Massively messed up,am I doomed.

[Heebee23]

I posted a little while back about defending a CCJ as Statute Barred.

I didn't want to link to the original post as what I am about to state blows my defence out of the water.

At the time of posting my defence I checked my current account and could find not a single payment.But,and this is the killer,I recently found statements for an old bank account I had around the same time which show payments were in fact made within the six year period 😩😩😩.

I am so devastated at my stupidity and am asking once again if you can help this dumb old fool with what I should expect next?

As it stands defence was filed 15th May.
Defence received at solicitors 18th May.
CCR request refused and Statute claim rejected and they request proof of my non payment.

CCA request had been sent and signed for to DCA but no response or acknowledgement received as of three weeks ago.

I can't believe I have been so stupid and would be grateful if you could give me any advice on what my next steps should be.

Thank you in advance

[Amethyst]

Re: Massively messed up,am I doomed.

That is why we always try get people to use cca and cpr in their defence alongside statute barred as it's surprising how many people 100% convinced their debt is stat barred find out further along that it isn't ... 6 years is a long time.

So all is not lost.

Anyway with their request for you to prove non payment - we'll it's pretty impossible to prove you haven't done something - they should inform you when, how much and by what method the payment was made , if a payment was made by dd or bank transfer records would exist, so I think I'd ask them to evidence the payment was made - the limitation act does put the onus of proof on them anyway- so use that. If of course they have full records and they add up with what you think you have discovered then you can't lie of course - and you still have the cca to fall back on defence wise

[Diana M]

Re: Massively messed up,am I doomed.

I would suggest an Amended Defence might be the way forward preferably by consent with the Claimant to circumnavigate a formal court application (since you know that this debt is definitely not Statute Barred) or a formal application to the court for permission to amend your Defence.

The solicitors involved in this case do not have a reputation for 'playing nicely' so don't hold your breath for consent to amend your Defence and introduce new legal arguments.

You can argue until the cows come home with the Claimant that they need to provide you with proof of the/your payment which they believe demolishes your Defence but they may take the view (my firm probably would) that "we don't litigate through correspondence".

You're involved in legal proceedings not playing Call My Bluff

What stage have these proceedings reached?

You've filed a Defence which presumably has been served on the Claimant by the court giving them 28 days to inform the court whether they intend to continue with the proceedings or the claim will be stayed (a temporary pause button).

Are you aware of Part 18 questions? This option will depend on what was stated in the Particulars of Claim.

Di

[Heebee23]

Re: Massively messed up,am I doomed.

Thank you so much Amethyst for the reply.

Do I need to request proof of payment again as I have already sent of all the forms on here along with proof of payment request.Or do I just play the waiting game?

[Diana M]

Re: Massively messed up,am I doomed.

Do I need to request proof of payment again as I have already sent of all the forms on here along with proof of payment request.Or do I just play the waiting game?

Did that last letter from the Claimant's solicitors (I've read your other thread so I know who they are and I know how they operate) say they would attempt to get your Defence struck out ( a Summary Judgment application) because they believe it has no legal merit since the debt is not SB?

Di

[Heebee23]

Re: Massively messed up,am I doomed.

Yes,that is exactly what it said.

I know I sound like a complete dumbass but I am out of my depth here to say the least.

Cards on the table as I said before,if the worst comes to the worst what will happen.

I don't own my own home,I don't work and have nothing of value to sell,I am subsidised by my partner so would he liable for the debt.

I really don't care about getting a CCJ as I have no intention of getting credit again so if it happens it happens,but I just want to proceed in the best way if that makes any sense.

[Diana M]

Re: Massively messed up,am I doomed.

I know I sound like a complete dumbass but I am out of my depth here to say the least.

Cards on the table as I said before,if the worst comes to the worst what will happen.

I don't own my own home,I don't work and have nothing of value to sell,I am subsidised by my partner so would he liable for the debt.

I really don't care about getting a CCJ as I have no intention of getting credit again so if it happens it happens,but I just want to proceed in the best way if that makes any sense.

You're not sounding like a dumass at all!

Navigating your way through legal proceedings which are alien to you is like being in a foreign country where you don't speak the language.

