Claim for outstanding balance: defence and counter claim

[kupidonstars]

Hi there,

We have an ongoing dispute with a bespoke fitted storage unit supplier.

Today received court papers. Claim for just over £1.1k plus interest.

Issued date: 28th July
Forms receipt: 31st July

Claimant is small independent supplier, £1.1k is 25% balance

Dispute final payment is due, due to issues, detailed below. We don't consider work complete or complete to expected standard.


Original fitting was March.

Issue highlighted.

Initial remedial work not until mid May

Further issues (like shelves being too high so we can actually use them as when you put something on them the drawers don't close, one of the drawers wobbles badly and has been fitted incorrectly, there is damage in 2 places (one of which the supplier has tried to patch up without telling us), one of the cupboards scraps as its bulging in the middle so you can't use it without it scraping open and closed) were reported.

Supplier (claimant) has demanded payment. We responded laying out why we don't consider payment due until completion (we consider completion the point at which we can satisfactorily use what we have paid for). They responded saying they will rectify wat they consider legitimate after we pay, we responded laying out why we didn't think that was right and offered a series of options (refund, finish and repair, ADR), they responded with a letter before Action, we responded saying laying out our claim again. Today we received documents from court.

We want to respond in full defence of non-payment laying out our case as per the above (we have emails, pictures, video and a quote from an independent supplier for repair and for replacement).

We would like to counterclaim.

I wanted to get an idea of actions from here and, in your very varied experience, the chances of a successful defence of our position

It's a bit stressful but I feel we have good grounds, given the circumstances, issues, problems getting communications with him, the quote from another supplier suggesting there are issues to be resolved, but I want to be relatively certain and fair in our counterclaim. Ideally, we wanted it finalised and repaired but we have lost all faith that he will do this or do it to a good standard, so we are open to removal and refund. But this has been going on for ages, we've got to be ultra careful when we walk past it, we aren't even polishing it lest they accuse us of damaging it. There is stuff that should be in there dotted around the house, we've not been able to get on with any of our other home improvements as if it needs to be removed it is likely to cause some damage around it (to floor and walls)

We've spent so many weekends and evenings trying to get hold of him, and resolve it.

Can anyone advice on tone of defence, detail, and counter? Just blowing my mind a bit.

If there is already a similar case on here would appreciate a link to that, too.

[echat11]

The Consumers Rights Act 2015. This act ensures goods are of satisfactory quality, fit for purpose, and as described, and that services are carried out with reasonable care and skill. If goods or services are faulty, consumers have rights to repair, replacement, or refund, depending on the circumstances.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/contents

a) First Acknowledge the Claim, you can do this online via MCOL, this will give you 28 days (plus 5 days postal) in total to work on your defence (don't leave it until the last minute).

https://legalbeagles.info/library/gu...ledge-a-claim/

b) When you do the Defence / Counterclaim, you are addressing the Claimants Particulars of Claim, when you do the Witness Statement further along, that should contain all the evidence, documents etc. You'll have to pay a fee for the Counterclaim.

Guides and resources for Litigants in Person: https://legalbeagles.info/forums/for...erson-handbook

c) Send a CPR 31.14 request to the claimant, they have 7 days to provide all the documents they are relying on to make the claim against you, again get Proof of Postage.

https://legalbeagles.info/library/gu...-of-documents/

d) Here's some Guidance (posted for info only) - https://helix-law.co.uk/how-do-you-defend-court-claim/

e)This is an example Defence, much of it doesn't apply, but it helps to give you a structure, you will have headings etc

https://legalbeagles.info/library/gu...-court-claims/

If your not sure ask.

[echat11]

EXC can approve post?

[EXC]

Done.

[echat11]

Done.

That was 'super quick'!! Thanks.

[echat11]

EXC I tried to edit it, it's disappeared.

[EXC]

I've approved it again. Maybe the best thing is to leave it and explain any edits in another post.

[echat11]

I've approved it again. Maybe the best thing is to leave it and explain any edits in another post.

It's fine, the it's the edited version.

[kupidonstars]

EXC Hi there, I am very sorry, I have tried to reply to this a couple of times and says posted on next page but doesn't appear. I am 100% sure it's something I am doing wrong but do you know why? Can you see the responses?

[echat11]

No can't see the responses, try deleting 'cookies' for this site.

[kupidonstars]

Hi there,

I did try to reply to this last week but for some reason the reply did not post.

I wanted to thank you for the reply, I followed the first few steps already (so helpful) so I have provided AOS and asked for "agreed terms" to be provided as per the particulars.

I had a couple of questions and it may be that no one can help, but I wanted to check in.

The request for payment (final 25% of money, 75% they received before starting and when requested) was sent 10th June.

