Mayflower21 v MKDP LLP

[Mayflower21]

Re: Mayflower21 v MKDP LLP

OK so I will send 3 copies of my letter to the court with the claim form - probably a stupid question but should i be concerned about my signature going on a copy that the claimant will get as they could potentially use a copy of it to "create" a signed credit agreement? (I remember the warnings about never signing letters to debt collectors for this reason..............:tinysmile_twink_t2:

[Amethyst]

Re: Mayflower21 v MKDP LLP

IMO that's unjustified paranoia but I usually end up arguing on the matter. It is a court document so you NEED to sign it. Put a little squiggle or something near your signature so if it is copied you can tell (it won't be)

[Mayflower21]

Re: Mayflower21 v MKDP LLP

Thanks for the reassurance ;-)

[righty]

Re: Mayflower21 v MKDP LLP

Many people (like me) use a 'specific' (slightly different) signature when signing such documents:tinysmile_twink_t2:

[Mayflower21]

Re: Mayflower21 v MKDP LLP

So sent off 3 copies of my letter with the claim form and have now received 2 letters:

General Form or Judgement or Order:
Upon reading the court file
IT IS ORDERED THAT
1. send 1 copy of the "defence letter" to claimant (I assume they will forward a copy on?)
2. Claimant to file and serve all documentation relied upon to prove their case by 14 days from date of receipt of this order
3. Defendant to send to the court AND TO THE CLAIMANT any documents upon they wish to rely in response by 35 days from receipt of this order
4. List claim with a time estimate of 2 hours

I have also received a Notice of Allocation to the Small Claims Track form which lists a different judge to the one listed on the first letter saying that they believe my case is suitable for mediation. It lists a hearing date in April 2015.

Not sure what to do next really. I don't have any further documents to submit in relation to the first letter and don't really understand the point of mediation.......

Any advice on how I should proceed?

[Amethyst]

Re: Mayflower21 v MKDP LLP

I'd send a copy of the 'defence letter' to the claimant yourself, if the court were going to they would have done it already...... then wait to get your shiny pile of documents from the claimants in the next 2 weeks.....

[Mayflower21]

Re: Mayflower21 v MKDP LLP

Ok will do. Thanks Amethyst x

[Mayflower21]

Re: Mayflower21 v MKDP LLP

Hi Guys,

Hope you are having a nice Easter.

So update - since sending through my defence letter in October I heard nothing until this morning! To be honest I stupidly thought it had gone away (a big fan of burying my head in the sand)

I have just received a letter from MKDP in relation to the small claims hearing on Thursday next week :-/

It includes a photocopy of a credit card application form with my name and address filled in but nothing else - no signature or any other details. There is a witness statement from an MKDP employee quoting Carey v HSBC stating "a creditor can satisfy its duty under s78 of the consumer credit act 1974 by providing a reconstituted version of the executed agreement which may be from sources other than the actual signed agreement itself"

Is this right? If so why didn't they just send me a "reconstituted version" when I asked for it in April 2014? Also why have they waited since October to send me this witness statement less than a week before the court date?

Worried about going to Court next week. I get really nervous and hate speaking in public. Do I just bring copies of the letters etc?
What kind of stuff do you think I will be asked?

Thanks x

[nemesis45]

Re: Mayflower21 v MKDP LLP

Hi Mayflower,

The reconstituted agreement must have these elements,

Your name and address at inception of the agreement.
The creditors name and address at inception.

The T's & C's at inception
The T's & C's at closure
Any material amendments made during the life of the agreement
Any other document (s) mentioned in the T's & C's (e.g. the booklet of T's & C's often sent when a CC is issued)

No signatures are needed on a recon.

Your court hearing will not be " in public" a judge will "sit in chambers" so it will be you the judge and the claimants representative
( if they turn up)
You have completed and filed all your document
Defence, witness statement, so copies of those and the documents disclosed and any other documents mentioned in your
defence or referred to in the claim.

I would check with the court on Tuesday to check if the WS has been filed I've known this not to have been done.

nem

[Mayflower21]

Re: Mayflower21 v MKDP LLP

Thanks Nem,

Had a look through it and....

