Lowell vs Tmum21

[Tmum21]

a copy of what constitutes a default notice that a company sends out (not an actual copy of yours) and a company record of a default notice sent out on such a date, judges tend to accept,

PRA Group (UK) Limited v Goodinson (Court of Appeal Ref B2/2020/0436) (Jan 2021)– Application for permission to appeal for a second time granted on a preliminary issue – The DDJ found on the balance of probabilities that a default notice compliant with the Consume Credit Act 1974 was sent on x December 20xx and the Circuit Judge held that he was entitled so to find. Although question of fact real prospect of success – raises an important principle or practice as to the extent which the existence of a compliant statutory notice can be inferred

Thats interesting to know but its defeating the object of the CPR request through isnt is. But the object is to prove they sent these things if I have got it right? So they shouldn't have it both ways. Some docs they cant prove they sent anything but they can make a letter up by reconstitution?

[echat11]

What I think you need to do is file a supplementary Defence with flaws in the evidence (with the court) they have sent. What date did you receive the last documents they sent, the date?

[MIKE770]

MIKE770

Not difinative, but judges it has been said take company records of default issued? all I am saying! different judges may have different views albeit higher court judgement set the trend, lower courts judgments are not. sure others will comment also???

[echat11]

Thats interesting to know but its defeating the object of the CPR request through isnt is. But the object is to prove they sent these things if I have got it right? So they shouldn't have it both ways. Some docs they cant prove they sent anything but they can make a letter up by reconstitution?

I agree, but that's DJ's / court system / etc.

[MIKE770]

I agree, but that's DJ's / court system / etc.

as you are finding out like many of us in the past!

[echat11]

Can you check your emails for any 'varied' Shop Direct T & C?

[MIKE770]

Terms - The Very Group might give an idea what looking for??

[Tmum21]

SHOP DIRECT ACCOUNT 1

CREDIT AGREEMENT LOOKS O.K.
LETTER OF ASSIGNMENT - NO HEADER
A BLANK TEMPLATED DEFAULT NOTICE - no information at all in the Default Notice.

Can you check if they varied the Terms and Conditions since you signed the original agreement? i.e. varied interest rate etc.

CAPITAL ONE - ACCOUNT 2

CREDIT AGREEMENT, they haven't provided copies of the 'varied' Terms & Conditions.
LETTER OF ASSIGNMENT LOOKS O.K.
DEFAULT NOTICE (INCOMPLETE) - you don't know if there is more information in the letter.

ACCOUNT 3

CREDIT AGREEMENT, they haven't provided copies of the 'varied' Terms & Conditions.
LETTER OF ASSIGNMENT LOOKS O.K.
DEFAULT NOTICE (INCOMPLETE) - you don't know if there is more information in the letter.

I'm assuming that if they varied T & S's for one Capital One account, they would have done the same for the other. Yes this is correct, both on the same day


Sorry I was getting round to replying...

There's no variation I can see for account one.


The default notices for account 2 and 3 - Ive found the full letter with signature.

The info I blanked off on default notices was the overdue amount, my name and the account number. Does the overdue amount not meant he same as the default amount?

Account 2 = the amount default notice only states £377 - but they are claiming £2000+ I've now found the rest of that letter with a signature on .

Account 3 = £150 default, statement says £62x.xx

Is there any scope to say about unreasonable charges? £350 of fees added onto account 2!!

[echat11]

SHOP DIRECT ACCOUNT 1

CREDIT AGREEMENT LOOKS O.K.
LETTER OF ASSIGNMENT - NO HEADER
A BLANK TEMPLATED DEFAULT NOTICE - no information at all in the Default Notice.

CAPITAL ONE - ACCOUNT 2

CREDIT AGREEMENT, they haven't provided copies of the 'varied' Terms & Conditions.
LETTER OF ASSIGNMENT LOOKS O.K.
DEFAULT NOTICE LOOKS O.K.

ACCOUNT 3

CREDIT AGREEMENT, they haven't provided copies of the 'varied' Terms & Conditions.
LETTER OF ASSIGNMENT LOOKS O.K.
DEFAULT NOTICE LOOKS O.K.

[echat11]

SHOP DIRECT ACCOUNT 1

CREDIT AGREEMENT LOOKS O.K.
LETTER OF ASSIGNMENT - NO HEADER
A BLANK TEMPLATED DEFAULT NOTICE - no information at all in the Default Notice.

Can you check if they varied the Terms and Conditions since you signed the original agreement? i.e. varied interest rate etc.

CAPITAL ONE - ACCOUNT 2

CREDIT AGREEMENT, they haven't provided copies of the 'varied' Terms & Conditions.
LETTER OF ASSIGNMENT LOOKS O.K.
DEFAULT NOTICE (INCOMPLETE) - you don't know if there is more information in the letter.

ACCOUNT 3

CREDIT AGREEMENT, they haven't provided copies of the 'varied' Terms & Conditions.
LETTER OF ASSIGNMENT LOOKS O.K.
DEFAULT NOTICE (INCOMPLETE) - you don't know if there is more information in the letter.

I'm assuming that if they varied T & S's for one Capital One account, they would have done the same for the other. Yes this is correct, both on the same day


Sorry I was getting round to replying...

There's no variation I can see for account one.


The default notices for account 2 and 3 - Ive found the full letter with signature.

The info I blanked off on default notices was the overdue amount, my name and the account number. Does the overdue amount not meant he same as the default amount?

Account 2 = the amount default notice only states £377 - but they are claiming £2000+ I've now found the rest of that letter with a signature on .

Account 3 = £150 default, statement says £62x.xx

Is there any scope to say about unreasonable charges? £350 of fees added onto account 2!!

You can mention 'unreasonable charges', the bulk of the debt is made up of charges and interest.

[Tmum21]

Thank you so much.

I've looked through my emails with a toothcomb, and they are very coy about it, it says any changes to terms will be included on the statements.

Well that is a hell of a lot of statements to look through, so I have emailed very at their credit agreements address. asking if they varied my terms at all since the start of my credit agreement. Was this a good move? May be a bit late now they need to reply in a few days

[Tmum21]

Is it worth adding up what I actually borrowed to compare?

I thought when I notify them of job loss etc they should freeze the account?

[echat11]

Thank you so much.

I've looked through my emails with a toothcomb, and they are very coy about it, it says any changes to terms will be included on the statements.

Well that is a hell of a lot of statements to look through, so I have emailed very at their credit agreements address. asking if they varied my terms at all since the start of my credit agreement. Was this a good move? May be a bit late now they need to reply in a few days

Yep might be too late.

[echat11]

Is it worth adding up what I actually borrowed to compare?

I thought when I notify them of job loss etc they should freeze the account?

Did you send a SAR request? If you informed them job loss, there should be notes on your account.

[Tmum21]

I meant to say the documents I only received on 15th Feb. Last year they didnt fulfil the crp request as they didnt include assignment notices for cap 1 (from memory) and I think the default for account 1 was just the screen print.