TIM vs ARROW/RESTONS (Need urgent help with defence)

[TIM50]

Hi,

This is my first post on here, so I hope that I include all the required information. I have recently received a court claim form, from the county court in Northampton. The Claimant is listed as Arrow Global, and the solicitor's address is listed as Restons Solicitors'.

The claim is concerning a past overdraft debt I had with HSBC. A few years ago, due to difficult family circumstances and then needing to move abroad, the overdraft amount built up and unfortunately I was unable to repay it.

We returned to the UK in the middle of last year to rebuild our lives here again, and have been gradually doing so, but this overdraft debt has now come to the forefront.

I wonder if anyone would be able to advise what the best way would be to proceed? I know that things are different with it being an overdraft, rather than a credit card debt.

The issue date of the claim is 15/5/17. I logged onto moneyclaim.gov on 22/05 to confirm that I will be contesting the claim.

I am currently unemployed, so am in receipt of Job Seekers Allowance, so have no way of paying back the overdraft unfortunately. Our family have also just moved into a new rental property, so have no extra cash whatsoever, and this is now causing a lot of worry that this court claim could result in a CCJ (making renting very difficult for our family in future) or bailiffs turning up at our door etc.

I am not sure how to proceed with contesting this court claim due to this being an overdraft rather than a credit card debt, so I would appreciate any advice on the best way forward. I have no idea really, and I know that there is probably limited time for any action. Should I send an SAR? Ask for proof of the contract between myself and HSBC which is mentioned in the claim form?

I would appreciate any advice on how to proceed, along with a suitable template letter I can send to Arrow or Restons (I'm not sure which!). This is all a bit daunting. There are no overdraft fees that I know of, but have no way of knowing this to be the case for sure. We were actually abroad when the account defaulted, which happened on 02/11/15. I am not sure when the overdraft was originally taken out.

The court claim letter is attached. Thanks

[charitynjw]

Re: Court claim form received (Restons / Arrow Global)

Hi & welcome to LB.

If you've acknowledged the claim via MCOL (& made sure to leave the defence section of the form blank) you have until Mon June 19th to file a defence.

To get some background, are you certain it is for just an overdraft? (I have seen anecdotal reports of differing types of alleged debt being packaged together for convenience).

[TIM50]

Re: Court claim form received (Restons / Arrow Global)

Hi & welcome to LB.

If you've acknowledged the claim via MCOL (& made sure to leave the defence section of the form blank) you have until Mon June 19th to file a defence.

To get some background, are you certain it is for just an overdraft? (I have seen anecdotal reports of differing types of alleged debt being packaged together for convenience).

Thank you for the reply. I wasn't expecting as quick a response. Yes, I have acknowledged the claim on MCOL. I left the defence section blank. I can confirm that the debt was definitely only for an overdraft.

[charitynjw]

Re: Court claim form received (Restons / Arrow Global)

Ok, next steps.

Send a CPR 31.14 request (see top of this thread in the green box) to the solicitors.
Ask for an accurate copy of the contract together with relevant Terms & Conditions, copies of any Notices of Assignment, and copies of all relevant Deeds of Assignment.

Send a SAR + £10 fee to HSBC (see top of thread) for all the personal data they hold. (If you have, or had, other accounts with them you could limit the request to just this account)

Keep copies of all correspondence, & get proof of posting.
& keep everything in writing.....it's wise to have papertrail evidence.

[TIM50]

Re: Court claim form received (Restons / Arrow Global)

Ok, next steps. Send a CPR 31.14 request (see top of this thread in the green box) to the solicitors. Ask for an accurate copy of the contract together with relevant Terms & Conditions, copies of any Notices of Assignment, and copies of all relevant Deeds of Assignment.

Send a SAR + £10 fee to HSBC (see top of thread) for all the personal data they hold. (If you have, or had, other accounts with them you could limit the request to just this account)

Keep copies of all correspondence, & get proof of posting.
& keep everything in writing.....it's wise to have papertrail evidence.

