** DISCONTINUED ** Please help, question regarding N180 form

[Amethyst]

Re: Please help, question regarding N180 form

Do you want to do a list of what is owed and to where - might help get together an overall plan to sort things out or at least give Debt Camel an idea of what you are dealing with - you're on top of rent / council tax / utilities okay ? so just catalogues and stuff ?

Hopefully we'll be able to take this one off the list soon anyway xx

[Ohfreeme]

Re: Please help, question regarding N180 form

Perhaps @Debt Camel would be able to make some suggestions about your overall financial situation.

You've battled through so much so maybe a fresh start is not such a bad idea?

Were you offered Mediation to settle this claim since it's under £10k?

Di

Yes Please I'll take any help offered!

Mediation was offered but I didn't have documents so it couldn't go ahead...

I defiantly need a fresh start with these debts. I'm just so lucky that our new landlord is so lovely. The last one was evil making us homeless before Christmas because I complained about repairs and the damp!

He issued a section 21 Notice in October 2015 which is when it all kicked off with Lowell.

I lost my entire deposit with that snake!

He's made me so scared of reporting repairs to my new landlord but thankfully he is very kind and helpful and I'm finally starting to feel settled here.

Because of my constant illness everything has piled up on me including masses of paperwork. I still haven't moved in properly as I was in hospital when it was moving day so friends helped and just chucked everything in boxes together even the rubbish lol.

To top that off I have a kid that poops himself every time he's fixated on something and another that has taken to peeing on the bedroom carpet.

So I'm either cleaning, looking after kids, on school runs or at some SEN/EHC meeting. I've recently started college as I'm determined to return to work on some sort of level of pay that I won't have to be on benefits at all. I find it really demeaning the way I'm treated now.

I need someone to take on some of the burden before I burn out (again).

The school sent round someone for a chat... Yep that was really helpful, not. Lol

Sorry for ranting...

[Diana M]

Re: Please help, question regarding N180 form

I think Di is just tryng to say that if the defence fails on the credit agreement issues the case is weaker because you have received the NoA, but we know that already

I was saying that admitting it in a WS may not be ideal since the Defendant can be cross-examined on the contents their WS.

There is no obligation to admit it.

You may know that they have received the NOA but that doesn't mean the OP has to put it in their WS so that the court then know it too.

Di

[Amethyst]

Re: Please help, question regarding N180 form

Oh don't worry, I know how quickly things can snowball when you're on the breadline - you've done completely the right thing though, being upfront with the creditors and keeping up with the priorities first ( rent & kids !) - really there's very little the DCA's can do to you, and if you did go on to lose this ( looks unlikely at the moment though ) the court would only ever order an affordable amount of payments.

I had a catalogue at something like 49.9%, my only income was benefits and they bumped the credit limit up to £3k before you could blink and I just couldn't keep up anymore. That's now with 1st Credit so I'm holding them off and saving up to do a full & final settlement. CSA were a pain in the bum too. I had a letter this week from them about changing to the Child Maintenance Scheme - which is nice, considering the CSA did sod all, and my ex has ( after a 3 year gap ) been paying privately anyway.

Really life just happens sometimes and you just have to put what's important first, so don't feel bad at all.

I've pm'd you btw xxx

[Diana M]

Re: Please help, question regarding N180 form

Perhaps [MENTION=48934]Debt Camel[/MENTION] would be able to make some suggestions about your overall financial situation.

You've battled through so much so maybe a fresh start is not such a bad idea?

Were you offered Mediation to settle this claim since it's under £10k?

Di

[Ohfreeme]

Re: Please help, question regarding N180 form

Yes it all came about when the CSA held on to my children's maintainance payments for 4 months and all by now pay later accounts where due and I had nothing to pay them. Also the bedroom tax came into effect and I had no money to even cover the rent and support the children.

At the time I was honest with the creditors and explained the situation but they where not sympathetic and the interest piled on.

Then when where made made homeless I was adviced to stop paying and save what I could to get a deposit together.

I honestly haven't been peeing away on catalouge it's just the extortionate aprs. The lowest APR I had at the time was something like 38%.

Lots have happened to me and my family and I have been forever changed by it all.

- - - Updated - - -

He stopped paying the money aswell in case you ask why I didn't pay off my debts when they did send the money. Which was sent in drips and drabs not as a whole amount and he only started paying again in 2016. He still owes about £1600. But the changed to the new service and they won't do a thing.

[Amethyst]

Re: Please help, question regarding N180 form

Oh and can't help but feel going bankrupt for a £3k credit card debt would be insane IMO. Is there a lot of other stuff debt wise you're dealing with ?

