**CLAIM DISMISSED ** CCJ for old debt - have no idea what to do - court claim

[lowlowlola]

Re: CCJ for old debt - have no idea what to do - court claim

Thanks m1 . Sorry for needing so much hand holding .

[lowlowlola]

Re: CCJ for old debt - have no idea what to do - court claim

I had my n244 hearing today .


The long and the short of it is that I am still in exactly the same postion as I was before the hearing.


However , before I go into details I want to say a huge thank you for all the support amethyst and M1 have given me, despite getting a poor result I did feel I was on an equal footing and defended my self well. I could not have even begun to know where to start without you and the confidence you gave me.


For those about to go to a hearing the judge sat at a table ,tbh it was just like being in a committee meeting at work so that relaxed me somewhat , don't be worried, I was nervous to start but soon gained my confidence.


The judges opener was to DFs solictor to ask why the documents had not been sent, he then defended saying that my claim was under CPR 31.14 which did not apply . I countered as it had not been allocated, CPR 27 did not apply etc etc, the judge was having none of it and refused to go into the ins and outs of CPR rulings.

DFs solicitor then stated that I was wasting the courts time as I had been given ample opportunity to reply to capquest letters and had ignored the debt . I stated that I am simply requesting documents to prepare my defence and seek legal advice and that DF had stated in their LBA that they had the docs and I did not see why they could not disclose. This is where it turned . The solicitor stAted that I must know if I owed £9k and that I was just fishing to get the judgement struck out, the judge then asked if me if I owed the money, I said I could neither confirm or deny and I was simply asking for documents at this stage to prepare my defence. She then asked do you have a lot of debts ? to which I replied no ,not anymore however that was not the point of the hearing it was to as for disclosure .The solicitor then drew her attention to the fact that DF had written to say they couldn't confirm when the docs would be available and that the file was on hold until they provided the docs after which they would give me 14 days to file my defence. She then asked me why I had submitted the n244 when it was clear that DF we're being reasonable. I stated that my understanding as a LIP was that I had 28 days to file and 28 days extension after that I needed to do something, I also stated that this was a very stressful situation and I wanted to resolve the matter as quickly as possible. She then wavered and said that was a good point and could see why I was asking, the solicitor reiterated that they had been reasonable , he then went for the jugular and said that I was clearly disingenuous in my claim , that I was not a typical litigant in person as I had a very clear understanding of the law regarding this matter and that I was using this process as means to avoid payment. She agreed with him and said that I had argued my points better than many solicitors and asked again do you owe the money to which I replied that I am asking for disclosure only, that the accounts number and figures did not match and she said again "you must know if you owe £9k."


So she went for the Order which was for DF to disclose but no timeframe to do so and I am to submit defence 14 days after getting the docs. HOWEver the solicitor then pushed for his costs saying again I had wasted time. she was having none of it and upped my defence submission to 21 days from the date they SEND the defence and ordered no costs. ( which means I lose out too) . I queried what this meant and clarified that there was no timeframe , she wavered but the solicitor, who was cross by now ,argued that every effort was being made to obtain the docs, her reply was "well it can't go judgement if there aren't any docs so just wait and if in six months time nothing has happened then move to strike out"


I suspect they will now make every effort to get the docs , bearing in mind the agreement was signed in 1998/9.


So that leaves me in limbo , no costs back, no timeframe to strike out. I suppose it is stayed.


One note I had on the proceeding was that the judge was very willing to hear the defence elucidate but shut me down quickly. I did feel that there was a bias in the room and that I was seen as someone trying to avoid a debt from the outset, rather than someone who was disadvantaged through lack of disclosure. I was also diss appointed that they both criticised me for being well informed and it was as if the fact that I was articulate , informed and not intimidated by the proceedings stood against me.


So in hindsight I may have been better off putting in a defence which would have been I can't defend because I have no documents.


Would you advise that I start to research a skeleton defence as I don't wants to be caught on the hop and could you point me in the right direction? I still have the non CCA compliance and the fact that the claim form is not signed by an individual.


I hope this helps others reading.


I will update as soon as I hear anything further


Thanks again amethyst and M1 .. You really are champions

[Amethyst]

Re: CCJ for old debt - have no idea what to do - court claim

Hi lowlowlola,

Firstly, sorry I didn't realise you had your hearing today, sounds like you handled it wonderfully well though, well done. It didn't go terribly, they still have the order to get the documents, you get 21 days to do a defence after that, and if they don't supply them in the next six months you could apply to strike them out.

So although yes it is still hanging over your head, they were trying to get a decision made on the claim, and you stopped them turning it around, so should be proud of yourself.

I think M1 might have a few things to say about the Judge and their views on the CPR.

I don't think you can really start on skeletons or defence until you get the documents (or not) but you can be learning all you can about the CCA requirements, as it is likely that is where your defence will lie.

Well done for today

Sharon
xx

[lowlowlola]

Re: CCJ for old debt - have no idea what to do - court claim

Thanks amethyst , I am actually quite proud of myself , although I do work in quite a combative environment so am used to putting my point across to jumped up men with huge egos :tinysmile_twink_t2:. You are right , it could have been a lot worse . Thank you :beagle:

[MIKE770]

Re: CCJ for old debt - have no idea what to do - court claim

all to familiar situation by DJs!

[MIKE770]

Re: CCJ for old debt - have no idea what to do - court claim

all to familiar situation by DJs!

Pity no government/regulator has the guts to do a Public enquiry into DJs and Government legislation abuse etc??

[lowlowlola]

Re: CCJ for old debt - have no idea what to do - court claim

So a pack arrived from df today . Crucially there is no cca signed by me but two photocopies of the original and current terms and evidence of the default notice but not the actual copy. There are also statements from 2008 onwards (which I great as it shows charges )ill scan everything up later but would be grateful for a steer for my defence now .

Also as this is live could I possibly be moved to VIP for the time being ?

As as always thanks for your advice

[lowlowlola]

Re: CCJ for old debt - have no idea what to do - court claim

Sorry should have added that no where does it state what the original credit limit was

[Amethyst]

Re: CCJ for old debt - have no idea what to do - court claim

All moved to VIP

[lowlowlola]

Re: CCJ for old debt - have no idea what to do - court claim

Thanks x

[Amethyst]

Re: CCJ for old debt - have no idea what to do - court claim

Just for reference ''HBOS credit card for the sum £9k. The original cc was taken out in 1997/8.''

[lowlowlola]

Re: CCJ for old debt - have no idea what to do - court claim

It was actually 99 . Thanks amethyst for doing this so quickly .

What are my next steps ??

[Amethyst]

Re: CCJ for old debt - have no idea what to do - court claim

Did you actually get a written order off of the court following the hearing btw ?

[Amethyst]

Re: CCJ for old debt - have no idea what to do - court claim

Next steps is to write your defence Originally Judge said 21 days I believe?

So first step is to get the documents posted up.

If the terms are a recon then you have s61 arguments. If they don't contain all the prescribed terms you have CCA arguments. We have the penalty charges and disprop time before default arguments. Default notice & assignment want looking at.

We need to go through and assess the entire case and work out what the best path to take is.

[lowlowlola]

Re: CCJ for old debt - have no idea what to do - court claim

Yes I did , I need to go and buy a scanner (lol) so will post it up but it said

the claimant sends the defendant complete copies of :
the credit agreement
the default notice
the notice of assignment


thanks so much for all your help .. I am so very grateful