Thank you. I am just editing the CPR document, which is attached a the top of the thread. I have a couple of questions. One is regarding the paragraph below. I read in the guidance that I should only include in the letter requests for documents which were mentioned in the particular of the claim on the front of the claim form. On the front of the claim I can only see the mention of a 'contract', but there is obviously no mention of any notice or deed of assignment. Is this paragraph below still OK to include in the CPR request? or should I amend it in any way?:

To enable me to file my defence and/or counterclaim, I require inspection of documents you mention in your statement of case ahead of filing my defence on XX XXXX 201X.

1. Accurate copy of the contract including all terms and conditions
2. Copies of any notices of assignment
3. Copies of any relevant deeds of assignment

In accordance with CPR 31.15(c) I undertake to be responsible for your reasonable copying costs incurred in complying with this CPR 31.14 request.

I also have a question about the last paragraph in the CPR template. The last paragraph makes a formal request for a copy of the credit agreement relating to the claim, pursuant to the consumer credit act 1974, with the need to include a £1 statutory fee.

With this court claim being due to an overdraft rather than a credit card, I don't think it comes under the consumer credit act. Should I just remove that paragraph entirely? and if so, I guess there is no need to send the £1 fee?

Is there anything else I should add to the CPR request? or OK to send?

[charitynjw]

Re: Court claim form received (Restons / Arrow Global)

The PoC mentions 'assigned'.
If so, there must/should be both a Deed, & in order for the debt purchaser to make a claim in their own right, there must be a notification properly served on you, so a Notice.
Re the CCA request, the PoC doesn't preclude that the 'contract' contains a regulated agreement.
As there is a possibility that various alleged debts have been 'rolled' into one sum, if it were me I'd send the CCA request.
If for no other reason than giving them a headache!
I'd add a line to the CPR request to let the solicitors know that a CCA request has been served on their client, possibly even enclosing a copy (no fee with this one).

[TIM50]

Re: Court claim form received (Restons / Arrow Global)

Ok, great, thanks!

I just want to clarify who the client of Reston's would be. Would that be Arrow Global (listed as claimant on court form, and who I assume are debt collectors who have bought the debt) or HSBC? If I am posting things to HSBC, should these be sent to HSBC's head office address? there is no address for HSBC on the court claim form.

So as far as I understand things:

1) I will send a CPR 3.14 to Restons Solicitors, which will ask for a copy of the contract (along with terms and conditions, as well as any copies of any notices or deeds of assignment. I will leave the line in the CPR advising that I have sent a CCA request to their client, and I will include a copy of that request.

2) Regarding the CCA request. The template advises that I should send this to the original creditor or to the debt collector if the debt has been sent on. Should I send this then to HSBC (original creditor) or to Arrow Global, if they are the debt collectors?

3) I will send a SAR request, along with £10 postal order to HSBC.

I will send all these by Royal Mail 1st Class Recorded Delivery and get a proof of posting. I wouldn't think it was necessary for each of these to be sent by Special Delivery.

Thanks

[TIM50]

Re: Court claim form received (Restons / Arrow Global)

Hi, Just a quick update. I sent a CPR 3.14 to Restons, a CCA request to Arrow Global, and a SAR to HSBC. All were sent recorded delivery and were signed for.

I have yet to hear anything from Restons or Arrow Global, but HSBC have phoned me to confirm the information requested and have also sent a confirmation letter advising that they will respond to my request within 40 days.

I am just wondering how I should proceed if I haven't heard anything back from Restons, Arrow Global or HSBC by the time I need to submit my defence, which I think is by 19/06/17.

[TIM50]

TIM vs ARROW/RESTONS (Need urgent help with defence)

Hi,

I am posting again due to needing some urgent help with preparing a defence statement. A while ago I received a claim form from Northampton county court. The issue date on the claim form is 15th May 2017. This claim relates to an overdraft with HSBC.

