Robby7307 Personal Guarantee Claim

[robby7307]

So very sorry to high jack this tread please can it be moved to the correct place ? I have seached high and low the forum on n181 and how to post. None are the same as my case in the forums
I have received a n181 not sure how to fill it in the court is also asking for a proposed directions which I have not got a clue, the track is the fast track
In short I owe the money via a personal garantee I just need more time to negotiate a repayment program so I admit the claim please help Thank you

[Amethyst]

Hiya, I'll sort you a thread out - can you tell us a bit more about the claim please - have you filed a defence ?

Done robby7307 you can use this thread now.

So this is over £10k presumably if you have the N181 directions questionnaire?

Do you have copies of the PG documents ? ex -business loan / overdraft ?

[robby7307]

Thankyou AMETHYST for you reply you my defence was it was a company debt but they said in the summons they have a personal garantee and I am sure they have as I remember signing one

[Amethyst]

Okay, have you asked them for a copy ? What is your defence that's entered in court at the moment ?

Directions for the N181 depend on the case so will really need to know a bit more info xxx

Who is the claimant ? Who was the business loan with ? Did you have a business partner / director etc also with the guarantee ? Is the company dissolved/liquidated etc ?

I'll get the standard directions for you just for ref - the claimant will likely propose directions in any case. ( https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/pr...28/pd_part28#I - if it doesn't scroll to the right bit - it's Appendix A of PD 28 )

[robby7307]

Not asked for a copy of agreement I am 90% sure they have.One my defence was "The goods were purchased by the company this is a company debt not personal" the claiment is a electrical supplier which we had credit account with. No partner just me the company is just sitting there at the moment doing nothing

[robby7307]

Just looked at the link I have not got a clue, what happens if i dont send the Proposed directions ? thank you again for your help

[Amethyst]

Was that literally all you put for your defence ?
Did the particulars of claim state it was a personal guarantee ?
How much is the claim for ?

[Amethyst]

Personal Guarantee example from someone elses thread which seems likely to be what you might have signed.... and there's no discussion about seeking independent legal advice so might be worth getting hold of what you actually signed to see if it is actually valid and whether they can actually call in the PG.

Is the company a Ltd company ? currently just dormant, so not dissolved or liquidated? no funds available in the business accounts presumably ?

They say I signed a personal guarantee form. I asked to see this and they sent me a copy of the ‘Credit Account Application Form’. It was a single page form which I faxed t them and I clearly understood I was entering into an agreement on behalf of the company. There is no mention of a personal guarantee.

The part I signed is Titled ‘Customer Declaration’. I assume Customer is the company and not myself personally. The exact text of this section is:

I/We the undersigned apply to ********* Ltd for Credit Facilities and declare that the information given above is accurate. I/We agree to trade on ***** Ltds terms and conditions of sale as are applicable at the time of the transaction and confirm that I/WE have read the sale terms contained in this form. I/We the undersigned being directors of the applicant co , jointly and severally guarantee payment of all financial obligations to ******* Ltd, including any arising from any increase in the credit limit granted in future. ******** Ltd reserves the right to terminate this agreement for credit forthwith without notice upon a breach by the customer of any Terms and Conditions and all monies then outstanding will become due forthwith.

This form must be signed by the Sole Trader, All Partners and if a Limited Company a duly Authorised Director.

Name…………………..Sign……………………..Position………………Date………

There was no ‘sales Terms’ contained in the form.

[robby7307]

Yes thats all I put on my defence yes the claims said there was a personal guarantee its says claim relates to a personal guarantee provided by the in the defendants in the claimants account aplication document final paragraph and signed by the defendant on the 22nd March 2015
The claim is for 12518.50

[robby7307]

I just need some time so i dont get a judgement

[robby7307]

so how do I fill in the n181 and do i need to send in the Proposed directions thank you so much for your help

[GBExile]

You should post an exact copy of that form you signed just blanking your names & company name & the lender. Nowt else. Do not delete the ltd jor plc etc after names just the name.

IE joe bloggs ltd.. Just delete joe bloggs leave the ltd to read.

Because what AMETHYST posted doesnt mean anything without the crossing out of "we" & "I" etc & company/individual names.

If they cannot forward you a copy of the "I"s & "We"s crossed out then who is to know what that agreement ment?

I cant work it out. Could mean anything.

[robby7307]

I have not got a copy of the form
I need to fill out and send back the N181 not sure what to fill in and what tick box to fill
also do not know how to write a proposed directions
Thank you for any help

[Amethyst]

Of course I know nothing about your case than what you have said on here so this is just an idea of what draft directions are really.

