CCJ Please - Court Hearing help

[FlamingParrot]

Re: CCJ Please - Court Hearing help

Bit of update, I've received the witness statement from DCA which is for the local court and which basically says even though I was out of country I was aware of the and CCJ should not be set aside. I am not sure why they have send the witness statement few days before hearing? its written by a trainee solicitor as it says in the statement.

I am bit stressed not sure as haven't read any where that sols send witness statements as well.

I can also confirm today that there is no payment on my account as Ive received bank statements from 2007 from my bank. As you mention in your last post am I still on the border line for the statue bar option?

IMHO, it seems a bit of a contradiction to argue the account is statute barred if it isn't yours to start with. For example, you wouldn't know how I pay my mobile contract, most people would pay by direct debit but I could use another bank account, for example, my business account, to pay my mobile bills, if you see what I mean. When you say an account is statute barred it's because you know you've not made any payments or written acknowledgments yourself, or ask anyone to do it on your behalf (such as when on a DMP), in the last six years. If the account is not yours, you couldn't make such an assertion.

No I still don't recognize the account, there are no failed payments showing on bank statement in 12.06.2007 or any type of db or cr transaction.

DD cancelled payment is only showing in the t-mob SAR history and DCA don't have any record of this failed payment either in their SAR.

I never had this contract seems like identity theft and someone else have used my bank details once I've moved out of the property.

can you pls advise Is this a statue barred account based on all these facts in my defence????

[mightyg]

Re: CCJ Please - Court Hearing help

hi how do i upload image its asking for link to insert????

[mightyg]

Re: CCJ Please - Court Hearing help

Here you go.

This not my debt members however I am not sure what should I do to prove this now as its from 2007 Its been 8 years now.

My first effort will be to set aside this judgement as I was not in this country then I need your advise what is the best action.


Thanks

[mightyg]

Re: CCJ Please - Court Hearing help

Hi FlamingParrot

This is not my debt, I've got sar from dca and sar is nothing but couple of invoices in my name with the property address which is wrong.

And then one page with the t mobile details and majority of the details on that page are wrong as this page shows the payment date in 2008 and judgement date in 2009. dca bought this debt in jun-2013 and then passed to their solicitors who obtained the CCJ.


I've never been in such situation and cannot think of what should I do now. SAR from T mobile is only the payment history and order pages showing phone details my name, dob and wrong address details but my bank details and there is no payments ever been made to t mobile from this bank by dd during that period or ever. SAR from t mobile states no signed agreement as only kept for 2 years and t mobile send no invoices. 8 pages one covering letter then payment history and order details .

I've to create my defence but not sure what to include

Thanks.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: CCJ Please - Court Hearing help

Here you go.

This not my debt members however I am not sure what should I do to prove this now as its from 2007 Its been 8 years now.

My first effort will be to set aside this judgement as I was not in this country then I need your advise what is the best action.

Thanks

That's just their own statement and not a decision of the court. They are arguing compliance with the CPR with regards to service of the claim. Let's see if I got this right, the claim was sent to your home address but you didn't respond because you were abroad, is that the case? So when you got back to the UK you found the claim form but it was too late as they'd already requested and obtained default judgment, is that right?

When they argue that there is no reference to the copy being taken from your passport, surely if you were to appear in court you'd have the original document with the relevant stamps in court? Actually you were lucky to have travelled somewhere outside the EU because you don't get anything on your passport within the EU.

Hi FlamingParrot

This is not my debt, I've got sar from dca and sar is nothing but couple of invoices in my name with the property address which is wrong.

Debt purchasers wouldn't have much more data than that, they buy defaulted accounts in job lots with very little detail about them.

And then

one page with the t mobile details and majority of the details on that page are wrong as this page shows the payment date in 2008 and judgement date in 2009. dca bought this debt in jun-2013 and then passed to their solicitors who obtained the CCJ.

Sounds like they sent you details from another account where they got judgment in 2009, that should work in your favour to establish how easily they get their accounts mixed up as clearly that can't be your account. Was that also in the SAR?

I've never been in such situation and cannot think of what should I do now.

SAR from T mobile is only the payment history and order pages showing phone details my name, dob and wrong address details but my bank details and there is no payments ever been made to t mobile from this bank by dd during that period or ever. SAR from t mobile states no signed agreement as only kept for 2 years and t mobile send no invoices. 8 pages one covering letter then payment history and order details .

Did you have a contract with T Mobile at all?

Whose payment history is shown on the SAR? Is that your account? You say not payments were made 'from this bank', how were those payments made then?

