Britannica-Shoesmth (re Egg loan)taking me to court but loan got PPI.How to defend?

[zhanzhibar]

Re: Britannica-Shoesmth (re Egg loan)taking me to court but loan got PPI.How to defen

1) I am not sure why I need to withdraw my defense when my defense merely state that I can't prepare a proper defense untill they produce documents as stated in POC. I would say that surely what i need to do is a supplement to my defense now that I have received a copy of the agreement. But then again I guess as this has not gone to the judge yet so they can ask me to do this. Is that right?

They can ask you to dance on a table and strip if they wanted to.

The problem you have is your "defence" is not a defence. It doesn't say that you don't owe the money because of ....... but instead it says these suckers didn't follow the court rules and that's not a defence. It is a reason to apply for compliance but not a defence to the claim.

You can amend your defence but that'll cost you in costs.

I guess my next question is whether I should amend my defence and if I do amend it on what ground; unenforceability due to PPI element? What are my chances? On the facade, I can't seem to find anything wrong with the defaullt notice nor the loan agreement but I could be wrong. Are there any new cases since Brandon v Amex relating to enforceability? I am writing this whilst at the same time staring and trying to make sense Yates v Nemo sent to me by Amethyst. Also, could you clarify how it will cost me in costs if i were to amend my defence?

2) They also asked me to accept the whole debt. This is where I got a problem with them. If they have asked me to consent on judgement being entered on the loan less PPI then I would probably accept but they didn't. They want me to accept the whole lot... I'm sure they can see there is a PPI element in that loan agreement. I really find it hard to accept that I have to pay all inc PPI. So what do I do?

Ask them. Don't forget the interest should be calculated on the ppi not just the premium you want deducted. A tomlin order might be best for you.

I am still struggling with this PPI calculations.. how to start off this calculation.. what to to incude. In the absence of all statements its a bit difficult. Should I start a new thread on the PPI forum?

3) How do I go about admitting only part of claim when in my AoS i said I am defending all?
Not sure if you can change it. I'd assume so. If you wish to settle speak to them on a without prejudice basis. A Tomlin order is what i'd try for if you are going to settle.

http://www.drukker.co.uk/publication.../#.UtBvoZBdXV4

If somebody tells me that I have a case to defend then I think I will defend till this case comes to a conclusion. The problem is at the moment I am not sure whether I have a solid defence hence why I am willing reluctantly to go for tomlin order.

[mystery1]

Re: Britannica-Shoesmth (re Egg loan)taking me to court but loan got PPI.How to defen

Honestly i think you should speak to Paul or Kate.

http://www.qualitysolicitors.com/how...le/paul-tilley

http://www.qualitysolicitors.com/how...e/kate-briscoe

An initial "chat" would be free and if they can take it perhaps a CFA would be on the cards leaving you only to pay court fess and perhaps a barrister for the trial.

If you intend to proceed i think you'll need help if you're struggling with Yates v Nemo. S18 needs good knowledge and great skills presenting it to a judge. Not a straightforward issue. Winnable yes. Not a certainty though.


Costs of amendments, i guess, would be a few hundred as you are not near trial yet.

M1

[toomanycalls]

Re: Britannica-Shoesmth (re Egg loan)taking me to court but loan got PPI.How to defen

Could you not draught an unless order in with the AQ or are you past that already?

I'd be arguing along the lines of the NOA, delivered by recorded in line with The Law of Property Act, without proof of which they have no right to enforce.

[zhanzhibar]

Re: Britannica-Shoesmth (re Egg loan)taking me to court but loan got PPI.How to defen

Hi

Having read a lot about Egg loan in Egg forum I am going to take M1 advice and go for Tomlin Order even though I still have questions about enforceability as I don't get the chance to look at notice of assignment, default notice etc.


Question is how do I get a Tomlin Order but with a different amount owed... one which exclude PPI & interest on it?

