Pre action order relating to injury claim.

[des8]

If they are sensible, in view of your posts, they will be sensible to accept your part 36 offer, or at least negotiate
good luck

[steveeasy]

Hi Des8
Just to update you. the hearing was posponed no costs to us at all.

Recieved medical report.

accident 23/08

he was given a sick note from13/8-03/09 ten days before incident.!

No benifits were claimed.

So he was injured. with crutches and brace. signed off for 3 weeks. but went striaght back to work. would the police have him back. if he was signed of why no benifits.

seams a little odd to me and why would the police let an officer work if he was injured.

Your thoughts appreciated.

Steveeasy

He did however apparantly go straight back to work with crutches and brace. hes a police officer.

[des8]

So his injuries weren't severe, and he was able to return to desk duties in spite of already being signed off work for what?
Was he already injured?

What were the medical report conclusions?

no response to your part 36 offer?

[steveeasy]

So his injuries weren't severe, and he was able to return to desk duties in spite of already being signed off work for what?
Was he already injured?

What were the medical report conclusions?

no response to your part 36 offer?

We requested to find out what benifits were claimed before a part 36 offer is made. O benefits. Apparently Hospital fees will be due but have not been provided. The medical report being quite inaccurate said . he went straight back to work having been signed off for 3 weeks with crutches and brace. he had a bruise on arm. the medical report stated it disappeared in 2 weeks. graze on other arm. healed in 3 weeks. No sign of damage to knee with MRI scan. but uncomfortable. had steriod injection. the medical report was done 6 months after injury. at that time his knee was fine. no sign of anyrthing. he had signs of arthritic changes not related to incident.

So his injuries weren't severe, and he was able to return to desk duties in spite of already being signed off work for what?
Was he already injured?
No its just all the dates are wrong. the incident was on 23/8. signed off on 24/8 went back to work 26/8 he was signed off for 3 weeks.

Steveeasy

[des8]

... and these slight injuries were caused by not looking where he was going and putting his foot down a drain hole which doesn't exist!

Wonder if those solicitors are ambulance chasers

[steveeasy]

... and these slight injuries were caused by not looking where he was going and putting his foot down a drain hole which doesn't exist!

Wonder if those solicitors are ambulance chasers

No drains in or on the carpark.

[steveeasy]

Ok.
so our solicitor made a P36 offer. However the claimants solicitors dont think its a part 36 offer. there seams some confussion over costs. and pre action protocol. Ive no idea what the disagreement is about. our solicitor has said the initial claim should have been put on a portal, the claimants dispute this. ive attached some of the corrispondance.

Any idea what the problem is?

Steveeasy




WITHOUT PREJUDICE SAVE AS TO COSTS

The offer stands.

The costs have been stated in the offer to confirm to you our view of the applicable costs in this claim upon a settlement at this stage.

We believe the costs that would apply are table 6A of CPR 45.

TABLE 6A

Fixed costs in relation to the EL/PL Protocol
Where the value of the claim for damages is not more than £10,000
Stage 1 fixed costs	£300
Stage 2 fixed costs	£600

The Claim should have been started in the Online Claims Portal and or under the pre-action protocol for low value personal injury claims (Employers’ Liability and Public Liability) claims and it is unclear from your letter of claim or correspondence whether the claim is still progressing under that protocol. If it is not we suggest you have unreasonably brought the claim out of that protocol.

The fact that you issued Part 8 proceedings indicates you believed the case to be within the following protocol pre-action protocol for low value personal injury claims (Employers’ Liability and Public Liability) otherwise you would have issued Part 7 proceedings.

CPR:
45.16
(1) This Section applies to claims that have been or should have been started under Part 8 in accordance with Practice Direction 8B (‘the Stage 3 Procedure’).
(2) Where a party has not complied with the relevant Protocol rule 45.24 will apply.
‘The relevant Protocol’ means
(a) the Pre-Action Protocol for Personal Injury Claims in Road Traffic Accidents (“the RTA Protocol”); or
(b) the Pre-action Protocol for Low Value Personal Injury Claims (Employers’ Liability and Public Liability) Claims ('the EL/PL Protocol').
(3) A reference to ‘Claim Notification Form’ or Court Proceedings Pack is a reference to the form used in the relevant Protocol.

45.17 The only costs allowed are –
(a) fixed costs in rule 45.18; and
Failure to comply or electing not to continue with the relevant Protocol – costs consequences

45.24

(2) Subject to paragraph (2A), where a judgment is given in favour of the claimant but –
(iii) except for paragraph (2)(a), in any other way that caused the process in the relevant Protocol to be discontinued; or
(c) the claimant did not comply with the relevant Protocol at all despite the claim falling within the scope of the relevant Protocol,
the court may order the defendant to pay no more than the fixed costs in rule 45.18 together with the disbursements allowed in accordance with rule 45.19.

https://www.lawgazette.co.uk/law/cla...109585.article

You’re entitled to £900 + VAT = £1,080.00 costs.

Please confirm your acceptance to the above and your reply to the offer.

