Help in defending a claim by Hoist & Howard Cohen in the CC Business Centre

[colemnic]

Hi, learned friends!
I'm really hoping you can help me as I'm now not sure what to do! Below is a summary of what's happened to date ... I'm a bit lost now as have had conflicting advice as now want to make sure I take the next correct step.

Thanks in advance!


1. 26/04/2017: received a N1SDT claim form from County Court Business Centre, Northampton which details the claimant as Hoist Portfolio Holding 2 Ltd and also Howard Cohen And Co, Leeds (assume solicitors).!
This is related to a debt for Barclaycard of £11k which was originally taken out approximately 3 or 4 years ago.
2. Took advice from another forum
3. 04/05/2017: Acknowledge Service with intention to defend within 14 days
4. 04/05/2017: Sent CPR 31.14 to solicitors
5. 04/05/2017: Sent a request for a copy of the agreement under Section 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act to the claimant
6. 25/05/2017: Defence Submitted & Received
7. 29/06/2017: Notification of allocation to fast track and DQ sent to me
8. Got advice from MSE forum who suggested i should continue to defend but as a non proven debt. They suggested I come here to get further advice!

[Amethyst]

Re: Help in defending a claim by Hoist & Howard Cohen in the CC Business Centre

Sound good so far

I take it you have had no copies of documents requested in the response to either CPR 31.14 or CCA request and your defence is standard 'no document/evidence' ?

Would you be able to post a copy of your defence.

As the barclaycard was only taken out 3/4 years ago it is going to be likely they will come up with the documents at some point, so if you can work a bit tactically it would probably be advantageous. Have you completed the DQ as yet ? Might be worth asking for an unless order for compliance with your CPR 31.14 request.

[MENTION=87380]Diana M[/MENTION];

[colemnic]

Re: Help in defending a claim by Hoist & Howard Cohen in the CC Business Centre

Thanks @Amethyst

Correct, the only correspondence I've had after my requests was from "Robinson Way": they have placed my account on hold pending receipt of this documentation.

I've attached a 'blacked' copy of my defence.

Not completed the DQ yet ... was a bit unsure what to do at this point and what to fill in!!

[pt2537]

Re: Help in defending a claim by Hoist & Howard Cohen in the CC Business Centre

Sound good so far

I take it you have had no copies of documents requested in the response to either CPR 31.14 or CCA request and your defence is standard 'no document/evidence' ?

Would you be able to post a copy of your defence.

As the barclaycard was only taken out 3/4 years ago it is going to be likely they will come up with the documents at some point, so if you can work a bit tactically it would probably be advantageous. Have you completed the DQ as yet ? Might be worth asking for an unless order for compliance with your CPR 31.14 request.

@Diana M;

I agree, the approach advocated by some in that you just fire off a defence and then wait til they give you documents has just bitten one consumer on the ass, when the case came before the Court, the judge ripped them apart and said that the consumer shouldnt have waited, they have the option of making an application if they want to documents, and they should have done so. By choosing not to and attending court to defend the Claim the Judge said that they would have no choice but to adjourn, and costs to be dealt with at the next hearing, but it was made clear by the judge that there were cost consequences even if they were to win.

I know it costs £255 but the Courts including the Court of Appeal has said consumers acting as LIPs wont get any special treatment. So maybe its time to change tact.

[colemnic]

Re: Help in defending a claim by Hoist & Howard Cohen in the CC Business Centre

I agree, the approach advocated by some in that you just fire off a defence and then wait til they give you documents has just bitten one consumer on the ass, when the case came before the Court, the judge ripped them apart and said that the consumer shouldnt have waited, they have the option of making an application if they want to documents, and they should have done so. By choosing not to and attending court to defend the Claim the Judge said that they would have no choice but to adjourn, and costs to be dealt with at the next hearing, but it was made clear by the judge that there were cost consequences even if they were to win.

I know it costs £255 but the Courts including the Court of Appeal has said consumers acting as LIPs wont get any special treatment. So maybe its time to change tact.

Thanks, so are you saying go with the unless order application? If so, what does that entail & what are the outcomes?

[Amethyst]

Re: Help in defending a claim by Hoist & Howard Cohen in the CC Business Centre

This is a very basic overview http://legalbeagles.info/forums/show...order-at-court

[pt2537]

Re: Help in defending a claim by Hoist & Howard Cohen in the CC Business Centre

Thanks, so are you saying go with the unless order application? If so, what does that entail & what are the outcomes?

Everything has risks, and making an application is no different, it is a risky approach, but what are the alternatives, if you do nothing and then end up in Court before a judge who takes a hostile approach to your case you could find an order being made which sanctions you for no making the app sooner.

The truth is, there is no definitive right or wrong answer, and i cannot advise you what to do with such limited info. I was merely pointing out the possible events that could happen if you dont make the application for inspection of the documents they have not provided.

i would stress though, before making an application it would be proper to place the opponents on notice you are intending to apply if they dont give you the answers and / or documents you have asked for. you should give htem one final chance

[colemnic]

Re: Help in defending a claim by Hoist & Howard Cohen in the CC Business Centre

Thanks, I'm really struggling to figure out what the best next step is.

