Pre action order relating to injury claim.

[steveeasy]

Approximately 2 years ago we recieved an email from a firm of solicitors stating thier client had injured themselves at our business a further 2 years prior and requested we provided our insurance details. We refused this as we did not believe the claim was valid. We asked 2 further times for details of the claim. evidence of injury and any further details. we were told we were too late to request this information. We also have a record of all medical issues on site held by third party paramedics. no record of the injury at all is held.
They then made a claim for a pre action order for us to disclose any details of corrispondance between the claimant and ourselves and other evidence such as maintanance schedules. 7 days to provide this. well after a very long time the court sent to us by standard mail details of hearing of application by telephone in January 2022. but we do not have any access to this. my point we dont have all the info and what we do have they dont want. they wont provide any details of claim but want to make onje through the court. Is this how it goes. I understand what they are trying to do but can we defend it by providing info before they ask.the court.

Any simple advice appreciated.
steveeasy

[islandgirl]

Why are your business insurers not handling this issue? Valid or not the first thing you should do in a case like this is pass it over to the insurer.

[des8]

Was the claimant an employee or member of the public?

[steveeasy]

Why are your business insurers not handling this issue? Valid or not the first thing you should do in a case like this is pass it over to the insurer.

To be specific. on the day in question a woman came in to the room used for commentary and said my husbands just fallen in a hole. My wife said oh dear if you go over to the first aiders on site they will treat you and take all your details.we allways have first aiders on site. they deal with all paperwork and keep records. the man walked in to the cafe and got a burger. he wandered around watching the event and never provided any details or spoke to the parammedics on site.

2 years later we got an email. By this time our insurance had lapsed and our we had changed insurers and the previous ins not interested. They said any claim needed to be made within 3 months. 2 years and not interested,

So we have continued to ask for details of the claim. we have been told we are too late to request this. I think its obvious what the solicitors are doing.
Steveeasy

[steveeasy]

Was the claimant an employee or member of the public?

member of the public

.

[islandgirl]

I would double check the length of time the insurers are liable for (not just beliee what they told me!)

[des8]

How long ago was this alleged injury?
from your post it seems to have been over 4 years.
There is a time limit of three years from the date of injury in which a court claim can be initiated (limitation act 1980 sec11)

Also that firm of solicitors seem not to have acted in accordance with preaction protocols ( https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/pr...l/prot_pic#1.1)
e.g. their first letter should have been sent you in duplicate for you to send a copy to your insurers.

If the above understandings are correct I would be inclined to tell that firm of solicitors to refer to the answer given in Arkell v Pressdram

Further that three month time limit for making a claim against a liability insurer sounds odd to say the least.
I wonder if the person you dealt with is getting confused with a three month time limit the insurers have to respond to a letter complying with the preaction protocol.
So the policy wording can be checked could you post a link to it online (or name the insurer and type of policy)

[steveeasy]

Hi Des8
Yes its a long time ago. Ive posted on here before about it. last year I asked them for details of the claim. the application witness statement states they have yet to recieve a response from the defendant. we have a list of corrispondance with them where they refuse to provide any information. The point here is the telephone hearing now arranged in january 2022 refers to parties but only the claimant and judge. so how do we tell the judge its a missleading statement.

[des8]

Just flicked back and find that the alleged incident took place August 2019, so still within the 3 year limitation period.

To be clear you have a court date for a hearing about an application for preaction disclosure of documents.
Could you post up the full wording please?

Referring back to your public liability insurance policies:
Are/were your policies on a claims made or claims occurring basis?
Can you supply the details of your previous policy so we can check it?