[mightyg]

Re: CCJ Please - Court Hearing help

payment history is just invoice been produced no credits shown first invoice is showing as 27-05/2007 which is contract start date as well and then goes up until oct-2008 to make £640 then cost been added and today its stands around £900.00(ccj amount)

[mightyg]

Re: CCJ Please - Court Hearing help

That's just their own statement and not a decision of the court. They are arguing compliance with the CPR with regards to service of the claim. Let's see if I got this right, the claim was sent to your home address but you didn't respond because you were abroad, is that the case? So when you got back to the UK you found the claim form but it was too late as they'd already requested and obtained default judgment, is that right?


yes you are right i found about judgement when I've returned, I've got gp letter, original passpor with stamps. Thats my main defence for setaside hearing.






one page with the t mobile details and majority of the details on that page are wrong as this page shows the payment date in 2008 and judgement date in 2009. dca bought this debt in jun-2013 and then passed to their solicitors who obtained the CCJ.
Sounds like they sent you details from another account where they got judgment in 2009, that should work in your favour to establish how easily they get their accounts mixed up as clearly that can't be your account. Was that also in the SAR?


Yes this page is part of SAR, SAR is basically made up of the letters I've sent, 2-3 pages of their systems screen showing balance breakdown no payments.And then a phocopied page with heading details from t-mobile - with wrong payment dates, judgement dates And then 4 invoices with start date in oct-2007 to oct-08


SAR from T mobile is with the payment history(page title) and phone order page showing phone details my name, dob and wrong address details but my bank details. There are payments ever been made to t mobile from this bank by dd during that period or ever.
Covering letter in SAR from t mobile states no signed agreement as these are only kept for 2 years. t mobile send no invoices(DCA did).


Did you have a contract with T Mobile at all?


No I've never ever had contract with t-mobile and I've used teamplate from your website for sar request which also request for deed of assignment and notation using cpr31.14 but all i ve received from t is letter stating that no signed contract and terms and coondition should be treated as contract as they don't keep copies of contract more than 2 years.


Whose payment history is shown on the SAR? Is that your account? You say not payments were made 'from this bank', how were those payments made then?


they have attached pages with PAYMENT-HISTORY showing all the invoices. And then in the end page there is dd mandate with my bnk account details and first dd date but there is no payments ever taken.


Now the issue is how would my defence look like I thought I can use statue bar however you've advised as this is not my account I shoun't use that I am not sure what are my options for defence then.


Thanks

[FlamingParrot]

Re: CCJ Please - Court Hearing help

That's just their own statement and not a decision of the court. They are arguing compliance with the CPR with regards to service of the claim. Let's see if I got this right, the claim was sent to your home address but you didn't respond because you were abroad, is that the case? So when you got back to the UK you found the claim form but it was too late as they'd already requested and obtained default judgment, is that right?

yes you are right i found about judgement when I've returned, I've got gp letter, original passpor with stamps. Thats my main defence for setaside hearing.

That's an argument to apply for set aside, not your defence. In addition to explaining why you didn't respond to the claim you also need a valid defence indicating that, had you been able to respond to the claim, you could have successfully defended it. That would be the fact that this isn't your debt in the first place I should think. :grin:

Yes this page is part of SAR, SAR is basically made up of the letters I've sent, 2-3 pages of their systems screen showing balance breakdown no payments.And then a phocopied page with heading details from t-mobile - with wrong payment dates, judgement dates And then 4 invoices with start date in oct-2007 to oct-08

Presumably the invoices are not yours. If that's the case, looks like good evidence that they've got their accounts mixed up. :thumb:
[QUOTE=mightyg;560858]

Covering letter in SAR from t mobile states no signed agreement as these are only kept for 2 years. t mobile send no invoices(DCA did).

That may refer to the fact that most mobile contracts are for two years or less.

Did you have a contract with T Mobile at all?
No I've never ever had contract with T-Mobile and I've used teamplate from your website for sar request which also request for deed of assignment and notation using cpr31.14 but all i ve received from t is letter stating that no signed contract and terms and coondition should be treated as contract as they don't keep copies of contract more than 2 years.

If you didn't have one to start with you wouldn't have the T&Cs either!

they have attached pages with PAYMENT-HISTORY showing all the invoices. And then in the end page there is dd mandate with my bnk account details and first dd date but there is no payments ever taken.

Now the issue is how would my defence look like I thought I can use statue bar however you've advised as this is not my account I shoun't use that I am not sure what are my options for defence then.

IMHO, a SBd defence is an admission that you did have the contract but have not paid or acknowledged it in over six years. There is the possibility that they could come up with something showing a payment was made into this account by whoever had this contract.

