County Claim Form / Cabot

[dylan]

I have received a claim form from Cabot Financial via Mortimer Clarke solicitors. I have followed your steps and completed online the AOS and am completing the letter templates as I wish to defend this. On the CPR31.14 letter it says "To enable me to file my defence and/or counterclaim, I require inspection of documents you mention in your statement of case ahead of filing my defence on ....". What date do I enter? Sorry if I am being thick. Also, it is for a loan of £14144.76 + costs; can I still use this route?

[Amethyst]

Morning Dylan

Yes you can use the same letters, indeed, if the claim is for a personal loan debt.

Your defence date is 33 days from the date of issue so you want to file it at day 30 really, so use that a the date in the CPR letter.

With a higher value claim, over £10,000, it is possibly going to be in fast track rather than small claims, although if it is a straightforward loan contract it could stay in small claims. The difference is that costs can be a lot higher if you went on to lose a hearing - but that is a way off yet.

Do want any want to post the particulars of claim up and tell us a little about the debt - how old it is ( when opened / when defaulted), standard bank loan or restricted use ? Any disputes over the loan etc.

If if there are other questions you need Cabot to answer before you defend you could also send a part 18 request as well as the cpr 31.14 for documents mentioned but we'll know if that's needed once we know a bit more about the case.

Xxx

[dylan]

Thank you.
This is for a personal loan debt from around 2007-2009. It was Lloyds then defaulted and sold to Cabot. It has been off the credit file for some time now. I had been paying £1.00 a month ever since default. This was one of 5 debts with Lloyds which all had gone to Cabot. In February 2016 after some telephone hassle I agreed to 5 payments to clear the accounts. On 2 (this one included) I agreed to an amount plus 12 monthly payments. However, there was a mistake on their paperwork and on their offers to clear they had agreed to settle for one monthly payment. I paid all five offers immediately, ensured they accepted the monies, emailed them to confirm payment had been paid and accepted. I thought as it is a written offer they cannot retract it. I attach a scan of the letter and payments made by BACS. I contacted this forum and a solicitor by phone who thought it was a 'grey' area. There has been much communication from them to explain they made a mistake and the debt is still owed. However, they have now gone for the whole amount.

[dylan]

Apologies it was 4 accounts, 4 payments.

[Amethyst]

So they sent that same letter for four different accounts with a settlement amount - I can see you paid the £88.33 in that letter. Was the Lloyds debt alone £14k ? and they mistakenly offered to settle for £88.33 ? Did they accept the other three payments as full settlement and amend the credit file entry accordingly ? Particularly what happened to the other one that you'd agreed 12 monthly payments on by phone prior to receipt of the offer letters ?

and yes, it's grey - I think either a SAR or part 18 request for the call recording might be in order or simply pleading the call stated the same as the letters would force them to produce a recording if one exists ( however then if it doesn't come until disclosure there could be costs implications ) ....

might help to see the comms since

also - the other three - presume different percentages of the debts offered as settlement ?

if it is found to be a mistake that you weren't entitled to rely on you might be able to argue for the original settlement offer .... how soon after you informed them you accepted and paid their offers did they come back to you claiming it was a mistake ?

[dylan]

Account 3458686 = o/s £9983.15 settled for £998.32 letter received confirming £.00 balance
Account 3454584 = o/s £10572.54 settled for £1057.25 "

Account 3357605 = o/s £ 19390.01 letter offered £120.00 to clear account letter revised to £1521.24 & 12 x 120.00
Account 3356886 = o/s £14233.09 letter offered £88.33 to clear account, letter revised to £1423.30 & 12 x 88.33

I have not received letters confirming .00 balance on these two. They re-issued a revised demand dated 29/3/16 a month after the payments. These payments were not returned or declined. I sent 2 letters in March merely stating fact 'paid as requested to clear account'. They wrote to me August 30 2016 'our silence does not constitute acceptance'. Letter received from Mortimer Clarke 5/12/2016 for account 3356886 threat of pay in 14 days or CCJ. I replied 9/12/2016 by stating fact.

Since this date statements have appeared ad-hoc; August 2017.

Received a letter 27th March 2018 Corrected Notice of Sums in Arrears that should have been received 30/112009 on Account 3357605. Since this there has been no follow up on Account 3357605.

Received a letter Mortimer Clarke 19th June 2018 Account 3356886 charging order unless payment proposal in 7 days. Emailed 25th June (rather than write as letter not received until 23rd June) with scan of documents showing proof of payment.
Letter received Mortimer Clarke 5th July 2018 attaching Cabot's letter of 30th August 2016. I reiterated fact and made complaint.
Letter received Mortimer Clarke 25th July attaching Cabot's letter of 30th August 2016 14 days to respond or issuing claim.
Claim Form issued 6th September, received 16th September as away; read the website and went online and noted defending.
I have the 2 template letters ready to send? Is this still applicable?

I can scan the correspondence tomorrow when at work if you want to read them in full.

[Amethyst]

So you're expecting another claim for the £19k at some point ... they have really screwed up

Basic contract law - offer acceptance intention consideration seems pretty covered so it will be what their argument is as to mistake ( guessing it'd be a unilateral mistake that you were aware of and took advantage of )


Admin@legalbeagles.info

You mentioned coming on the forum before and talking to someone - I can't see anything - do you recall who you spoke to ( maybe Paul Tilley ?)

[Amethyst]

Received a letter Mortimer Clarke 19th June 2018 Account 3356886 charging order unless payment proposal in 7 days.


Charging order ? Bit of a threat as they haven't got a judgment. At least you know what they're after.

[dylan]

Unfortunately I cannot recall or find it. I remember his answer being basic contract law and quite matter of fact! It was a single question and single answer. Clear cut.

I made the 10% offer on all 4 accounts and ended up agreeing to more than I could afford on the 2 remainder accounts. In hind sight, I should have been stronger and said 'no' to trying to clear them. I am still not in a position financially to do more so thought it was worth the risk/grey area; they were being sloppy after applying pressure.

However, having got 10 years older I would like some peace of mind and do not want to risk another CCJ especially for the whole amount. What is your recommendation? Am I still posting the two template letters (mindful of the fastrack)?

[Amethyst]

The CCA and CPR requests can be standard yes. They will still need the agreement, default and assignment to enforce so that;s okay.

However I'm thinking about the Part 18 - whether to do one - or just ask for call recordings under a data protection act request.

I think you might be best arguing the settlement should only be rescinded to what the offer should have been, but then only if they argue unilateral mistake.... so the initial defence would be the issues from the CCA and CPR requests plus that you settled in 2016 following a letter.... and see if they raise the issues themselves.

If they did, in response to your defence, then at that point you could offer the original offer under a consent order ( case stayed for security ) -- or possibly your original of 10% which was accepted etc on the other two accounts

When was the last letter received from them about the issue with the offer? ( and were they offering to go back to what the offer should have been - ) - and up until when ? ie when did they start saying 'no offer pay the full amount' ?)

[dylan]

I am attaching the letters from Cabot and Mortimer. I have always replied the exact same statement 'paid as per your offer letter'.

editing

[dylan]

Remainder 2 letters

editing

[dylan]

I apologise I do not know how to take out my details without defacing the originals? Thank you for your attention to this.

[Amethyst]

I'll edit for you two mins

[Amethyst]

Letters