[steveeasy]

Hi Des8,
only just seen this. yes I will scan it tomorrow and post it on here. Yes you are correct it was august 2019. seamed much earlier. when I post it there will be there witness statement where they say they have never had a response from us. we have tried to get details of claim from them and they have stated in writing we were too late in reuesting any information. It should be a hearing of application. that being a pre action order pursuant to section 35 defendant to disclose information. that being management and maintanance details of premises.locus records .copies of corrispondance between defendant and claimant.
There is no corrispondance between parties. the claimant came to us, told us hed tripped. we told him to go to first aiders who would look after him and take his details. He did not bother and had his dinner and watched the event quite happy it seamed. so we have no record nor does the first aiders who attend every event for us.
Thank you
steveeasy

[steveeasy]

Hi Des8 01011102.PDF
I have scanned the documents we discussed.
Overview. we recieve letter of claim asking to pass on to insurers. we respond stating we are unable to pass on to insurers and request evidence they wrote to us, we also ask for further details of claim. they respond we are not entitled to further details of the claim. We recieve claim form cpr part 8 application which states clearly we have never responded at all in the scanned witness statement. we then recieve notice of hearing where it seams no provision is made for us to participate in the telephone conferance(included in the attached scan.

In the meantime we again write to the solicitors stating we have on record the aleged incident help by our first aiders and request again details of the claim in order we try and settle. the response yeterday states we have yet to respond to them. the expect costs to be awarded at end of month. we can admit liability but still no mention of thier claim.

Its all in the scan. clearly the witness statement is missleading. the application is i believe a pre action disclosure and costs only awarded if we dont carry out the directions within the timescales. but the hearing notice states its for a succinct case sumery with all other parties. but we re not included it states.

Why cant they state what they want. I thought parties had to do pre action to avoid wasting court time, not use it as a tool to extract more money. am I confused or is it being abused here. all they need to do is provide evidence of injury and loss to us and we can either settle or let them proceed to a claim.

Thanks in advance.
steveeasy

[des8]

At this stage you are not admitting liability and the claimant is seeking preaction disclosure of documentation that might have a bearing on his potential claim.
It isn't even certain that a claim will materialise as he needs to prove you were negligent in respect to that drain cover.
This is normal practice in personal injury cases

I really think you should seek professional advice.
Personal injury cases are allocated to the fast track, where costs become a factor.

[steveeasy]

Hi Des8
Thank you for your response and advice. We have been responding to the claimant solicitors since May 2020. In Jan 2021 I wrote to him requesting he provide at least some details of his clients injuries. on the 28 january I wrote to the solicitor again asking for something as we had no record of any incident. I also confirmed we would and could not pass the matter on to our insurers.
I recieved within 10 mins a rude response stating he would start legal proceedings. The important bit. He submits the pre application disclosure process and signs a witness statement that almost word for word say. we issued letter of claim and sent emails. as yet we have not recieved a response from the defendant.

If this witness statement is missleading or a lie (which it must be as i have letters and copies of corrispondance to him) he must be in contempt of court. He has lied in the witness statement. He has never ever requested any disclosure on any information. this Pre application disclosure is a substantial list of anything. It is a fishing excercise. whilst as yet we have no indication of any injuries or anything from them.

As you know I wrote to them this week as we have a record now of treatment given to 1 individual on the said day. I sent this to then to try and move forward and he did not even acknowledge the matter.

Steveeasy

[des8]

Well i suppose you could write to the court and enclose a witness statement shewing how you have co operated with the said firm.
Be careful not to accuse him of lying!

Back in November you posted about a request for preaction disclosure, but I suppose you didn't comply
CPR 31 16 (3) (d) states:
" disclosure [ of documents or classes of documents of which the applicant seeks disclosure;] before proceedings have started is desirable in order to
(i) dispose fairly of the anticipated proceedings;
(ii) assist the dispute to be resolved without proceedings; or
(iii) save costs."

[steveeasy]

Hi Des8,
Back in November you posted about a request for preaction disclosure, but I suppose you didn't comply
CPR 31 16 (3) (d) states.
I was posting in November about the same pre application disclosure. Not sure I understand why you say But I suppose you did not comply.?

The witness statement contains very misleading statement. We have yet to receive a response from them. it is misleading. false. completely untrue and misleads the court. Is it bad practice to say the witness has lied. ?.or should I say mislead.

I intend to oppose the application on the grounds of the witness statement being missleading. failing to provide any or sufficient detail relating to the claim . and not requesting any disclosure of material at all. it is a fishing exercise.