Directors guarantee I was not told about

[Emptysack]

Re: Directors guarantee I was not told about

How much is the claim for?

Its for £3600

[Emptysack]

Re: Directors guarantee I was not told about

Thanks Amethyst for the info, I have downloaded the agreement and will have a read through it. The question is will the agreement stand up in court if it is illegible..

I think I will also try and contact the guy who won his case against them on CAG

[Emptysack]

Re: Directors guarantee I was not told about

One for Judge to decide defence does not seem to me as much use when we sign documents that are legally binding we are presumed to have read and understood them why was the shop getting the OP to sign a photocopy or is there a clear original ready to be produced.

No that is the agreement wales01man, No clear original exists

[MissFM]

Re: Directors guarantee I was not told about

I don't think it's a personal guarantee in the same sense as when a director gives a personal guarantee to take on a Ltd Co's financial liabilities (for example for a loan etc.), more that he has the authority within the company at the time of signing to commit the company to fulfill the T & C's ie he is signing on behalf of the company (separate entity) not as an individual. (Sorry that was as clear as mud, wasn't it? :tinysmile_hmm_t2

[Emptysack]

Re: Directors guarantee I was not told about

I was going to go to court and defend this myself but think I may be as well getting a solicitor,.. or would this not be recommend due to the low value of the claim?

[MissFM]

Re: Directors guarantee I was not told about

It's always a wise move to get specific, qualified legal advice - many solicitors will give you an initial half hour free to evaluate your case

[Amethyst]

Re: Directors guarantee I was not told about

As you're in small claims you probably won't be able to get a CFA so will be paying an hourly fee (I'd expect) after your first half hour (if anyone does those any more) - and of course potentially costs if you lost. For £3k odd it's probably as well to go with an offer for instalments, but depends on your circumstances and of course how strongly you feel about the PG. And what your credit file is like/ assets you have etc etc.

I do think to take this forward you would need some representation, PG's are buggers. Costs could ramp up quite quickly.

They really need to sort the consumer rights/contracts legislation to cover SME's properly.

Your argument is the agreement was unclear so you didn't know you were signing a PG - then you come up against the arguments Steve went through earlier - and also it's your word against theirs that the original was really that bad - especially when they produce the online copy of the terms.

Have you made any complaints to Screwfix ( like the CEO ) about it ?

[MissFM]

Re: Directors guarantee I was not told about

What I was trying to say above is that to give a full financial personal guarantee would be a much more formal process than signing a generic piece of paper in a shop. They mention, for example, that if it's a school it must be either the head Teacher or the bursar which would indicate that they are actually referring to the person's authority within the organization rather than anything more far-reaching

Something like this, for example: http://www.biztree.com/doc/personal-guarantee-D405

[Emptysack]

Re: Directors guarantee I was not told about

I have some good news (or at least I hope its good news)...

When I posted this thread originally I said it was next month, But it was actually next week, which was today. I was worried their solicitors may visit the forum and see what I had posted and know it was me who was looking advice.

I went to court today and the judge said (not just to me, but to everyone) sometimes its better to try and solve things outside the court as sometimes it works in favour of both parties. I thought about this and spoke with their solicitor and offered half the money in installments over 24 months. He phoned them and they rejected it straight away saying the minimum they would take would be 75% to be paid within 1 month. I refused this and said I couldn`t afford it and said it would have to be over 2 years... Again he got on the phone to them and they said they would go for 75% over one year... I thought this was a bit much so informed him I would let the judge decide as I didn`t feel a personal guarantee existed, as I was not made aware of it, nor was the form legible enough to read if it actually existed..

When the judge dealt with the case I explained that I opened a credit account in screwfix unaware it had a personal guarantee had been included in the application forms. I remember filling the form out at the time of opening the account and it was a photocopy of what seemed like an application form, it was mostly illegible. The Judge agreed that it the section that included information about a personal guarantee was illegible, as was the copy she had received and the same with the copy their solicitor was try to use against me in court. She asked was there an original copy and their solicitor produced and clear application with no details on it. The Judge agreed that it was clear and included a section about a personal guarantee but also said that it was a blank form and not the one I have filled in and signed. She then asked their solicitor if he had a legible copy of the form I had filled in to which he replied they had not been able to locate it. She then asked me if I had an original copy and I explained to her that it was the same as the copy she had received as it was a poorly photocopied application form I had filled out in the shop.

She then explained to their solicitor that she cannot hold me responsible for a personal guarantee that was not legible and said if they wished to proceed they would need to provide a legible copy with my ]signature[/URL], and that they had 4 weeks to get it otherwise it would be ruled in my favour.

As stated already I know from the time of filling in the original application form that no legible version exists (or at least im 99% sure, there is just a slight element of doubt in my mind) The form I filled in looked as if it had been photocopied a few thousand times... I just hope they don`t come back with something within the next four weeks.

[wales01man]

Re: Directors guarantee I was not told about

Magic!

[Emptysack]

Re: Directors guarantee I was not told about

Do you think they will come back with a legible agreement? Although I am 99% certain that the one I signed was as illegible as the one produced in court there is still that element of doubt in my mind as the Judge gave them 6 weeks to find it :tinysmile_hmm_t2:

[Emptysack]

Re: Directors guarantee I was not told about

This morning I received a court letter stating

"The case has been adjourned generally

IT HAS BEEN ORDERED that specific documents to be produced within 6 weeks of this order."


What exactly does this mean?"

[Amethyst]

Re: Directors guarantee I was not told about

Is there any sanction following that on the order ? and does it actually say ' specific documents' or list the documents ?

In court the Judge stated that ''that they had 4 weeks to get it otherwise it would be ruled in my favour.'' Therefore I'd say that if they don't provide the documents within the 6 weeks you can ask the judge to rule in your favour ( summary judgment).

And well done, it sounds like you had a good judge and stood your ground very well in the hearing

[Emptysack]

Re: Directors guarantee I was not told about

Thanks Amethyst, The judge seemed fair tbh, Don`t know about standing my ground.. I was pretty nervous.. but managed to get my point accross

It doesn`t list any documents, But she did say they would need to provide a legible copy of the agreement.. 6 Weeks can`t come soon enough :tinysmile_grin_t:

[stevemLS]

Re: Directors guarantee I was not told about

Well done.