HFC issued court proceedings - Restons Collection Charge removed

[Amethyst]

Re: HFC issued court proceedings

I think you are making it too complicated. The paperwork is in order. The payment schedule shows extra interest being added when you made late payments (eg extra £100 interest when you paid a month late etc) which will most likely account for the discrepancies. You went down to £25,£35 etc a week for a while quite soon and this will have impacted on the interest too.



================================================== ============
Dear Restons

Thank you for your letter dated 8th May 2009, which I received on 9th May 2009.

Your letter refers to a letter you sent previously, however you have not enclosed this letter, nor have I received any communication from yourselves prior to the court documents.

Please send, by return, a copy of this letter.

Thank you for supplying me with partial information in response to my request for information under the CPR.

I note receipt of; Credit Agreement; Statement of Account; Default Notice.

I still await supply of a full breakdown of the sum of £xxxxxx which you have marked as 'Collection Charge'. It is my belief that this charge is disproportionate to your costs in handling this matter and as such an unfair penalty.

You will be aware I have already made an offer to pay and made payments through a Debt Management Plan with Payplan of £118 per calendar month.

I look forward to receiving the requested information.

Sincerely

================================================== ============


DEFENCE

keep it simple - use mine as a basis - and get your ie sorted out.....on the one we did in December you had an available amoutn of 246.80 to pay to HFC...I assume your circumstances have changed since then so if you could forward me a copy of your payplan IE and/or check its all up to date and shows the £118 that you have been paying is the amount you can afford.

Add on to ask for interest to be frozen and charges stopped, also mention the lack of preaction protocols....don't try be all legal and clever etc - you are a layman and should act as one....will be more beneficial in the end as their paperwork is in order for the parts which matter to the court.

[fuzzybrain]

Re: HFC issued court proceedings

I think you are making it too complicated. The paperwork is in order. The payment schedule shows extra interest being added when you made late payments (eg extra £100 interest when you paid a month late etc) which will most likely account for the discrepancies. You went down to £25,£35 etc a week for a while quite soon and this will have impacted on the interest too.
We made the 2 missed payments up over 6 months by paying the regular amount and £25 extra per week. Are they allowed to put additional interest on the loan?

We stopped paying the regular amount in Dec 08. We made 2 payments of £118.99 in March 09 and then a payment of £127 in April and a payment of £149.70 will go to them in May. They are also additional payments of £5.00 odd that was credited to the wrong account (should have gone to my hubby's HFC account, but payplan paid my HFC account instead.

Have emailed you an I&E and creditors list

Do I CC the court and HFC into the letter to reston's or just send it straight to them???

Thanks for all your help
xxxx

[fuzzybrain]

Re: HFC issued court proceedings

Have tried working on the defence - how does this sound???


It is admitted that the Defendant has an Affinity Loan Account with the Claimant numbered 00000xxxxxx

It is admitted that the Defendant has an outstanding balance on the account however as the claimant has not sent the required statements to the defendant, the defendant has been unable to admit or deny the sums claimed.

The Defendant contests the amount of £3550.09, the ‘Collection Charge’ as entered in the particulars of claim by the Claimant.

The Collection charge is a disproportionate penalty and therefore unenforceable as it is contrary to common law.

Further, as a disproportionate penalty, it is invalid under the Unfair (Contracts) Terms Act 1977 s.4 and under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 Para 8. and sch.2(1)(e).

In the event the Collection Charge is not a disproportionate penalty then it is unreasonable within the meaning of the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 s.15.

The Defendant has repeatedly asked the Claimant to give a breakdown of this charge in order to justify the amount but they have declined to do so.

The Defendant has offered a reduced monthly payment, through the Payplan to the Claimant for repayment of this account. This offer was made to the Claimant on 23rd February 2009. This proposal included a full financial statement with regards the Defendant.

A letter was received from the claimant on the 10th March 2009 stating that the claimant had been contacted by Payplan regarding the defendant’s payment difficulties and that they would liaise with Payplan to reach an amicable payment schedule

The first payment was made and received by the claimant on 12th March 2009. The second payment was made and received by the claimant on 18th March 2009

On the 18th April 2009 the defendant received court papers from the claimant. Neither the defendant or Payplan had received any prior communication regarding court proceedings from either HFC or Restons

On 21st April 2009 a CPR request was sent to Reston Solicitors and HFC Litigation department by signed for 1st class post. Reston solicitors received the letter on 23rd April 2009 and HFC received the letter on the 22nd April 2009 (Appendix A)



On the 24th April 2009 Payplan sent a payment of £127.73 to HFC bank which cleared on the same day.