The fact that they have sent you some pages showing a judgment in 2009 is significant, if they obtained judgment for this account back then they are not entitled to issue a fresh claim and obtain a second judgment.

[nemesis45]

Re: CCJ Please - Court Hearing help

Hello mightyG
Responding to your PM

Their witness statement seems to me to be rather confused given that this is an application to set aside.Your reason for the application is that you did not receive the original claim pack because it was sent to a wrong address and you were out of the country.

Your defence to the original claim is: That you have never been a customer of the original creditor and have no knowledge of any such account and given that information you carried out checks on your credit history and banking details relating to the time scale in which the alleged account was live.

This research provide no indication of any payments being made to the original creditor at any point.
Looking at this in the way the claimants/solicitors will view this matter.

1.Problems the Passport visa entries it seems were " unsupported" i.e. it was not possible to identify you as the holder of the Passport from which the information was taken.

2. The payment details/and invoices show your Name and a Direct Debit Mandate containing your banking details, if there have been payments made to the alleged account would these not have been made via that Direct Debt

3.You also state that " 2-3 pages of screen shots balance break down and NO payments " You then go on to state " photocopied page with heading details from TMobile with wrong payment dates, judgement dates etc.

4. The statement above " with wrong payment dates" is confusing as you say also no payments were taken??

5. Is there a signature on the DD mandate?.

6. The judgement in 2009 is important, this stopped the 6 year relevant period on the date it was issued> meaning that if you want to use SB as a defence, the debt must be statute barred before the judgement was made.

7. There can only be one judgement for this, but there can be enforcement of the original judgement.

Have you been provided with a copy of this Direct Debit Mandate? Can we see a redacted copy please.? Remove account details first.

At present using SB if that's what you intend, will have to be carefully worded, even though it is not an admission of liability it may be construed as you having knowledge of such a liability.

You would need to for instance state that from the data provided from the claimant and the original creditor together with your own research into your banking details that you have reached the conclusion that the debt was statute barred prior to the claim being issued.

That is my considered analysis of the matter using the information so far provided.

nem

[mightyg]

Re: CCJ Please - Court Hearing help

I will try to simplify my case as seems like some confusion the way I have written about SAR and the information obtained from creditors.
SAR from DCA:
There are around 12 pages
3 pages are 3 invoices dated 27.05.2007, 27.07.2007, and 27/06/2007.
Letters sent to my old address with LBA.
27/07/2007 invoice is the final invoice with final balance.
There is 1 page showing breakdown which is balance plus interest added.
Another page showing details provided by t-mob. And here there is the entry says
Last Payment date and Judgement Date in 2008 and 2009 respectively. And the information provided contradicts here as the invoices shows no payments been made and balance reconcile to the CCJ balance. I’ve no idea what is judgement date in 2009 as ther is no mention of this date anywhere in SAR and t-mobile never applied for any judgements.

SAR from t:

Covering letter saying unable to provide agreement have provided payment history and order details.
Payment history showing around 12 invoices. Its called payment history but no payments which shows the information passed from t to dca is wrong as in their record it shows there is payment in t-bile records.
The order detail there are 3 pages which contains phone detail sim details and my address and then the 3 page contains wrong address and my bank details (no signatures) .
There is no other judgement ever showed on my credit reports I’ve copy in 2013 and no mention of judgement in 2009 in SAR either. This explains majority of the data which DCA retrieved on that page are wrong.


This is all I’ve until now. My plan was this debt is statue barred as 27-10-07 to 04-11-2013 claim date 6 years no payment or acknowledgement but after your advice I think need expert advice on this case. I will take my passport and gp letters to set aside. Not sure about defence now?

[FlamingParrot]

Re: CCJ Please - Court Hearing help

I will try to simplify my case as seems like some confusion the way I have written about SAR and the information obtained from creditors.
SAR from DCA:
There are around 12 pages
3 pages are 3 invoices dated 27.05.2007, 27.07.2007, and 27/06/2007.
Letters sent to my old address with LBA.
27/07/2007 invoice is the final invoice with final balance.
There is 1 page showing breakdown which is balance plus interest added.
Another page showing details provided by t-mob. And here there is the entry says
Last Payment date and Judgement Date in 2008 and 2009 respectively. And the information provided contradicts here as the invoices shows no payments been made and balance reconcile to the CCJ balance. I’ve no idea what is judgement date in 2009 as ther is no mention of this date anywhere in SAR and t-mobile never applied for any judgements.

Have you searched the public record for judgments? http://www.trustonline.org.uk/search-yourself It wouldn't be conclusive because they drop off the record after six years so if it was recorded in the first half of 2009 it wouldn't show up. Judgments would normally also show up on credit files but there is no obligation to report to the CRAs as such whilst they are all recorded on the registry of judgments above.