[Amethyst]

Re: Please help, question regarding N180 form

I think Di is just tryng to say that if the defence fails on the credit agreement issues the case is weaker because you have received the NoA, but we know that already - to be clear to be able to enforce the agreement they need to provide one that does actually comply with the Consumer Credit Act. If they pop up with one at the hearing or before you can ask to adjourn to assess the documents, and can make an offer/negotiation of settlement under either a consent order, or by going through the court for a CCJ and installment plan, if the defence falls away.

On the NOA bits - the documents are recreated, not forged, and the assignee is allowed to send a notice of assignment on behalf of the original creditor.

Do not lose confidence, you're doing great xxx

[Ohfreeme]

Re: Please help, question regarding N180 form

I'm really not sure what I'm doing and I cannot afford legel help. When I went for advice from the CAB. They told me to go bankrupt. I don't see how that would work as you need £750 to do that.

I'm losing confidence in this...

How can a company enforce an agreement that they (and the creditor) don't have?

Also can clearly forged documents be I held up in court?

If that where the case could I knock up a few statements on word and create a letter of assignment and send it to my neighbour claiming they owe me thousands. Then take them to court?

Are you saying that my witness statement is weak and I should just give up? I was starting to feel a little more positive but now I really don't.

- - - Updated - - -

I was being honest, isn't that what the point of a witness statement is?

I did file it away, I file away everything it's part of my routine as a carer as I don't have much time to myself to even eat or take a bath sometimes. Right now my daughter is screaming her head off...

[Diana M]

Re: Please help, question regarding N180 form

I'm not in a position to comment on a Witness Statement drafted by a third party (I have to respect my firm's insurance).

Ask yourself whether 'mitigation' may also be viewed as 'admission'.

Also ask yourself whether saying you received the NOA but didn't believe it was "real" is an admission of receiving the NOA regardless of whether you understood its relevance. A court may take the view that either you received it or your didn't.

You also refer to receiving correspondence from the creditor but filed it away. Could the court construe this as 'on the balance of probabilities' you did receive the Default Notice (and/or any other statutory notice)?

Di

[Amethyst]

Re: Please help, question regarding N180 form

Dropped him off - I'm sure he'll be fine I'm very caring ...

Don't forget to get a copy posted 1st class to the claimants as well if you can get out to the post office - hopefully your Daughter will feel better soon xxx

[Ohfreeme]

Re: Please help, question regarding N180 form

lol, yes it's called everything number 1. Sorry xxx

Ahh also maybe add in the ''agreement'' doesn't include the name and postal address of the creditor (if it doesn't )

Sorry I have to take my neighbour to hospital ( fractured foot apparently ).

Thank you so so much!!!!

I hope every thing works out for your neighbour.

I'm going to fax it to the court, I hope that will suffice as my daughter is awful today. Snotty and miserable.

I'll update the thread if there are anymore developments.

Take care!

[Amethyst]

Re: Please help, question regarding N180 form

lol, yes it's called everything number 1. Sorry xxx

Ahh also maybe add in the ''agreement'' doesn't include the name and postal address of the creditor (if it doesn't )

Sorry I have to take my neighbour to hospital ( fractured foot apparently ).

[Amethyst]

Re: Please help, question regarding N180 form

Okay, I have tried to keep in your mitigation paragraphs - if the court decides to try and impose terms then you have that there to help with negotiating a sensible payment arrangement. It shouldn't happen. If the claimant did suddenly come up with an actual agreement then you'd want to ask for an adjournment to check it over and amend your defence. As things stand your defence is failure to comply with s.78, and that no agreement was signed by yourself in any event.

Any further input very welcome ... and any questions ask - remember I'm not a lawyer or anything and it is you that will be arguing this in court so make sure it makes sense, is true and that you understand it xxxxx ( might have to redo numbering ( pasting from word to here sometimes cocks up numbering and spacing ))

sooo....DRAFT Amendments ..................


In the Northampton County Court Business Centre


Claim No. XXXXX


xxxxxxxxx
Claimant


and

xxxxxxxxxxxx
Defendant



Dated xxxxxxxxxxxxxx 2017

-------------------------------------
WITNESS STATEMENT
------------------------------------

I, xxxxxxxxx, of xxxxxaddressxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, am the Defendant (Applicant) and make this statement in support of my defence in this case. The facts in this statement come from my personal knowledge, documents in my possession and all documents made available to me from the Claimant “xx”.

1. I received the claim on xxth May 2017 from the Northampton County Court Business Centre.

1. I acknowledged receipt of the claim via the Moneyclaim online service on xxth May 2017.

1. I submitted a defence in the case on xx June 2017.

1. The claim relates to a running-account credit agreement (“the Agreement”) regulated under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

1. I believe the account was opened in 2008, however I do not recall signing any credit agreement at that time and, on checking my records, found that I do not hold a copy of the agreement or terms of that agreement. The original account seems to have been opened with a company named xxxx.

