**won** Hello, and woe! - Court Claim for 'dangerous' DIY...

[jaguarsuk]

I'd put the costs in and see what you get, don't ask don't get. Needs to be sent to the court and other party 24 hours before any hearing.

[2222]

Good luck in court. Does the other party know how to discontinue?

[swiss_toni]

Good luck in court. Does the other party know how to discontinue?

Thanks, good question though, it should be fairly simple, from what I can gather the original, new style Moneyclaim account is still active despite the transfer and it looks like he only needs to click a button.

Needless to say not a peep out of our HR so I'll be on the phone to them Monday. It doesn't really matter that I'm not back at work for a while as they are 100 miles away anyway

[swiss_toni]

Well, this is just making me angry now, the time this idiot is costing me when I have better things to be doing.

15 minutes on the phone to HR Monday to be passed back to a different receptionist who told me HR were on an away day for the whole day and the other receptionist should not have put me through.

25 (honest) on hold to HR this morning, who told me they can't find my original email (bear in mind this is an internal system!) so I had to resend it.

Then I receive the letter as a PDF which is completely wrong, it is merely a summary of my annual income which I could have produced a P60 to prove.

Just had to email back explaining what I asked for previously which was just the loss of earnings for the day.

I'll add it on to my costs but the danger is that the court will just think I am making them up and I will end up with nothing other than work hours lost (if it gets that far - although all signs are it will this guy is so sure of his right to £2k compo).

[jaguarsuk]

Well, this is just making me angry now, the time this idiot is costing me when I have better things to be doing.

15 minutes on the phone to HR Monday to be passed back to a different receptionist who told me HR were on an away day for the whole day and the other receptionist should not have put me through.

25 (honest) on hold to HR this morning, who told me they can't find my original email (bear in mind this is an internal system!) so I had to resend it.

Then I receive the letter as a PDF which is completely wrong, it is merely a summary of my annual income which I could have produced a P60 to prove.

Just had to email back explaining what I asked for previously which was just the loss of earnings for the day.

I'll add it on to my costs but the danger is that the court will just think I am making them up and I will end up with nothing other than work hours lost (if it gets that far - although all signs are it will this guy is so sure of his right to £2k compo).

What a farce, best not to claim for time spent on the phone in court and stick to being reasonable as possible. Hopefully the claimant will see sense before 19th August and do the right thing. It wouldn't surprise me if he just doesn't respond to the order and turns up for the hearing.

[swiss_toni]

It wouldn't surprise me if he just doesn't respond to the order and turns up for the hearing.

Yes, that's exactly what I will think will happen, I won't be cancelling the leave until I have it in writing the hearing is cancelled

Either just turn up or he will copy and paste what he has already written and re-submit it, perhaps.

[jaguarsuk]

Yes, that's exactly what I will think will happen, I won't be cancelling the leave until I have it in writing the hearing is cancelled

Either just turn up or he will copy and paste what he has already written and re-submit it, perhaps.

Nothing would surprise me, unfortunately while it has been made quite clear that what has been submitted isn't enough that doesn't stop people doing that sort of thing.

What I find funniest is that even if he comes up with a CoA and the judge accepts it as such, he'll have to disclose the date of it and then could be told his claim's dismissed as Stat Barred.

[2222]

If you want HR to write you a particular letter, why not send them a complete draft, so they just have to print it? Otherwise, it could take ages.

[swiss_toni]

If you want HR to write you a particular letter, why not send them a complete draft, so they just have to print it? Otherwise, it could take ages.

Would love to but only payroll have access to the data / software to work out the exact lost payment for the shift, it is slightly complicated.

[swiss_toni]

Right, so I now have the HR letter adding a lovely £185 odd to the costs. (I'd estimated £125, lucky I'm not in charge of payroll eh!)

Do I simply add this overall costs document, with the HR letter, to the draft document I posted earlier (link also below) and send to both court and claimant with the appropriate notice of service form also to the court?

I made two offers along the way to the claimant to discontinue without costs to me but also adding a draft and slightly redacted (so as not to reveal my current employer etc...) document of costs I would seek similar to the link below if he continued. I have read about the misunderstandings and misuse of Without Prejudice (Save As To Costs) endorsements but hope that this was the correct thing to do?

I imagine that if I am lucky enough I will mention these after any judgement. Is it worth enhancing the preamble on the costs document to really emphasise what a garden path I have been lead up - or, the opposite, should I pare it back to literally a list of costs because presuming in advance I will win on the day might look a bit arrogant?

p.p.s no travel costs as I can see the words 'Courthouse' from our porch side window

[jaguarsuk]

Right, so I now have the HR letter adding a lovely £185 odd to the costs. (I'd estimated £125, lucky I'm not in charge of payroll eh!)

Do I simply add this overall costs document, with the HR letter, to the draft document I posted earlier (link also below) and send to both court and claimant with the appropriate notice of service form also to the court?

I made two offers along the way to the claimant to discontinue without costs to me but also adding a draft and slightly redacted (so as not to reveal my current employer etc...) document of costs I would seek similar to the link below if he continued. I have read about the misunderstandings and misuse of Without Prejudice (Save As To Costs) endorsements but hope that this was the correct thing to do?