SAR from t:

Covering letter saying unable to provide agreement have provided payment history and order details.
Payment history showing around 12 invoices. Its called payment history but no payments which shows the information passed from t to dca is wrong as in their record it shows there is payment in t-bile records.
The order detail there are 3 pages which contains phone detail sim details and my address and then the 3 page contains wrong address and my bank details (no signatures) .
There is no other judgement ever showed on my credit reports I’ve copy in 2013 and no mention of judgement in 2009 in SAR either. This explains majority of the data which DCA retrieved on that page are wrong.

T Mobile could have sold this account to the DCA who obtained the judgment, presumably by default, after sending court papers to some unknown address.

In any case, it's the same DCA who have obtained a second judgment against you, there can't be two judgments for the same account. The account wasn't yours in the first place which is why it's never showed up on your credit records.

This is all I’ve until now. My plan was this debt is statue barred as 27-10-07 to 04-11-2013 claim date 6 years no payment or acknowledgement but after your advice I think need expert advice on this case. I will take my passport and gp letters to set aside. Not sure about defence now?

Apart from not being your account, if judgment was obtained in 2009 then the debt is not statute barred because judgments don't go SBd even when they are not enforced, so that defence would fail on those grounds. A better defence would be that you never had a contract with T Mobile to start with and they have somehow got their records mixed up.

[mightyg]

Re: CCJ Please - Court Hearing help

There cannot be another judgement as I’ve copy of my report in 2010 and 2013 and also DCA/t-mobile must have mentioned that in their SAR or witness statements. DCA bought this debt in jan 2013.
And also during the period of 09-13 I’ve obtained credit cards and that would have flagged during the process.
However I will draft my defence based on mixed up accounts wrong information. Then in the end I will add the statue barred reason as well.
Are there any advice for the hearing day? What are the chances DCA sols to turn up?
My address was different to the address listed on the ‘order’ page of t mobile SAR. I’ve my bank statements and one more correspondence during that period with my correct address. Would that help?


Thanks
Much Appreciated

[FlamingParrot]

Re: CCJ Please - Court Hearing help

It's quite clear that they got their records mixed up somewhere, otherwise they wouldn't have issued a claim against YOU for a contract you never had! I think you've got enough evidence of the mix-up in the documents you have. I still don't think you can safely say the debt is SBd when it wasn't your account to start with, and there is the element of a judgment there which may not have been issued in your name as the defendant since you were not the account holder but it could relate to this account and whoever had the phone and used the service at the time. The problem is that old judgments drop off the record and without further details about it, other than an entry on a page, it's not easy to find out what happened there. However, the existence of a judgment would put paid to any assumptions of SBd.

All the paperwork you have will definitely help to show this wasn't your account. :thumb:

As for the solicitors turning up, you never know, they may not, or they may just send a trainee paralegal... :mmph:

[nemesis45]

Re: CCJ Please - Court Hearing help

There cannot be another judgement as I’ve copy of my report in 2010 and 2013 and also DCA/t-mobile must have mentioned that in their SAR or witness statements. DCA bought this debt in jan 2013.
And also during the period of 09-13 I’ve obtained credit cards and that would have flagged during the process.
However I will draft my defence based on mixed up accounts wrong information. Then in the end I will add the statue barred reason as well.
Are there any advice for the hearing day? What are the chances DCA sols to turn up?
My address was different to the address listed on the ‘order’ page of t mobile SAR. I’ve my bank statements and one more correspondence during that period with my correct address. Would that help?


Thanks
Much Appreciated

In summary MG is this a simple statement of the occurrences.

1. There has only on judgement in this case?

2. The current " case " is for set aside of that judgement?

3. There is no other claim proposed at this time?

Your reason for applying for set aside is: That you did not receive the original documents i.e. Claim Pack as you were not in the UK on the date the claim was issued, therefore could not make any defence to the claim.

You must beef up the proof as to your whereabouts when the claim was issued i.e. the passport entry has to be backed up by the rest of the passport, page numbers and references. prepare 3 sets of photocopies of every page and bind them in the proper order, this to refute that part of their WS.

nem

This in not your debt so your position at the hearing is that you have never had an account with the original creditor.

[mightyg]

Re: CCJ Please - Court Hearing help

1. There has only on judgement in this case? yes

2. The current " case " is for set aside of that judgement? yes

3. There is no other claim proposed at this time. no

As advised by you will take all pages photocopies X 3 to prove I was out of the country + original passport.

thanks