On the 27th April 2009 a CPR request was sent again to Reston solicitors (claimant’s solicitors). At the time of writing the defendant has not received a response from the claimant. (Appendix B)


A letter requesting information from the Claimant was sent to Restons Solicitors by Royal Mail Special Delivery on 29th April 2009.
The defendant received a response from Restons Solicitors with a Credit Agreement, Payment history and a default notice attached to it. Information regarding charges and the collection charge of £3550.09 was not supplied despite it being request by the defendant


No admissions are made as to the amounts claimed by the Claimants, and the Claimant is put to strict proof of the same.

[Amethyst]

Re: HFC issued court proceedings

changed a few bits about will have another look a bit later.

1: The Defendant denies each and every allegation in the Claimant's Particulars of Claim save as where specifically admitted.

2: It is admitted that the Defendant opened an Affinity?? Loan Account with the Claimant on XXDATE numbered 00000xxxxxx.

3: The Defendant fell into financial difficulty on or around xxxDATExxx due to xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.

4. On 23rd February 2009 the Defendant has offered a reduced monthly payment of £XXXXX, through Payplan as part of a Debt Management Plan, to the Claimant for repayment of this account.

5: A letter was received from the claimant on the 10th March 2009 stating that the claimant had been contacted by Payplan regarding the defendant’s payment difficulties and that they would liaise with Payplan to reach an amicable payment schedule.

6. The Claimant made a payment of £XXXXX which was received by the Claimant on 12th March 2009. A further payment of £XXXXX was received by the claimant on 18th March 2009. On the 24th April 2009 the Claimant, via Payplan, sent a payment of £127.73 to HFC bank which cleared on the same day.

7: No admissions are made as to the amounts claimed by the Claimants, and the Claimant is put to strict proof of the same.

8. On the 18th April 2009 the Defendant received court papers from the claimant. Neither the Defendant nor Payplan had received any prior communication regarding court proceedings from either HFC or Restons contrary to the pre-action protocols.

9. The Defendant contests the amount of £3550.09, the ‘Collection Charge’ as entered in the particulars of claim by the Claimant.

• The Collection charge is a disproportionate penalty and therefore unenforceable as it is contrary to common law.
• Further, as a disproportionate penalty, it is invalid under the Unfair (Contracts) Terms Act 1977 s.4 and under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 Para 8. and sch.2(1)(e).
• In the event the Collection Charge is not a disproportionate penalty then it is unreasonable within the meaning of the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 s.15.
• The Defendant has repeatedly asked the Claimant to give a breakdown of this charge in order to justify the amount but they have declined to do so.

10. The Defendant asks for relief from interest and charges and payments to be set by the court at £XXX.xx per calendar month. The Defendants financial statement is attached (APPENDIX C)

[fuzzybrain]

Re: HFC issued court proceedings

Have filled in the gaps - what's next??? Am i ok to send the letter to HFC re the SAR and the Letter to Reston's off to them???

1: The Defendant denies each and every allegation in the Claimant's Particulars of Claim save as where specifically admitted.

2: It is admitted that the Defendant opened an personalLoan Account with the Claimant on 30/08/2007 numbered 00000xxxxxx.

3: The Defendant fell into financial difficulty on or around 24/12/2008 as her partner income was reduced by his employers withdrawing overtme payments, and the defendant's self employed income also was reduced.

4. On 23rd February 2009 the Defendant has offered a reduced monthly payment of £118.99, through Payplan as part of a Debt Management Plan, to the Claimant for repayment of this account.

5: A letter was received from the claimant on the 10th March 2009 stating that the claimant had been contacted by Payplan regarding the defendant’s payment difficulties and that they would liaise with Payplan to reach an amicable payment schedule.

6. The Claimant made a payment of £118.99 which was received by the Claimant on 12th March 2009. A further payment of £118.99 was received by the claimant on 18th March 2009. On the 24th April 2009 the Claimant, via Payplan, sent a payment of £127.73 to HFC bank which cleared on the same day.

7: No admissions are made as to the amounts claimed by the Claimants, and the Claimant is put to strict proof of the same.

8. On the 18th April 2009 the Defendant received court papers from the claimant. Neither the Defendant nor Payplan had received any prior communication regarding court proceedings from either HFC or Restons contrary to the pre-action protocols.

9. The Defendant contests the amount of £3550.09, the ‘Collection Charge’ as entered in the particulars of claim by the Claimant.

• The Collection charge is a disproportionate penalty and therefore unenforceable as it is contrary to common law.
• Further, as a disproportionate penalty, it is invalid under the Unfair (Contracts) Terms Act 1977 s.4 and under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 Para 8. and sch.2(1)(e).
• In the event the Collection Charge is not a disproportionate penalty then it is unreasonable within the meaning of the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 s.15.
• The Defendant has repeatedly asked the Claimant to give a breakdown of this charge in order to justify the amount but they have declined to do so.