We replied immediately with pictures and a description of some of the outstanding issues stating that we couldn't pay until the unit was sorted. On 25th June (so 15 days later) we followed up as we had not heard back from them. They finally responded on 30th June demanding payment, stating why each of the things we had raised were not issues ("the shelf should be that high and you approved the CAD", "You shook my hand when I left", "This wasn't raised initially", "that damage isn't on our pictures"). Note they have not sent any evidence or pictures of their own to us yet.

So timeline:
10th March: fitting began
20th March: after problems, initial attempt at fitting completed
21st March: photographs sent to claimant of 12-14 issues we immediately found
March and April: significant back and forth on dates, one arranged and cancelled by them. We notified them that 19th May was last day we were available until m-d June due to travel for work and personal
19th May: 2 man, full day effort requiring full unit to be removed and refitted
10th June: we are back from holiday and come to use the unit and find fundamental problems
10th June: payment request
10th June: we replied with pictures
25th June: we chased
30th June: they sent a reply saying 'Pay us'
6th July: we replied, after speaking with citizens advice, with a series of options "take it out and refund us, we get someone else to finalise and you can pay, we can go to ADR or we can follow a legal route" we asked them to provide ADR details
10th July: Letter before Action giving a 22nd July deadline, with no reply form pictures but a description of their issues, total cost etc
21st July: somewhat rushed we replied saying no, these are fundamental issues and need to be resolved prior to final payment, we did not want to continue to exchange emails unless they were related to ADR which we were still open to, or them arranging a date to resolved
28th July: Claimant filed to court

Their particulars are very basic and say effectively:

"Defendant commissioned bespoke understairs storage unit with agreed materials, CAD design and stage payment schedule. The final balance of X amount remains unpaid despite reminders and remedial work offer and completed."

We are structuring a defence along the following:

We dispute completion due to significant problems with the unit and we further dispute completion to required standards
We also dispute agreed the CAD design. We agreed the aesthetic and saw the CAD design in a visit to our home when the claimant flicked through how the unit would look. We have never received any CAD drawings and think it unreasonable to expect us to check their measurements even so, I am not a cabinet maker and neither is my partner.
I also don't think they have followed the proper pre-action protocol in terms of timeline (debt, against an individual) but I am not clue up on this enough to be confident.

Any advice on which points to specifically lean into when we submit our defence would be very much appreciated. This is quite stressful, as I am sure you can all attest to, given that the value is low enough its not worth getting a solicitor (although we will counterclaim for refund so we can get someone else to refit it, we are now not convinced he is capable of completion of works). I will take any and all advice at this stage

[echat11]

When you do your Defence, you are addressing their 'Particulars of Claim'. So you are addressing the following:

"Defendant commissioned bespoke understairs storage unit with agreed materials, CAD design and stage payment schedule. The final balance of X amount remains unpaid despite reminders and remedial work offer and completed."

So you aren't going into the evidence photos etc at this stage. You've got a 'timeline', you only state the relevant dates that address their PoC, , as an example.

1. The Defendant received the claim [Claim Number] from the [Name of Court – often Northampton or Salford] County Court on [Date you received the claim]

2. Each and every allegation in the Claimants statement of case is denied unless specifically admitted in this Defence.

3. The Defendant agreed for a storage unit with the use of agreed materials to be built / installed on XX/XX/XX.

4. The Claimant carried out the work on XX/XX/XX.

5. The Claimant failed to carry out the work to the required standard under the Consumer Rights Act 2015.
You can describe in a summary form the works that you have issues with.

6. The Claimant was informed immediately that the work carried out was of a poor standard.

etc.

https://legalbeagles.info/forums/for...erson-handbook

After you've done it, leave it for a couple of hours, read to see if it makes sense, then keep doing that, you'll pick out any errors.

[kupidonstars]

Hi everyone,

Thank you again for your help with this. We submitted our defense and counterclaim, have also returned the directions questionnaire (the claimant has only left 15 days of the next 3 months as available for mediation).

I had question regarding timelines for counterclaims, does the original claimant (defendant to counterclaim) have deadlines for filing defense in a similar way to the original claim? Appreciate they are treated differently but I can't find a definitive answer (that I understand as a layperson) as to whether there is a 'deadline' or not for them to respond to the particulars of my counterclaim?

Thank you again

[atticus]

Yes. See CPR 15.8

Reply to defence and defence to counterclaim

15.8 If a claimant files a reply to the defence

(a)the claimant must

(i)file the reply with a directions questionnaire; and

(ii)serve the reply on the other parties at the same time as it is filed; and

(b)the reply should form one document with any defence to counterclaim, with the defence to counterclaim following the reply, unless the dates on which they are due to be filed differ from one another.

[kupidonstars]

Thank you very much, I am grateful. I can't see a clear timeline, is it 14 days or 28 days for defenses to counterclaim (original claimant submitted directions questionnaire but no defense to my counterclaim that I can see on MCOL or via post)