Being evicted from a squat

[Horn]

Evening!

I have recived court papers today (claim for possession of property) from the land owners MMC (Manchester City Council) that they plan to evict me from one of there properties I live at as a squatter. The count hearing is on the 10th of March and they lodged the papers last November.

The property has been boarded up and vacant for over a decade, as the whole area is due for a complete redevelopment at some stage, though non of the neighbours know when!. The house was purchased by MCC for over 3.5 million pound back in 2005 and I have been hear since last June (2023) as I entered the property though an open window and I then changed the locks and of late have taken all the boards down and done some work to the property (I also have an electric account with Eon and A water account with united utilities). In September they asked me to vacate the property by way of serving notice on the property and then I asked them do you wish to settle the matter out of court and they asked what my proposal was. My first proposal was that you give me a self repairing and insuring long lease (since it appeared they had no immediate plans to do anything with the property. However that offer was declined. I then made the point that I think MCC should not be using public funds in such a way and the property should not just be left there abandoned as it should benefit the community at large in some way. No comment was made! I then made a second offer that they rehouse me and I referred then to the out reach team that attempted and failed to rehouse me last year prior. They came back and offered me temporary accommodation in a Hotel near the airport. I asked if they where ale to grant me transport to and from the city (as it is in the middle of no where with no facilities such as shops and Launderette) and they offered me a one week bus pass, I asked what about after then and no comment was made! I asked how long would you let me stay there because last time you gave me a hotel (the year before). You did an assessment on me not long after and you decided to evict me (homeless) because I did not meat your criteria for housing. As I was there for only 2 months I asked if this situation would be the same, again no comment! Furthermore; They said that they where under no obligation to rehouse me (however I not quite certain that is the case) and I asked if they had a housing policy that I could view and again no comment was made. So I declined this offer on the ground that it was not long enough time period to class as rehousing me.

So they have lodged the papers for court. And In there claim they state that they offered me housing but I refused! They also stated that they plan to demolish the house (though I and the neighbours do not believe that this will be done any time soon!)

So my question hear today is do I have a reasonable argument that the court should allow me to stay at the property until they actually do want to demolish the building and rebuild over it and hence make good use of the land?

Thanks

[pc52straw]

I sympathise with your position, but you don't really know if the council agrees the building is safe and habitable, and the council may have reasons to think it is unsafe for occupation that you're not aware of.

Where I live, a large residential block has just been demolished because it was going to be much cheaper to do that and build to modern safety standards than renovate. It sounds totally perverse, but it can happen especially on properties built before the 2nd World War.

There could be an option to apply for judicial review if you were homeless before you squatted, and... "it was the local authority's refusal to house the squatter that led them to occupy the property as a squat." - per https://england.shelter.org.uk/profe...udicial-review. I can't say if this applies in your circumstances, you'd need to seek legal advice and talk to Shelter in your area.

If there is proof that the property you're squatting in doesn't need a lot of work to bring it up to safety standards, and you could afford to pay a subsidised rent, maybe talk to the MP, mayor, council and the press, to see if the building you're talking about could be converted into several self-contained flats or a very large HMO / hostel and alleviate some of the local housing pressure.

Councils do have a duty to put empty / abandoned properties to good use, as well as having a duty of care to provide housing that is safe. They really should get creative if there are ways to kill two birds with one stone.

[Horn]

I sympathise with your position, but you don't really know if the council agrees the building is safe and habitable, and the council may have reasons to think it is unsafe for occupation that you're not aware of.

They have made no claim to this what so ever in there claim form!

Where I live, a large residential block has just been demolished because it was going to be much cheaper to do that and build to modern safety standards than renovate. It sounds totally perverse, but it can happen especially on properties built before the 2nd World War.

The reason they want to demolish the house is because at some stage in the future the whole area is being demolished for a new build complex

There could be an option to apply for judicial review if you were homeless before you squatted, and... "it was the local authority's refusal to house the squatter that led them to occupy the property as a squat." - per https://england.shelter.org.uk/profe...udicial-review. I can't say if this applies in your circumstances, you'd need to seek legal advice and talk to Shelter in your area.

Yes I was homeless before I squatted there and yes they failed in there duty to rehouse me prior to that.. How do I apply for this JR. Is there a court form I fill out or something?