You mentioned not being able to advise with this limited info ... what would you need in order to advise more comprehensively?

Appreciate your help!

[pt2537]

Re: Help in defending a claim by Hoist & Howard Cohen in the CC Business Centre

I think the question you have to ask is what is the importance of these documents to your case and why do you need them. If they are irrelevant or on the outside edge of your case then the application may not be necessary, but equally if the Claim is for a breach of contract and the Claimant has not pleaded particulars of the breach then it may well be necessary to get a copy of the contract on which the Claim is based.

Its really a judgment call. Ame has linked to a thread on applications to give you an overview.

[Diana M]

Re: Help in defending a claim by Hoist & Howard Cohen in the CC Business Centre

Below is a summary of what's happened to date ... I'm a bit lost now as have had conflicting advice as now want to make sure I take the next correct step.

. . .
1. 26/04/2017: received a N1SDT claim form from County Court Business Centre, Northampton which details the claimant as Hoist Portfolio Holding 2 Ltd and also Howard Cohen And Co, Leeds (assume solicitors).!
This is related to a debt for Barclaycard of £11k which was originally taken out approximately 3 or 4 years ago.
2. Took advice from another forum
3. 04/05/2017: Acknowledge Service with intention to defend within 14 days
4. 04/05/2017: Sent CPR 31.14 to solicitors
5. 04/05/2017: Sent a request for a copy of the agreement under Section 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act to the claimant
6. 25/05/2017: Defence Submitted & Received
7. 29/06/2017: Notification of allocation to fast track and DQ sent to me

Before I can make any suggestions as to your next step I'd like to pick up on item No 7 on your list which is the DQ you received presumably from the court.

What is/was the deadline for filing your response and have you done that yet (you've posted that you haven't but I thought best to check)?

I ask because it's not always a foregone conclusion a claim of £11k will be allocated to the Fast Track just because it's slightly over the £10k limit.

We see cases where Howard Cohen tell the court it should be allocated to the Small Claims Track because it's a "simple matter of debt collection".

I expect they do this in the hope that they'll avoid the thoroughness of Disclosure which is more robust in FT , and perhaps to avoid the risk of paying your legal costs if you decide to instruct solicitors to represent you and they lose the case.

Have you been sent any Draft Directions to agree by Howard Cohen?

Di

[colemnic]

Re: Help in defending a claim by Hoist & Howard Cohen in the CC Business Centre

Hi Di, thanks for getting involved here!

Yes I received the notification of allocation to fast track from the court along with the DQ N181 form. It states it is due by 31st July.

I haven't received anything from Howard Cohen at all.

Hoping you can help!

[Diana M]

Re: Help in defending a claim by Hoist & Howard Cohen in the CC Business Centre

so are you saying go with the unless order application? If so, what does that entail & what are the outcomes?

I think it's a bit premature to be making an Application for an Unless Order.

I favour the 'give them enough rope and they'll hang themselves' approach.

Have you considered sending Howard Cohen Part 18 questions? If they don't respond adequately you could then make an Application to the court to force them.

If their reply to your Part 18 questions refers to documents then you can ask them to disclose those documents.

Litigation is about tactics, and different lawyers litigate in different ways

Di

[Diana M]

Re: Help in defending a claim by Hoist & Howard Cohen in the CC Business Centre

Hi Di, thanks for getting involved here!

Yes I received the notification of allocation to fast track from the court along with the DQ N181 form. It states it is due by 31st July.

I haven't received anything from Howard Cohen at all.

Hoping you can help!

I'm always happy to help

You have until 31st July to file your DQ.

Howard Cohen should send you a copy of their completed DQ with Draft Directions. I don't have a crystal ball so I can't tell you what they'll be, but I have seen them ask the court to allocate a claim of £11k to the Small Claims Track many times.

There are Pros and Cons to both tracks.

Di

[colemnic]

Re: Help in defending a claim by Hoist & Howard Cohen in the CC Business Centre

Interesting stuff ... would you advise I do anything right now or wait?

[Diana M]

Re: Help in defending a claim by Hoist & Howard Cohen in the CC Business Centre

Interesting stuff ... would you advise I do anything right now or wait?

I would need to see the Particulars of Claim before making any meaningful suggestions.

Can you post up/type out (removing anything which could identify you) the exact wording to see what they are claiming and why they think they have the right to claim it.

I would also like to know what documents you asked for in your CPR 31.14 Request to see if they were actually 'mentioned' in the POC or just 'referred' (i.e. alluded) to in the POC.

If you make an Application to court for an Unless Order the DJ may take the view that what you are asking is not within the scope of CPR 31.14 so you need to be careful.

If you make an Application and the Claimant's solicitors decide to contest it (I expect they would) there will be a hearing. If you lose at that hearing then you may have to pay the other side's legal costs even if the claim is destined for the Small Claims Track.

A little more information will be necessary before it's safe for me to suggest what you should do next. I wouldn't want my firm to be sued for giving you wrong advice!

Di