CLAIM STRUCK OUT !!!! Need help with a court claim please

[mysticphoenix666]

Re: Need help with a court claim please

well i am assuming it is now unenforceable as the account has not been touched since before the last payment to my loan and that would of been statue barred on 12th nov had the court not been involved, but at last look it was on my credit file as around £700 overdrawn.

[mysticphoenix666]

Re: Need help with a court claim please

Okay. Have a look through the T&Cs with your credit agreement and find the bit that says payments must be made from your HSBC account. it doesn't actually state this i don't think, but the terms have been posted with the agreement above.

It would be interesting, and potentially useful, to see the letters between the FSA and yourself over this issue. i will try and scan these in, i will have a look for my letter to the FSA im sure i have a copy some where.

Unfair Relationship....possibly, lets check the terms.

So, you took a loan out with HSBC, due to their bank charges your HSBC account was overdrawn and in dispute and HSBC were aware of this. You asked HSBC to take the loan payments from an alternative account whilst you sorted your dispute and they refused, applying more charges by representing the DD, pushing your account further into the red.

Did you try and cancel the DD via your account or just through the loan side ? they froze me out of my internet banking account so i could not cancel it and they wouldn't do it in branch hence why i contacted FSA.

Did you try and make payments to the loan directly but were refused because they insisted on taking them by DD ? i had no way of paying into the loan other than the original method as at the time i wasn't aware i could do a standing order from another bank as they told me it had to be the DD. until FSA intervened.


It has been a while since I've dealt with an unfair bank charges relationshippy case so I'll have a read back over some old threads.

It COULD be a possible defence but this is a complex issue and will need solid ground work....and evidence.

So how long have we got before the defence is due in? I believe i now have until the 28th december.

Have you submitted a SAR ? No
Did you get a SAR when trying to reclaim your bank charges - with transaction lists on for your current account ? i didn't need to as i have all my statements which i copied and sent off with my bank charges claim.

as much information / documents / evidence as you can get together, do it I am pretty sure i have everything ever sent as i have never thrown anything away due to the dispute. will dig it all out.

No promises, and I wish you'd mentioned all this in your first post, but it is certainly worth looking at properly. i didn't think this would be of any help with the initial claim as i never thought they would come up with any information. i didn't want to go into too much detail and confuse the situation sorry if i have made things worse.

thanks

[EXC]

Re: Need help with a court claim please

Also was it the FSA or the FOS that helped you?

[mysticphoenix666]

Re: Need help with a court claim please

Also was it the FSA or the FOS that helped you?

it was the FSA

[Amethyst]

Re: Need help with a court claim please

Fabulous.

Do your statements clearly evidence the issues with the loan payments being bounced and the charges etc being applied?
Did you also receive late payment fees on your loan account ?

[mysticphoenix666]

Re: Need help with a court claim please

yes they should do, i only have a couple to hand i need to get them all out but they do have the loan payments being taken out and charges being applied.

im not sure regarding late payment fees there are none shown on the transaction list they have sent me only the 2 weekly DD they were taking. if i have any i dare say that i will have a letter amongst my files to show them.

[Amethyst]

Re: Need help with a court claim please

It makes much more sense now, I have to admit I thought it was a bit odd taking a loan out in March and your last payment being November....seemed a tad cheeky

Did you continue with the complaint through HSBC after they took the DD back to your current account ?? and how did that go lol...

Did you post a thread anywhere at the time you were dealing with it ?

[mysticphoenix666]

Re: Need help with a court claim please

i tried to talk to them and they refused any assistance as i said above they froze my internet access so at first i didn't know about the reinstated DD otherwise i wouldn't of made any payments as they had broke the arrangement.

When i received the first demand letter saying i had only 30 days to pay my response was take me to court as i didn't want them to get away with what they were doing.

I only had 8 weeks to go back to FSA regarding the complaint, hsbc left it just about 8 weeks before they reinstated the DD i think to ensure i would have to start again from the beginning.

[Gorang]

Re: Need help with a court claim please

I then wanted to get all the charges removed from my hsbc account for all the DD's they had presented every two weeks when they knew i wanted to pay from another bank, this they also refused (leaving my hsbc account in arrears of around £700).
my original
For some reason that i do not know hsbc decided to go against what the FSA had said and reinstated the DD on my hsbc account in oct 07 and again preceeded to try and take this money every two weeks. When i found out about this i contacted the bank who said they were doing nothing wrong as they were just trying to get their money back.

I had made my payments as agreed from my other account but after they decided they were going to try to get two lots of money for this loan i informed i would not be paying any more as they had no authorisation to reinstate a direct debit on my account without my signature, and an account they knew was no longer being used.

I fear this could be argued by the claimant that

1, your HSBC account charges and the standing order you set up from another Bank are 2 separate issues
2, as your HSBC account was already withdrawn, HSBC could not get anything out of that account except by adding to the debt with charges
3, As HSBC account was already overdrawn then there was no possible way that you would be paying the loan twice as only way the debt can arise further is by means of unpaid DD charges
4, As you knew the account was overdrawn, then you would also know that there was no risk of paying twice
5, As there was no risk of you paying twice then you had no reason to cancel payment from your other bank for the loan
6, As the HSBC account issues were a separate issue to the loan payments, loan payments should of carried on (as no risk of paying twice) and also had/started an on going complaint/claim with HSBC regarding charges

I really hope that someone has/knows of/can come up with arguments that can deal with the points above for you

[mystery1]

Re: Need help with a court claim please

I fear this could be argued by the claimant that

1, your HSBC account charges and the standing order you set up from another Bank are 2 separate issues
2, as your HSBC account was already withdrawn, HSBC could not get anything out of that account except by adding to the debt with charges
3, As HSBC account was already overdrawn then there was no possible way that you would be paying the loan twice as only way the debt can arise further is by means of unpaid DD charges
4, As you knew the account was overdrawn, then you would also know that there was no risk of paying twice
5, As there was no risk of you paying twice then you had no reason to cancel payment from your other bank for the loan
6, As the HSBC account issues were a separate issue to the loan payments, loan payments should of carried on (as no risk of paying twice) and also had/started an on going complaint/claim with HSBC regarding charges

I really hope that someone has/knows of/can come up with arguments that can deal with the points above for you

The fact her funds were dwindling due to this has a direct impact on the ability to repay, no ?

