Dilemma over CCJ and huge solicitors' charges

[Kathy321]

Thankyou PEZZA54. I think my phone auto-corected it. It is actually CNBC!!

No-one has got back to me from the solicitors. I have phoned every day this week. Today on the phone the payment clerk at the solicitors looked at my file and told me that one of the partners had put a note on my file to say that they are not going to consent to have the judgment set aside.

The payment clerk says that the reason on my file for this is that my letter (saying I was going to be away and asking them to contact me via email) got to them too late. He says that the court issued the claim on 11/11/24 and my letter got to them on 13/11/24. But I know from the CNBC that the claim was issued on 13/11/24! To me it feels vindictive that they 'just happened' to get the claim issued the same day they received my letter. And via the postal system, knowing I could not receive it.

Anyway, whether my letter got there 'in time' or not seems to be irrelevant. As far as I can see, I have 2 good reasons for not receiving the claim form:
1) I was away from home, and have the travel documents and passport stamp to prove this.
2) Once I made the solicitors aware that I was away from home, they should have told the court. Regardless of whether my letter got there before or after the claim was issued.

Am I missing something here?

I have asked the payment clerk to get the solicitor to email me tomorrow with his official response to my set-aside request. If it is 'no', then I will pay the full application fee on the phone to the CNBC immediately (I don't want to piss off the court), and DHL my N244/Witness statement/Draft defence.

Does this sound sensible to you? (or any other previous contributors?)

[Pezza54]

Sorry you are right with CNBC
What you intend to do sounds fine

[Kathy321]

The solicitors has just phoned me back (an actual solicitor). I think he has finally read my file and my email. He didn't seem to know the conditions under which a CCJ could be set aside though (and i am an expert now!). He said that it was enough that the paper claim form was sent to my home address. I said it was not enough, as he could have emailed it to me, and anyway I was not home to receive it. He seemed a bit confused by this.

He says that they WILL consent to the application. He says that his client will only consent if I pay the £118 application fee, and that they 'will be seeking to recover all costs' (which in my case is £23XX minus the £100 ground rent that I paid in November). I don't want to pay this £23XX. Are there any other extra costs that I could be liable for? I don't want this amount to increase.

He is going to email me a Draft Consent Order on Monday to look at. I am aware that it will be written in favour of the solicitor's client and not me.

I am a bit worried, for the following reasons:
1) I think the Consent Order will just be instructing me to pay £118 + £23XX. And the setting aside of the judgment, of course. I could have achieved this a LOT easier if I had paid up on 07/01/25 when I found out about the CCJ, as I was within the 30-day limit.
2) As the solicitor is now consenting, the court will never get to see my witness statement and my evidence (I would send in my N244 with only the signed Consent Order attached). My witness statement and evidence are great, and I don't think the judge would order me to pay all their costs (or any of their costs) if he/she read it.

I know what you are going to say: Sit tight until Monday and see what the Consent Order actually says! Hee hee.

I guess if we reach a stalemate about the Consent Order, I can always send in my application as if they have not consented (or is that a REALLY STUPID idea?).

Your thoughts please....

[Pezza54]

If you are right about the CO and you accept and sign it, you will be paying over £2.5k for a £100 late payment, penalty, and solicitor's fees. Plus application cost and the time you have spent researching and writing your WS and defence

The purpose of the CO was to pay a lesser court fee to set aside the CCJ and then defend the claim
In the end it is your decision
On the small claims track the losing party is not liable for the other party's legal costs, just about £90 for expenses

[Kathy321]

Thankyou for cutting through all my waffle and getting to the basic facts. It has been a long week. The capital letters in my last post were not shouty capitals, by the way. I was just trying to emphasise certain words.

It is good to know that the absolute worst case scenario is £118 plus £23XX plus £90 for their expenses. Now it is worth it to keep going, get the CCJ set aside and defend the claim, as all I have to lose is an extra £90.

I need to take a couple of days away from all this, and get back to you on Monday when I have the Consent Order from the solicitors. Thankyou again.

[JK2054]

Thankyou for cutting through all my waffle and getting to the basic facts. It has been a long week. The capital letters in my last post were not shouty capitals, by the way. I was just trying to emphasise certain words.

