and stated they are not the creditor utility will do their best to help. (I wrote their reply earlier)
Also, I used both templates initially recommended and I did not amend them from the legal beagles site.

- - - Updated - - -

I also forgot to say, when they wrote to me, they wrote to a very old address. This address was not where the claim was sent to nor was it the address I put on the letters to AG and Shops moths.

Should I mention this in the defence?