10. The Defendant asks for relief from interest and charges and payments to be set by the court at £150.00 per calendar month. The Defendants financial statement is attached (APPENDIX C)

[Amethyst]

Re: HFC issued court proceedings

We need to finish IE sheet to send with these too - which I will go through the one you emailed me after school run.


To Restons (with copy of defence)

Dear Restons

Thank you for your letter dated 8th May 2009, which I received on 9th May 2009.

Your letter refers to a letter you sent previously, however you have not enclosed this letter, nor have I received any communication from yourselves prior to the court documents.

Please send, by return, a copy of this letter.

Thank you for supplying me with partial information in response to my request for information under the CPR.

I note receipt of; Credit Agreement; Statement of Account; Default Notice.

I still await supply of a full breakdown of the sum of £3550.09 which you have marked as 'Collection Charge'. It is my belief that this charge is disproportionate to your costs in handling this matter and as such an unfair penalty.

You will be aware I have already made an offer to pay and made payments through a Debt Management Plan with Payplan of £150 per calendar month.

I enclose a copy of my amended defence which has been lodged with the court.

I look forward to receiving the requested information.

Sincerely

For court, write up an N244, without a hearing, for permission to amend the defence following receipt of the proper information to enable you to identify the debt. You don't need to do it in red ink as the entire defence has altered.

1: The Defendant denies each and every allegation in the Claimant's Particulars of Claim save as where specifically admitted.

2: It is admitted that the Defendant opened an personalLoan Account with the Claimant on 30/08/2007 numbered 00000xxxxxx.

3: The Defendant fell into financial difficulty on or around 24/12/2008 as her partners income was reduced by his employers withdrawing overtime payments due to the current economic climate. The defendant's self employed income also was reduced.

4. On 23rd February 2009 the Defendant has offered a reduced monthly payment of £118.99, through Payplan as part of a Debt Management Plan, to the Claimant for repayment of this account.

5: A letter was received from the claimant on the 10th March 2009 stating that the claimant had been contacted by Payplan regarding the defendant’s payment difficulties and that they would liaise with Payplan to reach an amicable payment schedule.

6. The Claimant made a payment of £118.99 which was received by the Claimant on 12th March 2009. A further payment of £118.99 was received by the claimant on 18th March 2009. On the 24th April 2009 the Claimant, via Payplan, sent a payment of £127.73 to HFC bank which cleared on the same day.

7: No admissions are made as to the amounts claimed by the Claimants, and the Claimant is put to strict proof of the same.

8. On the 18th April 2009 the Defendant received court papers from the claimant. Neither the Defendant nor Payplan had received any prior communication regarding court proceedings from either HFC or Restons contrary to the pre-action protocols.

9. The Defendant contests the amount of £3550.09, the ‘Collection Charge’ as entered in the particulars of claim by the Claimant.

• The Collection charge is a disproportionate penalty and therefore unenforceable as it is contrary to common law.
• Further, there is no provision in the original agreement allowing the Claimant to apply such a charge.
• Altervatively, as a disproportionate penalty, it is invalid under the Unfair (Contracts) Terms Act 1977 s.4 and under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 Para 8. and sch.2(1)(e).
• In the event the Collection Charge is not a disproportionate penalty then it is unreasonable within the meaning of the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 s.15.
• The Defendant has repeatedly asked the Claimant to give a breakdown of this charge in order to justify the amount but they have declined to do so.

10. The Defendant asks for relief from interest and charges and for payments to be set by the court at £150.00 per calendar month. The Defendants financial statement is attached (APPENDIX C)

[fuzzybrain]

Re: HFC issued court proceedings

THanks hun for this, I could never have done it on my own!!

Thank you very very much

[Amethyst]

Re: HFC issued court proceedings

You've done fine hun.

On your IE you sent me - the Total Paid - is that since the loans/credits etc were taken out, or just since you started up the DMP ? Is this the payplan info ?

[fuzzybrain]

Re: HFC issued court proceedings

Yes its the payplan info and it's what we paid since being in the DMP with payplan - although there additional payments that have been made as payplan made a mistake and paid the money that should have gone into hubby's HFC account into my HFc account, so there is an extra £20ish paid

The balances are't correct either, as all the companies have shove charges etc on. Also there are a coule of debts that aren't listed as they supplied CCA which are unenforceable (or in 1 case non existant!) - so i stopped making payments

[Amethyst]

Re: HFC issued court proceedings

Okay if that is the IE Payplan are basing things on you are best to stick with that. So attach that to the N244/Defence and the letter to Restons.


Theres quite a lot of discrepencies between that and the one we worked on in December...but I would hope Payplan went through everything with you and things have been juggled about to suit without making things too tight.