Kind regards




We acknowledge receipt of your offer.

With respect we cannot agree that it is an offer made in accordance with Part 36 as you have incorrectly stated the Defendant’s obligation for costs.

If proceedings are not issued (i.e. the case settles pre-issue), the costs are as follows calculated in accordance with Part 45.29 CPR;


TABLE 6D

Fixed costs where a claim no longer continues under the EL/PL Protocol – public liability claims
A. If Parties reach a settlement prior to the claimant issuing proceedings under Part 7
Agreed damages	At least £1,000, but not more than £5,000	More than £5,000, but not more than £10,000	More than £10,000
Fixed costs	The total of— (a) £950; and (b) 17.5% of the damages	The total of— (a) £1,855; and (b) 10% of damages over £5,000	The total of— (a) £2,370; and (b) 10% of damages over £10,000

Therefore costs payable (if accepted) under Part 36.20 would be £1825 + VAT + disbursement of £558 = total £2,383.00.

Please can you confirm?

[des8]

It is a technical "discussion" between the solicitors about whether or not the claim was started using the correct procedures.
This matters to you because the costs are lower if your solicitor is correct.

The Ministry of Justice has mandated that personal injury claims falling within the scope of the pre-action protocols must be processed using the Claims Portal.
Your solicitor is saying the claimants did not follow these instructions

I'm not going to chose!

[steveeasy]

Hi Des8,
Thanks for this. I was however hoping you would choose!!. I dont understand why there are different amounts. If the Ministry of Justice mandated personal injury claims must be processes using the claims portal, then why did they not. I think they have said it could not been put on the portal because we did not provide insurance details. our solicitor has said this is not an issue. why has it lead to our solicitor believing its a lower amount.

I dont know. seams we are going to be made an offer now. we are to recieve a p36 offer with the higher costs.

Steveeasy

[des8]

Basically the other side are stating that as court proceedings had been initiated, costs are as they state, but your solicitor is saying that as the proceedings were not issued correctly the costs are as he stated.

On the basis of what you have posted I would side with your solicitor, but without sight of all documentation ..................

This is really part of the negotiation process, and they will assuredly be making a counter offer

[steveeasy]

Basically the other side are stating that as court proceedings had been initiated, costs are as they state, but your solicitor is saying that as the proceedings were not issued correctly the costs are as he stated.

On the basis of what you have posted I would side with your solicitor, but without sight of all documentation ..................

This is really part of the negotiation process, and they will assuredly be making a counter offer

Hi Des8
well thanks for coming back to me. Yes we have just had a counter offer. same amount. the higher fees, but to be paid in full within 10 days of accepting it. if not they will sue my partner within 7 days. Well The offer was I believe reasonable given the injuries. their counter offer is the same amount. so they are going to gamble if they sue that they will recieve a higher award. If its the same or lower they would have to pay all our costs. even then they will not have any money and we would make payments in installments. Not a gamble id make.

Steveeasy

[des8]

So follow your solicitor's advice.... or is he sitting on the wall saying it is for you to decide?

[steveeasy]

So follow your solicitor's advice.... or is he sitting on the wall saying it is for you to decide?

He was clearly telling them how much they were entitled too. Now he seams to be sitting on the fence. Perhaps he is doing the right thing. he is doing alright actually. He cant work miracles. clearly there were two levels of fees, I dont understand the difference in these different tables. I told him it is not worth defending matters that cost more in fees and dont alter the eventual outcome. Ie, no drains in the car park but he did injure himself. so little gained from arguing.
the P36 counter offer is in a company name. I am told if we turn the counter offer down they will submit the claim in my partners name. they seam to have decided it would be a better option. I am sure it is.

However they have made a counter offer. in a company name. same amount. surely wont help thier case if they take it to a hearing that they were offered x amount and counter offered the same amount. but the p36 counter offer is there on the table. its a no brainer then. are they that slow. it cant be retracted for 21 days. be silly not to accept it.!! Our offer was in good faith.

[steveeasy]

Ok. the arguing over costs on friday cost us £720 and emptied our account. So our offer is rejected not because the offer amount but they want it in one lump sum.I thought £400 per month was reasonable. the counter offer is the higher costs and the same amount for damages. but in one lump sum.

Cant pay that. so if they start a claim towards us and we accept liability and they are awarded damages, wont that be subject to a payment arrangement if the defendant cant settle it. ? or do they turn up and take your TV straight away.?. cant understand the other side as Id think there is a real risk they might get nothing.

Steveeasy

[steveeasy]

So now im going on the defensive. police officer fell down a drain in a car park that was not there. im sure he fell somewhere. He goes to Hospital, gets crutches and a brace and is signed off for 3 weeks as he is injured. sounds bad. But he then goes to work the next day on light duties for a day. The police pay full pay for sick pay for the first six months. He was treated by first aiders and they recorded it as superficial. I dont know cos I was not there and im not a medical expert. But he went to work having been signed off. Ive never been signed off, who is ?. I cant walk nowadays but im not signed off. would the police have some one in to work if they were injured?.

Makes me think.

Steveeasy