M1

[Gorang]

Re: Need help with a court claim please

The fact her funds were dwindling due to this has a direct impact on the ability to repay, no ?

First time (original DD), yes, when the loan was being paid by the HSBC account, can wholeheartedly be argued that it would of affected her ability to pay the loan

but the claimant is likely to argue that

once the new standing order was set up with a different bank and a different account which is not with HSBC then, no, as she has then got back control of her finances again and her income's are not being lost to unpaid DD charges, therefor does not affect her ability to repay, therefor no reason to cancel payment the 2nd (last) time

Hopefully it can be argued that the charges applied to the HSBC account (after the new SO was set up) did impact on her ability to pay, but this could only be argued, if she was paying money into the HSBC account to clear that debt, after the loan payment was moved to another bank

The Fact that HSBC has reinstated the DD to the original HSBC account, Yes its wrong (and needs dealt with) but it bears no affect on paying the loan from the new account once the payment for the loan had been moved to another bank, only thing that's going to happen here is the HSBC account debt will get bigger as a result of more unpaid DD charges, which now becomes a new separate issue from the loan payments


Mysticpheonix, did you paying anything towards the HSBC account debt while you were paying the loan payments AFTER you moved the loan payment to another bank????

I really hope you did

[Amethyst]

Re: Need help with a court claim please

Possibly interesting thread and letters for reference http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...urrent-account

[mysticphoenix666]

Re: Need help with a court claim please

firstly sorry for not getting back to you sooner having issues with my internet.

The first payment on the loan would of gone out as it should but the bank applied around £230 in charges a few days before so it took the money that was there to pay the loan. I tried getting the bank to return these charges as i was having some financial issues at the time which was why i had previously renewed the loan i had with the bank to try and sort out other debts i had.

Up until this point my account had been in good status pretty much all the time, if it would of been possible for the bank to return the charges none of this would ever of happened. But that wasn't the case and as they had already taken my loan payment to cover these charges (extortionate charges i might add) i had no other funds to make the first payment resulting in it all spiralling out of control.

No i did not attempt to pay any of the charges applied after this time as all the charges that are outstanding are due to the bank presenting the DD every two weeks. I don't see why i should pay charges that were imposed when the bank had no right to present a DD without authorisation when they had already been requested by the FSA to cease.

I believe the current account debt doesnt bear any significance whatsoever now as it is well over 6 years since i had any transactions to do with it, the only significance it bears is on the original dispute regarding the DD which is a big part of the withheld funds.

also the DD did have an impact on my new account as alot of my bills had gone unpaid due to charges taking my cash so when the new account was opened and i transferred my bills alot of them tried to take what was owed immediately and caused me to have charges on my new account, there was no way i could juggle two lots of charges so made my priority getting my new account sorted.

hope this makes sense.

[mysticphoenix666]

Re: Need help with a court claim please

Possibly interesting thread and letters for reference http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...urrent-account

thanks amethyst,

I do know that the loan i had was setup with an actual DD i have the DD mandate that i signed so it could and should of been cancelled.

Not quite sure how this would help my situation though, but looking at the other posts it would appear i don't have a case to defend as i should of paid their unlawful charges and put myself into a worse financial situation than i was already in.

Also i don't know if this is relevant but i am not currently working at the moment so have no funds to pay them much more than a £1 month.

[Gorang]

Re: Need help with a court claim please

also the DD did have an impact on my new account as alot of my bills had gone unpaid due to charges taking my cash so when the new account was opened and i transferred my bills alot of them tried to take what was owed immediately and caused me to have charges on my new account, there was no way i could juggle two lots of charges so made my priority getting my new account sorted.

YES this is good news to form a defence

You have to change banks to get control back as HSBC would NOT help you by stopping the charges
When you do change banks all ceditors then swamp you as its been so long since they got their money BECAUSE of HSBC charges

Sumit has to give, so you cancel the loan payments (the loan and bank that has caused all the mess) to allow other creditor to take priority (hopefully creditors like electric, gas, food, or other essentials to allow you to live)

As the 2nd DD set up is STILL being affected by the loan and HSBC then I think this has now brought what M1 said, back in play

The fact her funds were dwindling due to this has a direct impact on the ability to repay, no ?

the 2 separate issues now become 1 again, with the only difference being a different bank account but STILL the same issue

As long as it can be proved that the HSBC's loan and charges affected your 2nd account then this changes things and gives you a fighting chance as it gives you a GOOD reason for cancelling the 2nd DD for the loan


ie.
Cancelling the 2nd DD because they were trying to take payments from 2 accounts at the same time when one account is already overdrawn is NOT a GOOD reason

Cancelling the 2nd DD because living had to take priority, and, it was HSBC and their loan that caused living to take priority, IS a GOOD reason