Having read the link about Tomlin order that M1 gave above am I correct in thinking that I have to apply to court to get this done?

So I think this is what I need to do before Monday 13th:
1) To e-mail Shoesmith and said that they need to give me the amount exc PPI and any interest on the PPI before I can agree. Is there a template anywhere that I could use to ask Shoesmith about this? I don't want to write the wrong thing and shoot myself on the foot later on.

2) Calculate what I think is the amount I should receive if I were to claim. I have tried to calculate estimated amount using s/sheet given by Bill-k in my other thread but I am not sure as I don't have statements. Only 1 annual statement for 2010 that Shoesmith send me.

3) Wait for their respond. Now worst case scenario, what if they said no to my request? what should happen then and by then 20th January come and gone?

This is getting a bit tense....

Zhan

[zhanzhibar]

Re: Britannica-Shoesmth (re Egg loan)taking me to court but loan got PPI.How to defen

Could you not draught an unless order in with the AQ or are you past that already?

I'd be arguing along the lines of the NOA, delivered by recorded in line with The Law of Property Act, without proof of which they have no right to enforce.

Hi

We have not got to that stage yet. At the moment as per their letter on my 1st post they want me to withdraw my defense. Should I ignore that letter & go for trial you think? Do you think I have a good ground for defense? Do we have cases about NOA re law of property act?

[toomanycalls]

Re: Britannica-Shoesmth (re Egg loan)taking me to court but loan got PPI.How to defen

This is the Law of Property Act 1925 s196.

I used this with a couple of Egg credit cards in 2012. Arrow had bought the debt after it also passing through the hands of Barclaycard. I never denied that an agreement once existed with Egg. Thisseemed to impress the DJ at a preliminary hearing following AQ where I included a draught order for directions for disclosure of both this and the DN. I denied that I had an agreement with Arrow so it was for them to prove they owned the debt and also that a DN had been issued. I simple stated that without these enforcement was not possible. He gave them an order to produce the docs, which they didn't, a couple of months later he then extended the time and they still couldn't produce anything and eventually it was struck out (10k).

Your existing submitted defence may be the stumbling block though.

[CleverClogs]

Re: Britannica-Shoesmth (re Egg loan)taking me to court but loan got PPI.How to defen

1) I am not sure why I need to withdraw my defense when my defense merely state that I can't prepare a proper defense untill they produce documents as stated in POC. I would say that surely what i need to do is a supplement to my defense now that I have received a copy of the agreement. But then again I guess as this has not gone to the judge yet so they can ask me to do this. Is that right?

They can ask you to dance on a table and strip if they wanted to.

If they sold tickets for such a performance, should the claimant or the defendant benefit as a result?

[zhanzhibar]

Re: Britannica-Shoesmth (re Egg loan)taking me to court but loan got PPI.How to defen

Hi all,

Below is the defense I sent to court. At the time, they didn't reply to my CPR 31.14 I have no other choice but to submit defense by the due date. A day after I submitted my defense, I received a letter from Shoesmith about extending the deadline.







This is the one they want me to withdraw and at the same time accept full liability of debt which include PPI. The more I write on this thread, the more I think there is something fishy going on and that Shoesmith is playing a chess game with me. I could be wrong though.

[toomanycalls]

Re: Britannica-Shoesmth (re Egg loan)taking me to court but loan got PPI.How to defen

I'm not sure I'd throw the towel in yet.

Found this thread with some further reading on the LOP Act

http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...erty-Act-1925/

[pt2537]

Re: Britannica-Shoesmth (re Egg loan)taking me to court but loan got PPI.How to defen

Do you have the envelope and the oft fact sheet ?

You also left your name on the letter.

M1

1st Oct 2008 the oft fact sheet mate

So wouldnt have needed on there

[zhanzhibar]

Re: Britannica-Shoesmth (re Egg loan)taking me to court but loan got PPI.How to defen

Hi Toomanycalls,

Thank you for that link. I have read through that. According to PT on #36 on that thread;

The Notice,if it states the date then it must be accurate. If the notice is silent on the date then it falls away.