[fuzzybrain]

Re: HFC issued court proceedings

Things have been a lot easier since we entered the DMP - haven't been overdrawn once!!! So it feels about right, but i'm sure our creditors would want more if they could get it!!

I received a letter from the court today to say they had sent a copy of my defence to the claimants and that they had 28 days to respond or the case would be stayed. The court did say that the claiants may be in conatct to try and settle this matter without proceeding with court action - is this a standard letter?

Right plan of action

Send HFC the letter tellign to stop being stupid and send the SAR like good little boys

Send restons letter and a copy of the defence

Do i respond to the court with an amended defence or wait and see what restons do???

[Amethyst]

Re: HFC issued court proceedings

Things have been a lot easier since we entered the DMP - haven't been overdrawn once!!! So it feels about right, but i'm sure our creditors would want more if they could get it!!

I received a letter from the court today to say they had sent a copy of my defence to the claimants and that they had 28 days to respond or the case would be stayed. The court did say that the claiants may be in conatct to try and settle this matter without proceeding with court action - is this a standard letter?

YEs it willl be off the back of the defence and is completely standard with lack of information - Restons will respond saying something daft like we dont understand why this defence has been entered we've given all info....blah etc...it extends things a bit but I would still proceed and send your letter and amended defence to Restons....what you could do is ask if they are in agreement with you amending the defence, then it makes it more straightforward entering it at court, negating need for any application hearings or such like. but see what anyone else thinks...personally I think the case is pretty straightforward now with all paperwork in order (so far as courts concerned) and delaying/ arguing about unnecessary points might just serve to increase your costs burden. I would fully expect you to get a CCJ installment order at £150 (if thats the amount payplan are now paying?) and permission for restons to apply for Charge on house.


Right plan of action

Send HFC the letter tellign to stop being stupid and send the SAR like good little boysyes do that

Send restons letter and a copy of the defence

Do i respond to the court with an amended defence or wait and see what restons do???

Remember this is only MY view on things, I tend to take things the simplest route for the best outcome for you - you have to know when to fight and when to accept that you fecked up a bit and just sort out payments that you can afford now and continue to afford.

If circs change for the worse in the future you will be able to go back to court for a redetermination of the installment amount - ALWAYS do that through the court, don't just stop paying or arrange lower amounts with Restons/HFC or whoever they pass it on to, especially if they have a charge on the house.

They'll also at some point in the future write and offer you a lump sum payment lower than the ccj figure, and also will try to tell you they want MORE than the installment amount etc....you can ignore that kind of letter (unless you have a lump sum by that point).


oops getting ahead here....but the point being when things are in order in the main then I think the most beneficial route is to get payments set properly by a court. (I havent heard a dicky bird from Restons/HFC since mine was set barr the above two letters which i just ignored)

[fuzzybrain]

Re: HFC issued court proceedings

You are right and although i'm annoyed at how they have done it I have accepted the fact that Restons will get the CCJ, after all i owe the money and it needs to be repaid - i've no gripe against that (although i'd prefer not to have a CCJ) However I want to avoid the Charging Order at all costs - i don't like them having that kind of power over me to be honest.

We have been regualrly paying them since Feb 2009 and the per month £150 is affordable and we can maintain that until the debt is cleared (which will probably be in about 12 years time!!).

However i really do think that their figures are wrong. I added all the payments I made and detracted them from the total loan amount of what the agreement was for and there was over £600 difference. i know that in the great scheme of things and considering the loan amount it isn't huge, but i'll be ^^^^^ if i'm giving them a penny more than they are entitled to!!!

Why would there be such a difference and and i am entitled to ask them to explain the difference???

[fuzzybrain]

Re: HFC issued court proceedings

I am a bit confused with the defence - it doesn't state in the defence how much I actually admit to and what I believe I owe. Should I mention this in the defence?

Something like:

The defendant admits that she owes the following sum of ????? as the defenant has made several payments totalling ?????? to the claimant since the claim has been filed with the court which have not been deducted from the total

[Amethyst]

Re: HFC issued court proceedings

You need to work out if you want to admit a specific amount or get the claimant to prove how much you owe.... your figures don't account for your arrears interest etc don't forget.


At the moment you are saying

7: No admissions are made as to the amounts claimed by the Claimants, and the Claimant is put to strict proof of the same.

You have mentioned payments made since the claim was entered which you have put

6. The Claimant made a payment of £XXXXX which was received by the Claimant on 12th March 2009. A further payment of £XXXXX was received by the claimant on 18th March 2009. On the 24th April 2009 the Claimant, via Payplan, sent a payment of £127.73 to HFC bank which cleared on the same day.

you can expand that to say something like Totalling £XXXX since this claim was entered into court. ??