There are plenty of things you can do so that "the worst" doesn't happen.

But to answer your questions:

Although you're not bothered by a CCJ at the moment you need to know what enforcement options any Judgment Creditor may have since a CCJ does not go Statute Barred. You may have no job or assets today but might that situation change in the future?

No your partner would not be liable for your debt

Your legal situation is fixable but going forward with a Defence which only pleads the debt is SB when you know it's not would be unwise. If this eventually landed in court (Hearing) and the other side were able to establish that you knew it wasn't SB (albeit at the time you filed your Defence you believed it was) then they may ask the court for wasted costs even in the Small Claims Court.

So as Amethyst has said you need to throw other legal arguments into the mix and my personal view is you need to do that in a formal way.

Di

[Amethyst]

Re: Massively messed up,am I doomed.

Completely agree - if the only defence grounds you submitted was statute barred then you need to amend formally to include the cca non compliance and/or other issues.

[Heebee23]

Re: Massively messed up,am I doomed.

Thank you for clarifying it all for me.

So in the first instance should I write to the solicitor to request permission to an amendment to my defence and await a response.Then if they refuse just apply directly to the court for a paid amendment.

Is that right ��

[Heebee23]

Re: Massively messed up,am I doomed.

I hope it's ok to post a quick update here.

As things stand the claim has been stayed.

I have received the documents from my SAR request which is quite extensive but the credit agreement looks a bit odd.

The first page is a photo copy of Personal details but not in the format of an application form.
The second page is the basic terms and conditions with my signature on and then there are pages and pages headed credit card agreement.

Would it be ok to email a photo of it to you guys to tell me what you think?

Thank you in advance

[Heebee23]

Re: Massively messed up,am I doomed.

I hope it's ok to post a quick update here.

As things stand the claim has been stayed.

I have received the documents from my SAR request which is quite extensive but the credit agreement looks a bit odd.

The first page is a photo copy of Personal details but not in the format of an application form.
The second page is the basic terms and conditions with my signature on and then there are pages and pages headed credit card agreement.

Would it be ok to email a photo of it to you guys to tell me what you think?

Thank you in advance

Anyone around to answer please?

[warwick65]

Re: Massively messed up,am I doomed.

This is in response to your SAR to the OC and NOT in response to your CCA request to the claimant?

Try to have a read through and see what info you can glean, for example payment dates, default dates etc etc

Keep these to yourself then if the claimant does come up with the agreement you have something to compare it to

Just checking

is the claim still stayed?
have you sought to amend your defence?

[Heebee23]

Re: Massively messed up,am I doomed.

This is in response to your SAR to the OC and NOT in response to your CCA request to the claimant?

Try to have a read through and see what info you can glean, for example payment dates, default dates etc etc

Keep these to yourself then if the claimant does come up with the agreement you have something to compare it to

Just checking

is the claim still stayed?
have you sought to amend your defence?

Thanks for the response.

To answer your questions.

The info was th SAR request from Sainsbury's I haven't had a response from the CCA request apart from they are waiting for the paperwork.

The claim is still stayed.
I did request to amend my defence and had no reply from the solicitors.By this time the claim had become stayed so was unsure how to proceed.

[warwick65]

Re: Massively messed up,am I doomed.

I think as the claim is stayed it would be unwise to poke the giant. If they try to lift the stay then is the time to write again requesting to amend your defence and saying if they are not agreeable you will apply to the court. The problem about applying to the court is there is a cost involved so depending on the value of the claim depends on if it is worth going through that process.

[warwick65]

Re: Massively messed up,am I doomed.

I think as the claim is stayed it would be unwise to poke the giant. If they try to lift the stay then is the time to write again requesting to amend your defence and saying if they are not agreeable you will apply to the court. The problem about applying to the court is there is a cost involved (unless you get fee remission- it is something like a gross salary for a single person of 13K gives full fee remission, as salary increases the amount you have to pay goes up) so depending on the value of the claim depends on if it is worth going through that process.


I have just had a peek at your thread and see it was advised before but I have had a slight change of mind, while it is stayed let it stay that way.