I imagine that if I am lucky enough I will mention these after any judgement. Is it worth enhancing the preamble on the costs document to really emphasise what a garden path I have been lead up - or, the opposite, should I pare it back to literally a list of costs because presuming in advance I will win on the day might look a bit arrogant?

p.p.s no travel costs as I can see the words 'Courthouse' from our porch side window

You need to remove the below:

Due to the Claimant’s insistence in continuing, despite previous offers for the Claimant to withdraw his claim without costs-to-date being payable to the Defendant, the Defendant has felt duty bound to fully defend the claim on all detailed aspects despite the major grounds for defence outlined above.

You made those offers Without Prejudice Except as to Costs and this document will be seen before any judgement is made, those offers can only be disclosed after the ruling has been made and in a request for costs. You will also be able to present copies of those letters at that time to evidence the offers.

I would go with:

The Defendant contends that the Claimant has acted unreasonably in attempting to pursue this claim, which is without extant cause of action, and/or related contract or tort. Even if it were not it is time barred and if it were not time barred, it is unfounded and based on a combination of supposition and hearsay evidence. The Defendant has gone out of his way to act reasonably and demonstrate all of this to the Claimant, to no avail.

The Defendant therefore respectfully requests that in accordance with CPR 27.14(2)(g) the Claimant be ordered to pay the Defendant’s costs in addition to any court fees incurred. The Defendant will claim the sum of £19.00 per hour as a Litigant in Person in accordance with CPR PD 43-48, Section 52.4, save for times where direct losses were incurred to the Defendants part-time employment and current business activities, where the total loss is requested.

The hours stated in the table below include research as a Litigant in Person to achieve the activity described as the Defendants unfamiliarity with the legal process and handling a claim has been more time consuming than it may have been for a legal professional.

The Defendant’s breakdown of costs are therefore, as follows;

You only need to get the costs schedule in 24 hours before a hearing, so hold your horses until we know whether he's going to comply with the court order. You may incur further costs if he does in having to file and serve a supplementary witness statement for example.

Did the order containing him having to file Cause of Action detail anything about parties filing and exchanging Witness Statements?

[swiss_toni]

Thanks; I did feel concerned that the costs should maybe not contain reference to anything what would be WP before the event. As ever your updated version reads better anyway.

WRT getting the costs in 24 hours earlier; as I only have 3 days before the hearing to find out if he has even complied with submitting the required Cause of Action document, how does this work - is it filed to the court only? As if he has complied, I would have to send it Monday on the hope he might get it Tuesday before 1130AM?

The reason I might have been getting ahead of myself is that I am off on a camping trip next week, and will arrive back Friday 16th, I'm then at work Monday 19th and 20th before the hearing, though thankfully not until 1200 so could even walk over to the court if needed to check things. Obviously I would have been in on the 21st too! Hence why I have been chasing this HR letter as I just knew I could have come back to no reply if I hadn't.

There is nothing about witness statements in any of the 2 most recent court letters (as posted previously) by the way.

[jaguarsuk]

Thanks; I did feel concerned that the costs should maybe not contain reference to anything what would be WP before the event. As ever your updated version reads better anyway.

WRT getting the costs in 24 hours earlier; as I only have 3 days before the hearing to find out if he has even complied with submitting the required Cause of Action document, how does this work - is it filed to the court only? As if he has complied, I would have to send it Monday on the hope he might get it Tuesday before 1130AM?

The reason I might have been getting ahead of myself is that I am off on a camping trip next week, and will arrive back Friday 16th, I'm then at work Monday 19th and 20th before the hearing, though thankfully not until 1200 so could even walk over to the court if needed to check things. Obviously I would have been in on the 21st too! Hence why I have been chasing this HR letter as I just knew I could have come back to no reply if I hadn't.

There is nothing about witness statements in any of the 2 most recent court letters (as posted previously) by the way.

You can post the costs schedule first class to the claimant on the 20th and post them over at court, that give you all day on the 19th to find out if he's actually filed anything. I mean you can do it earlier if you want, but any cost arising between then and the hearing you would be less likely to be given.

[swiss_toni]

Have just noticed the order is to file and *serve* the Cause of Action. Which I imagine is usual just that I hadn't spotted it.

Whilst he might not understand the 'serve' part, at least if I *do* come home after my holiday to a letter outlining his new, improved, 100% satisfaction guaranteed CoA we'll know he's filed something. I might even be back soon enough on Friday 16th to go to the court to double check he hasn't filed it without copying me in. I imagine with the hearing on the 21st in reality a 3 day deadline would mean Friday 16th by close of court?

[jaguarsuk]

Have just noticed the order is to file and *serve* the Cause of Action. Which I imagine is usual just that I hadn't spotted it.

Whilst he might not understand the 'serve' part, at least if I *do* come home after my holiday to a letter outlining his new, improved, 100% satisfaction guaranteed CoA we'll know he's filed something. I might even be back soon enough on Friday 16th to go to the court to double check he hasn't filed it without copying me in. I imagine with the hearing on the 21st in reality a 3 day deadline would mean Friday 16th by close of court?

Yes that is correct, 4pm on the 16th is his deadline.