I am getting quite worried now because I think the defence is due to be submitted by tomorrow. I am also worried that I will end up with a CCJ and there will shortly be bailiffs at the door. We have two children (4 years old and 5 months) and I don't want them to become involved in all of this. I am also on income based JSA, so don't have any kind of additional income at the moment. According to my records, the HSBC account defaulted on 02/11/15, but I'm not sure when the overdraft was actually taken out.

On 1st June 2017 I sent these letters:

1) CPR 3.14 to Restons Solicitors, asking for a copy of the contract (along with any terms and conditions), as well as copies of any notices or deeds of assignment.

2) SAR to HSBC

3) CCA request to Arrow Global

I haven't heard anything from Restons Solicitors or Arrow Global, but have had a phone call and subsequent letter from HSBC advising that the SAR would be dealt with within 40 days.

I would appreciate any advice on getting this defence prepared, as it's quite daunting, and I have no idea how that should be done. I can see there is a defence template at the top of the forum, but it seems to relate to credit agreements which an overdraft debt would not come under.

Thanks

[Kati]

Re: TIM vs ARROW/RESTONS (Need urgent help with defence)

According to this (https://www.timeanddate.com/date/dat...aw=&ad=33&rec=) your defence is due on Saturday 17th June ... I'll tag [MENTION=6]Amethyst[/MENTION] [MENTION=2]Celestine[/MENTION] [MENTION=87380]Diana M[/MENTION] [MENTION=7765]Joanna C[/MENTION] to help guide you through it xx

[MIKE770]

Re: TIM vs ARROW/RESTONS (Need urgent help with defence)

that will be Monday 4 p.m. due to weekend (allowed) or do it friday ?

[TIM50]

Re: TIM vs ARROW/RESTONS (Need urgent help with defence)

Thanks Mike. Yes, I was just on the phone with the money claim helpline and they also advised that the defence can be submitted by 4pm Monday, so that gives me a few days.

[Amethyst]

Re: TIM vs ARROW/RESTONS (Need urgent help with defence)

Afternoon Yes Monday should be fine. If you can do it before then all the better.

On the claim form they haven't mentioned it to be an overdraft. Have they not sent you anything since you wrote to them after receiving the claim ?

Did you, as you recall, at any point have a credit card or loan or other products with HSBC that could have ended up being added into the overdraft 'debt' figure ?

As you have quite a standard claim there, and have sent standard CCA and CPR 31.14 requests ? your defence should keep it quite simple. You may have to amend along the line once you have your SAR information back and / or the claimants argue back that it's an overdraft or actually send any documents.

You can make a couple of amendments to the 'standard' no documents defence and include a very basic reference to the possibility an overdraft might be involved and that might be made up of charges due to an unfair relationship, however without further information from the claimant, which has been asked for... that kind of thing.

Do you want to have a draft and pop it up here ( minus specific personal stuff ) and will give it a once over.

[Kati]

Re: TIM vs ARROW/RESTONS (Need urgent help with defence)

original thread - http://legalbeagles.info/forums/show...-Arrow-Global) xx

[Amethyst]

Re: TIM vs ARROW/RESTONS (Need urgent help with defence)

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh lol. Let's have a merge then so we know what we're talking about.

(DONE)

Okay so you never had any loan or c/card with HSBC and so far as you are aware this is definately for an overdraft. I still think as the claimant hasn't indicated that anywhere I'd continue with the standard defence - the only bit not absolutely relevant there is the CCA request - but they still need to evidence the bank account, the terms that allowed HSBC to charge you and how the sum they are claiming has been arrived at.... as well as the default and notice of assignment of that debt to Arrow Global. So really at this stage it isn't much different.

You mentioned earlier your personal circumstances - please don't be letting this throw you off course. If the worst came to it and they supplied all evidence and it wasn't felt there was a defence on charges and unfair relationships on the account - you could make an offer to pay an affordable amount by installment. This could be set by the court on submission of income/expenditure statements, and you can have a review at 6 months/year and increase payments if your circumstances improve.

Are you currently renting or in your own property?