If there is proof that the property you're squatting in doesn't need a lot of work to bring it up to safety standards, and you could afford to pay a subsidised rent, maybe talk to the MP, mayor, council and the press, to see if the building you're talking about could be converted into several self-contained flats or a very large HMO / hostel and alleviate some of the local housing pressure.

I dont have any proof that it is safe to live in. But to the best of my knowlage it all looks ok. But again they have not set this out in there claim form and yes I could afford to pay some rent on it. But as I said before that the plan at a later stage is to demolish the entire area

Councils do have a duty to put empty / abandoned properties to good use, as well as having a duty of care to provide housing that is safe. They really should get creative if there are ways to kill two birds with one stone.

Do you know where I can find such information out
1. Councils have a duty to make good use of there properties
2. Council have a duty of care to house people

Thanks

[JK2054]

Evening!

I have recived court papers today (claim for possession of property) from the land owners MMC (Manchester City Council) that they plan to evict me from one of there properties I live at as a squatter. The count hearing is on the 10th of March and they lodged the papers last November.

The property has been boarded up and vacant for over a decade, as the whole area is due for a complete redevelopment at some stage, though non of the neighbours know when!. The house was purchased by MCC for over 3.5 million pound back in 2005 and I have been hear since last June (2023) as I entered the property though an open window and I then changed the locks and of late have taken all the boards down and done some work to the property (I also have an electric account with Eon and A water account with united utilities). In September they asked me to vacate the property by way of serving notice on the property and then I asked them do you wish to settle the matter out of court and they asked what my proposal was. My first proposal was that you give me a self repairing and insuring long lease (since it appeared they had no immediate plans to do anything with the property. However that offer was declined. I then made the point that I think MCC should not be using public funds in such a way and the property should not just be left there abandoned as it should benefit the community at large in some way. No comment was made! I then made a second offer that they rehouse me and I referred then to the out reach team that attempted and failed to rehouse me last year prior. They came back and offered me temporary accommodation in a Hotel near the airport. I asked if they where ale to grant me transport to and from the city (as it is in the middle of no where with no facilities such as shops and Launderette) and they offered me a one week bus pass, I asked what about after then and no comment was made! I asked how long would you let me stay there because last time you gave me a hotel (the year before). You did an assessment on me not long after and you decided to evict me (homeless) because I did not meat your criteria for housing. As I was there for only 2 months I asked if this situation would be the same, again no comment! Furthermore; They said that they where under no obligation to rehouse me (however I not quite certain that is the case) and I asked if they had a housing policy that I could view and again no comment was made. So I declined this offer on the ground that it was not long enough time period to class as rehousing me.

So they have lodged the papers for court. And In there claim they state that they offered me housing but I refused! They also stated that they plan to demolish the house (though I and the neighbours do not believe that this will be done any time soon!)

So my question hear today is do I have a reasonable argument that the court should allow me to stay at the property until they actually do want to demolish the building and rebuild over it and hence make good use of the land?

Thanks

Nope you are in their property, they are entitled to have it back. You have no argument sorry

[Horn]

There could be an option to apply for judicial review if you were homeless before you squatted, and... "it was the local authority's refusal to house the squatter that led them to occupy the property as a squat." - per https://england.shelter.org.uk/profe...udicial-review. I can't say if this applies in your circumstances, you'd need to seek legal advice and talk to Shelter in your area.

So I have my N461 judicial review claim form hear with me
N461 Judical Review - Claim form (02.22)
But I am a bit unsure of what to fill in the following

Page 8/ Section 3.- give details of the decision to be reviewed
Page 11/ Section 5- statement of facts, and
Page 12/ Section 6- Detailed statement of grounds

[EXC]

With respect, unless you have formal legal advice/representation, together with deep pockets, you won't have any hope of navigating the Judicial Review process.

[PallasAthena]

Have you spoken to Shelter or any housing charity to see if you have a case? You may already be out of time if the possession notice was served last September and the eviction papers were served on you last November. JR applications must be brought within 3 months of the action you are complaining about.

Have you looked at the costs of bringing a JR? Hundreds of £££ just to submit the application and thousands of £££ in legal fees if you lose. Do you have the money? How are you going to raise it?

Focussing your legal efforts on the forthcoming eviction hearing in March might be a better use use of your time.