When does your N181 need to be in?


A - mediation - YES and YES

B2 - You want to select your local COUNTY court - so if you put your postcode in the court finder https://www.gov.uk/find-court-tribunal you should find your nearest county court OR hearing centre ( you don't want magistrates or crown court as they are for criminal cases ) In reason you want to put something like ' I am an individual and a litigant in person and the Defendant in the case'

C - leave blank

D1 - just put No as you don't at this stage intend on making any formal application to the court ( although the particulars of claim and the defence are both pretty minimal personally I'd get the copies of documents asap then apply to amend your defence and request full particulars )

D2 - it's fine in fast track

D3 - leave blank

D4 + J - You want standard directions which you attach on a separate sheet

E - No

F - Yourself

G - 3 hours - then any dates you're on holiday etc

H - blank

I - No

Okay then Standard Directions - CPR 28 and PD 28 ( https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/pr...es/part28#28.3)

Very basically this means you give each other a list of documents to do with the case by a certain date, then ask each other to view those documents, then each write a witness statement and include the documents/evidence relevant to your case, the you (as claimant) file a court bundle with all of that stuff in and any authorities required. It is probably even this reduced, overkill, but the court will write their own directions anyway and other side should submit theirs.




-----------------------------------------------------------------------

In the Northampton CCBC County Court

Claim Number xxxxx

YOUR NAME

Claimant

v

THEIR NAME

Defendant

-------------------
DRAFT DIRECTIONS
----------------------

On ______________________ 2016 District Judge _________________ sitting at [ court ]
Ordered that;

1: The claim is allocated to the Fast Track.

2: Disclosure of Documents will be dealt with as follows
a) By _______________ on ___________________ both parties must give each other standard disclosure of documents lists
b) By ______________ on ____________________ any request to inspect the original of, or to provide a copy of, a disclosable document must be made.
c) Any such request, unless objected to, must be complied with within 14 days of the request.

4. Evidence of fact will be dealt with as follows;
a) By ________ on ______________ both parties must serve on each other copies of the signed statements of themselves along with any evidence on which they intend to rely.

5. No permission is given for expert evidence.

6. The claimant shall lodge an indexed bundle of documents contained in a ring binder and with each page clearly numbered, and a case summary of no more than 250 words, at the court not more than 7 days and not less than 3 days before the start of the trial.

[Amethyst]

Right - when you signed the account opening form you did not get / keep a copy ? Nothing in your business documents at all ?

You need a copy - they should be disclosed in disclosure but you could ask the claimant to provide a copy.
Their particulars really literally says 'in the last paragraph' ? they haven't put any of the wording ?

Do you have all invoices / account documents that show how the bill got to £12k ?

Do you own your own house ? I think you said you're intending to settle this - how are you doing that ? and is that from personal funds or business funds ? Stalling the company by just going along with court action is a risky tactic. So saying yes to mediation and a months stay should be utilised to get documents and negotiating your bum off. There is a high costs risk - could be a few thousand extra if you get to a hearing.

do the other side have a solicitor representing them ? ( I'd guess not if that is their entire particulars of claim )

Stephen Barrett v Brandon Hire Ltd was a similar case on a similar 'last paragraph' tool hire/account account document.

The document he signed headed "… account" contains only one effective contractual term. There is a heading "AGREEMENT": "Please read and sign the following declaration" and then what is fair in considerably smaller print text follows:

a. "I (the undersigned) agree that all transactions of hire or sale entered into by my company (known as 'The Customer) shall be subject to Brandon Hire plc's Conditions of Hire or Sale, as the case may be operative at the time of any contract of hire or sale. I will make full settlement of all monies due within one month from the date of Brandon Hire's invoice and I have answered all questions on this application form truly and fully. I hereby, personally guarantee payment in respect of all sums due from my company ('the Customer') to Brandon Hire plc, together with all ancillary costs incurred.

3. I have retained a copy of this for my records."

4. There are essentially two grounds of appeal. The first is that the guarantee which was contained in those words was not something of which fair notice had been given to Mr Barrett, who had signed immediately below the "Signature of Director".

5. In my judgment there were two answers to that contention. The first is that he having signed this document, he was bound by its terms and the L'Estrange v Graucob [1934] 2 KB 394 which is admittedly old authority and has been followed ever since, and there is a distinction between such cases and cases where the contractual term relied upon is in a separate document or is simply the subject of notice as in all of the ticket cases.

The contractual text is very short. The Director is directed to read it. If he does not read it, he takes a certain chance. That is what happened in this case if he did not read it. The wording is clear beyond peradventure. It seems to me there is no arguable issue on that point.