In regards to the Reconstituted HSBC Credit Card Application Form -

Your name and address at inception of the agreement. Yes it does
The creditors name and address at inception. Can't see an address for HSBC on the form anywhere

The T's & C's at inception Received Terms with "original terms" written on not dated - under financial details it mentions "agreements entered into before 1st January 1999 and agreements entered into on or after 1st January 1999" so guessing these are generic?
The T's & C's at closure Defaulted in October 2008 and they have included terms dated August 2008 - so yes
Any material amendments made during the life of the agreement 1 notice of variation dated july 2008
Any other document (s) mentioned in the T's & C's (e.g. the booklet of T's & C's often sent when a CC is issued) no other booklets - need to read through the T & Cs carefully to see if any are mentioned

Thanks I will check with the court on Tuesday to see if they have received the W/S - does the fact that they have waited 6 months until less than a week before court to submit it help me in anyway?

Also it's a relief to know that the hearing will be in judges chambers rather than the full courtroom experience thanks :-)

[Mayflower21]

Re: Mayflower21 v MKDP LLP

Hi Guys,

So I called the court today to check if they have received the witness statement from MKDP but they can't confirm whether it has been received or not.

I am getting ready for the scary prospect of court tomorrow and was going to bring up the following points. Can you please advise whether they have any merit?

1) If a reconstituted copy of the cc agreement is sufficient why didn't they supply it back in April 2014 and save everyone time and effort
2) I submitted my witness statement in October 2014 and they chose to submit theirs and send me a copy on the Saturday of the Easter weekend only 5 days before the court date tomorrow (Obviously in the hope that I would be away and not receive it)
3) The reconstituted copy of the cc doesn't have a address on it
4) The witness statement has my address wrong (wrong door number)
5) The copy of the Notice of Assignment sent with the witness statement also has the address wrong (different address from before but also wrong door number)

Surely as they took 6 months to put the witness statement together they could have made sure the details were correct?

If anyone can give me some advice for tomorrow I would really appreciate it.

Thanks!

[nemesis45]

Re: Mayflower21 v MKDP LLP

Hi Guys,

So I called the court today to check if they have received the witness statement from MKDP but they can't confirm whether it has been received or not.

I am getting ready for the scary prospect of court tomorrow and was going to bring up the following points. Can you please advise whether they have any merit?

1) If a reconstituted copy of the cc agreement is sufficient why didn't they supply it back in April 2014 and save everyone time and effort
2) I submitted my witness statement in October 2014 and they chose to submit theirs and send me a copy on the Saturday of the Easter weekend only 5 days before the court date tomorrow (Obviously in the hope that I would be away and not receive it)
3) The reconstituted copy of the cc doesn't have a address on it
4) The witness statement has my address wrong (wrong door number)
5) The copy of the Notice of Assignment sent with the witness statement also has the address wrong (different address from before but also wrong door number)

Surely as they took 6 months to put the witness statement together they could have made sure the details were correct?

If anyone can give me some advice for tomorrow I would really appreciate it.

Thanks!

1. It may have taken that length of time to find the correct T's & C's to construct a recon agreement, including time to look for the original.

2.I think you are correct it seems a deliberate abuse of process, which must be brought to the attention of the court

3. A recon agreement must have your name and address as it was at the inception of the agreement.

4. Not going to help much unless there is proof that this has caused the delay in your receiving the WS.

5. The NOA must have the correct address, if they have the correct address on the claim form the is no excuse for inaccuracy on the NOA. Is the address on the NOA anything like your correct address?

6. All these inaccuracies are not going to help their case, especially the late WS which you have had no time to consider in detail, have you kept the envelope in came in?

nem

[Mayflower21]

Re: Mayflower21 v MKDP LLP

Thanks Nem,

the recon does have my name and address but shouldn't it also have the address of the creditor on it too? It does not have a HSBC address on it anywhere.

the noa has the correct building address but the wrong door number

yes I have the envelope the WS came in. It was signed for delivery.

[nemesis45]

Re: Mayflower21 v MKDP LLP

Yes it must have the name and address of the creditor as it was at the inception of the agreement.
Is the post mark visible i.e. date /time of posting?

nem

[Mayflower21]

Re: Mayflower21 v MKDP LLP

Hi Nem,

The recon definitely doesn't have an address for HSBC on it.

The envelope itself doesn't have a postage date on it just the special delivery silver sticker but when I input the track and track number on the Royal Mail website it gives me the postage information. It was collected from an address in Midlands on the 2nd April and shows the signature on delivery on the 4th. Is it worth me printing it out and bringing it with me tomorrow to prove that it was posted so late?