Now in the absence of that document, how can I know?

So what shall I do between now & 20th Jan? Do I just ignore their without prejudice letter or do i make contact with them about these issues relating to NoA?

[toomanycalls]

Re: Britannica-Shoesmth (re Egg loan)taking me to court but loan got PPI.How to defen

Hi Toomanycalls,

Thank you for that link. I have read through that. According to PT on #36 on that thread;


Now in the absence of that document, how can I know?

So what shall I do between now & 20th Jan? Do I just ignore their without prejudice letter or do i make contact with them about these issues relating to NoA?

You still need them to provide docs, they do need a NOA and a DN. The NOA should come from the OC as well as stated in s136 of the LOP

Law Or Property Act 1925
s136
Legal assignments of things in action.
(1)Any absolute assignment by writing under the hand of the assignor (not purporting to be by way of charge only) of any debt or other legal thing in action, of which express notice in writing has been given to the debtor, trustee or other person from whom the assignor would have been entitled to claim such debt or thing in action, is effectual in law (subject to equities having priority over the right of the assignee) to pass and transfer from the date of such notice—
(a)the legal right to such debt or thing in action;
(b)all legal and other remedies for the same; and
(c)the power to give a good discharge for the same without the concurrence of the assignor:
Provided that, if the debtor, trustee or other person liable in respect of such debt or thing in action has notice—
(a)that the assignment is disputed by the assignor or any person claiming under him; or
(b)of any other opposing or conflicting claims to such debt or thing in action;he may, if he thinks fit, either call upon the persons making claim thereto to interplead concerning the same, or pay the debt or other thing in action into court under the provisions of the M1Trustee Act, 1925.
(2)This section does not affect the provisions of the M2Policies of Assurance Act, 1867.
[F1(3)The county court has jurisdiction (including power to receive payment of money or securities into court) under the proviso to subsection (1) of this section where the amount or value of the debt or thing in action does not exceed [F2£30,000].]

I think I'd draught an order for inclusion with the AQ asking the judge to demand disclosure upon which you can then resubmit an amended defence. I'd also wait to see what others think as I'm far from an expert with this, I just happened to have one go my way.

[mystery1]

Re: Britannica-Shoesmth (re Egg loan)taking me to court but loan got PPI.How to defen

First of all you need to decide what you're doing. You seem torn between settling minus ppi and defending.

A default notice and notice of assignment are documents they don't need to keep. They sent them to you originally, in theory anyway, and a copy is not required to be kept by them. Sadly you don't have yours or have enough evidence to persuade a judge you didn't get it. If you don't have it then it really doesn't matter if it's faulty because you can't evidence that.

If you want to settle speak to them. If you want to defend then make a huge effort to understand what can help you or go get professional help.

It seems to me that you are more inclined to defend as you can't afford not to and you're saying to hell with extra costs i'll never be able to repay it anyway. Been there done that and got very lucky. Not a good thought process though.

M1

[zhanzhibar]

Re: Britannica-Shoesmth (re Egg loan)taking me to court but loan got PPI.How to defen

First of all you need to decide what you're doing. You seem torn between settling minus ppi and defending.

Yes I am definitely torn between the two. At the moment, they gave me till 20th to withdraw my defense. If I don't withdraw then i guess it will be allocated to fast track which will include completing the AQ right?

Worst case scenario, i loose which means they will probably add up another £10k on the debt just like Amex did. I lose the case with Amex on online credit agreement with no signature so now house have a charging order with them and at the moment paying £60 a mth on a £20k debt.

[zhanzhibar]

Re: Britannica-Shoesmth (re Egg loan)taking me to court but loan got PPI.How to defen

Continue on from post above... if I let this go to fast track and loose, can they do another charging order on the house? Will the court allow the amount to include PPI?