It is good to know that the absolute worst case scenario is £118 plus £23XX plus £90 for their expenses. Now it is worth it to keep going, get the CCJ set aside and defend the claim, as all I have to lose is an extra £90.

I need to take a couple of days away from all this, and get back to you on Monday when I have the Consent Order from the solicitors. Thankyou again.

You need to be very careful. Make sure at no point you have agreed to pay their costs as part of the consent order otherwise you will be liable for them. Set out a clear consent order, which should be something like

IN THE COUNTY COURT AT XXX
BETWEEN XXX (CLAIMANT)
XXXX (DEFENDANT)

BEFORE DISTRICT JUDGE _____ SITTING AT ______

BY CONSENT IT IS ORDERED THAT:

1. Judgement be set aside
2. No order as to costs.

Dated ___ (day) of ____ (month) 2025.

get them to sign a PDF with words like that. upload a draft here before you submit anything.

[Kathy321]

Thankyou PEZZA54 and JK2054.

The solicitors have sent me their draft Consent Order (see below). Points 1 and 2 sound fine to me. Point 3 seems a bit vague, to say the least. It doesn't say
WHO has to pay the costs. I would like it to say 'no order as to costs' or 'judge to determine costs'. As I have no official legal representation, the solicitors and I are going to have to meet a judge at some point so that the judge can check that I know what I have signed, and that I am not a total dimwit. What do you guys think about Point 3?

IN THE CIVIL NATIONAL BUSINESS CENTRE CLAIM NO : XXXX
B E T W E E N : -

XXXX GROUND RENTS LIMITED

Claimant
-and-

XXXX(my name)

Defendant

C O N S E N T O R D E R


UPON the Defendant being abroad when the claim form was served

AND UPON the Defendant not having an opportunity to respond to the claim

BY CONSENT
IT IS ORDERED THAT

1. The Judgment dated 9 December 2024 is set aside.

2. The Defendant shall respond to the claim within fourteen days from the date of service of this Order.

3. Costs in the case.

Dated this day of 2025



………………………………………. …………………………………………..

For XXXX Defendant
Solicitors for the Claimant

[Kathy321]

Is anyone still awake to check the above Consent Order for me? I am keen to email the solicitors back tonight so they get it first thing in the morning. Thanks!

[Pezza54]

The CO is giving you a chance to defend the claim, which is what you want.
I'm not sure what "Costs in the case" means
The claim has been allocated to the small claims track so there shouldn't be any legal costs awarded
I would be surprised if the court accepts costs in the case in the CO

By signing the CO are you agreeing to the solicitor's legal costs preparing the claim, attending the hearing etc, if the claim is successful?

JK's suggestion "No order as to costs" is much preferable but it doesn't seem likely the solicitor will agree to this

[pc52straw]

"Costs in this case" is left hanging in the air, I'd agree. But I'm no expert as to whether you should suggest a correction, and if so how it should be worded.

You might get a judge who throws it out (if not amended) because it's clearly not a complete, actionable instruction. But I wouldn't rely on that.

[atticus]

Costs in the case means that the eventual loser of the case pays the costs of dealing with this to the eventual winner.

See the table in Practice direction 44 para 4.2: https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/pr...costs2#rule4.1

[Kathy321]

Thankyou everyone. Wow, I don't fancy the risk of paying for their solicitor to travel from the midlands up to Liverpool, maybe twice!

I will see if I can get it amended to 'No order as to costs'

[JK2054]

i mean no order as to costs is best, but costs in the case wont make much difference becasue costs are in the case anyway for a small claim by default, and you have small claims cost proection. I'd try get no order as to costs, solicitors sholdn't object

[Pezza54]

Am I understanding PD 44 para 4,2 "Costs in the case correctly"?
The award of costs only covers legal costs of the part of the proceedings to which the order relates

The application is a for a consent order (court fee just over £100) which Kathy intends to pay. A hearing is not necessary for a consent order so costs should be minimum. Won't the court order be in favour of the applicant?

[atticus]

Am I understanding PD 44 para 4,2 "Costs in the case correctly"?
The award of costs only covers legal costs of the part of the proceedings to which the order relates
?

But those costs to be paid by the eventual loser of the case to the eventual winner.