1. In order to find out more information, and check the terms of the account to enable me to assess my position with regard the claim and the accuracy of the sums claimed I made written requests for further information and documentation to include the Default Notice, Notice of Assignment and Agreement.

1. On 12^th June 2017 I made a formal request for a copy of the original credit agreement pursuant to section 78(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and enclosed the statutory fee of £1 ( Exhibit XXX )

1. The Claimant responded to my formal request in a letter dated xxxxxxxxxxxx 2017 ( EXHIBIT XXX). In their letter they state they have enclosed a copy of the Agreement. Enclosed with the letter was a document ( Exhibit XXX ) entitled “Digital Signature Application Details”.

1. This document supplied by XXX in response to my s.78 CCA request, is certainly not a copy of the original agreement nor even a reconstruction of the original agreement. The supplied document is an internal digital application form used to consider an application for credit, containing only name, address, age and employment data followed by a section detailing approval or decline of the credit facility.

1. Therefore the Claimant has failed in its duty as Creditor (pursuant to s.189 of the CCA 1974) to comply with a formal request under s.78(1) and under s.78(6) cannot enforce the agreement.

1. If the court should find that the document provided by the Claimant at Exhibit xxx is the agreement, I would contend that the document is not a properly executed regulated agreement under section 61(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and does not contain the prescribed terms and cannot be enforced.

1. Contrary to reg 2(1) of the Regulations the document does not contain the information set out in column 2 of Schedule 1 to the Regulations in that;

a) A heading in the prescribed form of words does not appear prominently on the first page of the document
b) There is no description of the type of credit
c) There is no detail of any credit limit
d) There is no detail of the rate of interest on the credit provided under the agreement
e) There is no detail on the timing or amount of repayments
f) There is no reference to the APR.
g) There is no reference or indication of any charges on default

1. On xxxx June 2017 I also made a formal request for copies of documents mentioned in the statement of case, being the Agreement, Default Notice and Notice of Assignment.
2. In response the Claimant has provided a copy of the Default Notice and Notice of Assignment ( EXHIBITS X & X )

15. I had not previously seen the notice of Default until the Claimant provided a copy. the Default notice is dated xxxxx and required compliance by xxxxxxx 2013. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx EXPAND ON THAT IF THERE'S AN ISSUE xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

1. I do acknowledge receipt of a notice of assignment and letter from the Claimant dated 27th October 2015. I did not initially respond to them as I believed that the assignment was not real. Both were received in the same envelope with the same printer reference giving indication that the Claimant had created both these documents and that it was not sent from the original creditor ( EXHIBIT X ) I still require the Claimant to prove that they have legal entitlement to the rights under the agreement.

1. I am mother to X children aged from xx to xxyrs, x of my children are on the Autistic Spectrum and I am unemployed. We became homeless in 20xx and I also contracted xxxxx. Due to this, subsequent correspondence from the Claimant were filed to be dealt with at a later date.

1. I moved with my children to the above address in xxxxx xxxx. Due to various personal problems including my battle with depression I continued to file correspondence from the Claimant not feeling the mental strength to call and question the letters received.

1. I acknowledge that I did receive a letter of claim from the Claimant, although it is dated xxx xxx xxx I did not receive it until xx xxx xxxx, I was not able to respond at the time as I was making preparations for my xxxx Operation. I mentioned before that I have x children on the Autistic Spectrum, I feel this is relevant to mention this as my children need structure and routine. As I would be absent for some time I had to make preparations in time of my surgery in xxxxx.

1. I had my xxxx operation on xxxxx. The claim form was received xxxxx which I completed and returned. I realise that I should have dealt with the alleged debt before it reached this stage, however as I had no information regarding the debt and documents did not appear to be real, I naively thought it would just go away.

1. I respectfully ask that the court finds against the Claimant as they have failed to comply with s.78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, and the original creditor failed to comply with s.61 of the same. The alleged agreement is not enforceable by the Claimant against the Defendant.

Statement of Truth
I believe that the facts stated in this statement are true.
Signed
__________________
xxxxxxxxxxxxx

[Amethyst]

Re: Please help, question regarding N180 form

There's nothing wrong with that at all. I'm going to make a couple minor amends, and add in a bit more about the apology for an agreement, but really, you shouldn't be so down on yourself - but your family, and your own health, comes first, so if you need to pull back don't just chuck in the towell, do it in a managed way, and you could always consider getting some formal legal help with it, no shame in that.

Getting some coffee and going to go back through the thread make sure we've got your WS as strong as it can be xxx So will be an hour or so