[Horn]

The claiment lodged the court paper back in November and I have only been notified of it a week or so ago

I can't find any solicitor that can be bothered to do this even though I qualify for legal aid (it dose state on JR form you can apply for legal aid)

Shelter seam to be cut from the same cloth as the solicitor companies they recommended (and it would appear the claiment manchester city council as well). As shelter have stated that they are not taking any new cases on including giving any advice which would include commenting on there wording from there web site

Which leeds me to; from what shelter have stated, dose it have any legal status? Or are they just gassing BS for some sort of claim to have a purpose for what they do?

[echat11]

Every Council has a Housing Officer, maybe they can help.
Although I appreciate things have moved on.

[PallasAthena]

You can't apply for legal aid for JR yourself. Only a solicitor can and you can't find any firm willing to act for you. So applying for JR yourself (as you are trying to do) you will have to pay the fees yourself. JR is just taking you down a rabbit hole, you are almost certainly out of time already. If your JR is to challenge the local authority's decision to bring possession proceedings then at the very latest they took the decison last September as that is when you say notice was attached to the property.

Better to seek advice on how to resist the eviction proceedings at the hearing on 10th March.

Your comments on Shelter are unjustified. They are a voluntary Charity, not a government organisation. The help they can provide is limited by how much money is donated to them. If they don't receive enough donations to hire more advisers they can't take on new cases. As it's a Charity no their advice pages do not have any legal status but they are widely respected for their knowledge and expertise about housing and homelessness.

[Horn]

Every Council has a Housing Officer, maybe they can help.
Although I appreciate things have moved on.

I have contacted there main phone line, and i requested a homeless assesment and i was told to go online as we no longer do them over the phone (things are getting worse not better) the instructions i was give where incorrect! then she refered me to a soap kitchen (mustard tree) I said I think you are now taking the micky and she said I am now going to end this call


So I decided to have something in writing. I emailed then on the two email addresses they listed on there voice mail (requesting a homless assesment). One came back RTS not know and the other I have had no responce from

[Horn]

You can't apply for legal aid for JR yourself..

I am fairly sure that the guide lines stated you could!

September as that is when you say notice was attached to the property..

Noticed was served asking me to leave not saying that we are going to evict you (whos side are you on?)

Better to seek advice on how to resist the eviction proceedings at the hearing on 10th March..

???

Your comments on Shelter are unjustified. They are a voluntary Charity, not a government organisation. The help they can provide is limited by how much money is donated to them. If they don't receive enough donations to hire more advisers they can't take on new cases. As it's a Charity no their advice pages do not have any legal status but they are widely respected for their knowledge and expertise about housing and homelessness.

These socalled charities get there funding from the same source goverment grants

I guess putting that quote on the form is my best bet then

[PallasAthena]

I have no idea why you respond to the suggestion that you should seek advice on how to resist the eviction proceedings at the hearing on 10th March with "???". It seems self-explanatory advice to me.

But you seem resistant to any of the advice on here that isn't what you want to hear so if you want to waste your time and energy on a JR attempt instead of preparing to resist the eviction attempt in court that's your choice. I'm off the thread.

Do come back and let us know how your JR is going.

[Horn]

I have no idea why you respond to the suggestion that you should seek advice on how to resist the eviction proceedings at the hearing on 10th March with "???". It seems self-explanatory advice to me.

But you seem resistant to any of the advice on here that isn't what you want to hear so if you want to waste your time and energy on a JR attempt instead of preparing to resist the eviction attempt in court that's your choice. I'm off the thread.

Do come back and let us know how your JR is going.

so et me get this stright! you post that I should concentrate more on the hearing then I question that and now you withdraw from the thread

So to conclude so far. the only usefull information hear can be found in post 2 about the DR

[islandgirl]

I doubt that most taxpayers would be happy for a JR to be funded through legal aid to allow a squatter to remain in the building they have taken over with no right to do so. You are also I believe liable for council tax for the length of your occupation. https://england.shelter.org.uk/profe..._tax/liability
The council cannot knock down/rebuild the building with someone in it - you have no idea what their plans are or when they will take place.
Perhaps best to concentrate on the council rehousing you if they have a legal duty to do so. Bring proof that they failed in this duty previously and ask the court to force the council to give you a reasonable offer of accommodation? All of course depends on whether your situation makes the council totally liable to house you - we have no idea if this is the case.