Advice needed for an upcoming trial

[nemesis45]

Re: Advice needed for an upcoming trial

Practice Dir, Court Documents 5.3 (Claims Production) the claims are issued via NCCBC.

[mystery1]

Re: Advice needed for an upcoming trial

Signature
10 Any provision of the CPR which requires a document to be signed by any person is satisfied by that person entering their name on an online form.

M1

[skilganon]

Re: Advice needed for an upcoming trial

@ M1,

Brilliant, thank you M1, the claim form does breach cpr rules, i will suggest such a paragraph be entered on the WS.

it may not be enough to win the case, but if it succeeds in the claimant forfeiting their costs it will help. :okay:

[skilganon]

Re: Advice needed for an upcoming trial

@ M1 @ nem,

hi guys, the claim form was submitted through MCOL, however the claimants solicitor signed the claim form in the name of the practice, this was put in the defence but the judge completely ignored it at the prelim. stating how great and efficient he believed the claimants solicitor to be

maybe he used to work for them ?

[nemesis45]

Re: Advice needed for an upcoming trial

Signature
10 Any provision of the CPR which requires a document to be signed by any person is satisfied by that person entering their name on an online form.

M1

Hi M1,

I tried to PM you on this but I see you do not accept PM's

Practice Direction 5(a).
Court Documents:
Signature by Mechanical Means:
Para 1 does not apply to claims the Claims Production Centre ( the Northampton CC Business Centre). (MCoL)
Extract from 2.1. If drafted as a member or employee: should be signed in " The Name of the Company".

nem

[mystery1]

Re: Advice needed for an upcoming trial

Hi M1,

I tried to PM you on this but I see you do not accept PM's

Practice Direction 5(a).
Court Documents:
Signature by Mechanical Means:
Para 1 does not apply to claims the Claims Production Centre ( the Northampton CC Business Centre). (MCoL)
Extract from 2.1. If drafted as a member or employee: should be signed in " The Name of the Company".

nem

Signature of documents by mechanical means

1 Where, under rule 5.3, a replica signature is printed electronically or by other mechanical means on any document, the name of the person whose signature is printed must also be printed so that the person may be identified. This paragraph does not apply to claim forms issued through the Claims Production Centre.


Form of documents
2.1 Statements of case and other documents drafted by a legal representative should bear his/her signature and if they are drafted by a legal representative as a member or employee of a firm they should be signed in the name of the firm.

M1

[skilganon]

Re: Advice needed for an upcoming trial

@ Nem,

i understand what you are getting at here Nem, but i dont think that applies to the actual claim form itself ?

practice direction 22 relates to the claim form, and in this case is in breach of 3.10 ? otherwise the directions contradict themselves ??

not sure and is only my belief.

[mystery1]

Re: Advice needed for an upcoming trial

@ M1 @ nem,

hi guys, the claim form was submitted through MCOL, however the claimants solicitor signed the claim form in the name of the practice, this was put in the defence but the judge completely ignored it at the prelim. stating how great and efficient he believed the claimants solicitor to be

maybe he used to work for them ?

As above, the statement of case stands unless struck out. The court could have used their powers to do so but are not obliged too. The correct way to do so is to ask the claimant to rectify and upon failure make an application. Mentioning it in a defence etc is a very low probability of something being done about it.

M1

[skilganon]

Re: Advice needed for an upcoming trial

@ M1,

i understand M1, by the sounds of the prelim. the judge was never going to do this anyway. As the WS is due to be filed and served within 2 days i guess this route is now closed, nevertheless it wouldnt hurt to include it in the WS.

[nemesis45]

Re: Advice needed for an upcoming trial

Signature of documents by mechanical means

1 Where, under rule 5.3, a replica signature is printed electronically or by other mechanical means on any document, the name of the person whose signature is printed must also be printed so that the person may be identified. This paragraph does not apply to claim forms issued through the Claims Production Centre.


Form of documents
2.1 Statements of case and other documents drafted by a legal representative should bear his/her signature and if they are drafted by a legal representative as a member or employee of a firm they should be signed in the name of the firm.

M1

Does not apply to claim via the Claims Production Centres M1

nem

[mystery1]

Re: Advice needed for an upcoming trial

Does not apply to claim via the Claims Production Centres M1

nem

It does.

http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/pro...d_part07e#10.1

Signature
10 Any provision of the CPR which requires a document to be signed by any person is satisfied by that person entering their name on an online form.

M1

[nemesis45]

Re: Advice needed for an upcoming trial

Para 1 Rule
CPR PART 5
PARA 1
WHERE UNDER RULE 5.3 A REPLICA SIGNATURE IS PRINTED ELECTRONICALLY OR BY ANYOTHER MECHANICAL MEANS ON ANY DOCUMENT, THE NAME OF THE PERSON WHO SIGNATURE BEEN PRINTED MUST ALSO BE PRINTED SO THAT THE PERSON CAN BE IDENTIFIED.

THIS PARAGRAPH DOES NOT APPLY TO CLAIMS THROUGH THE CLAIMS PRODUCTION CENTRE.

NHCCBC/ MCOL.
I see these claim forms almost on a daily basis.

Final Response,

nem

[nemesis45]

Re: Advice needed for an upcoming trial

@ Nem,

i understand what you are getting at here Nem, but i dont think that applies to the actual claim form itself ?

practice direction 22 relates to the claim form, and in this case is in breach of 3.10 ? otherwise the directions contradict themselves ??

not sure and is only my belief.

This is why the judge ignored it I suspect the Practice Direction is clear the need for name/signature is not required on claims through the claim production centre (s)'

nem

[skilganon]

Re: Advice needed for an upcoming trial

you could be right nem, i must admit i am still unsure?

when you refer to 2.1 what cpr rule or PD is this.

to be honest the judge ignored everything, their solicitor was on the back foot prior to the hearing and promised to provide all sorts of further documents including the Deed of assignment, although in a redacted form, and agreed their clients claim was very weak with the documents that had been provided, and also agreed to provide a more legible copy of the 'agreement' however the judge decided nothing need to be disclosed, he even put on the order ' disclosure is not necessary' their solicitor was very surprised herself at the judges findings.

but hey ho, what will be will be, in modern day civil proceedings.

[nemesis45]

Re: Advice needed for an upcoming trial

English Civil Law is based on the " balance of probabilities" a judges task is to weigh that balance and decide, we may all see and interpret anything in different ways.

nem