What now?

[coxdavid1990]

So having received a CCJ (served at the wrong address) previously, having received advice from you guys on the forum, I had sent across an Application to Set Aside directly to CEL with a Consent Order attached, they have responded with the below - does this mean they're agreeing? What else do I need to do?

Dear Sir,

Please be advised that we would only agree with the terms as per the Draft Consent Order sent by yourself, as soon as we will receive a payment of £197 (original Parking Charge Notice and our fixed costs), as the violation took place, and a POPLA Decision has been issued in our favour.

If you wish to make a payment you can give us a call on 0870 919 5577, or alternatively, you can go to our website on www.ce-service.co.uk.

Please note that as soon as a copy of your Hearing of the Application will be received, and no payment will be made, we will be left with no alternative but to request for the claim to be restored as a Defended Claim and ask for the rejection of the Application made for CCJ to be removed.


Yours faithfully,

Legal Team
For and on behalf of
Civil Enforcement Limited

[Amethyst]

What was your draft consent order? Have you submitted your application to the court ( without the consent order, as it wasn't agreed )?

If the judgment was obtained at an incorrect address you could simply apply to set it aside with a view to defending the case ( or going on to settle depending on the case )

Please note that as soon as a copy of your Hearing of the Application will be received, and no payment will be made, we will be left with no alternative but to request for the claim to be restored as a Defended Claim and ask for the rejection of the Application made for CCJ to be removed.

This makes no sense but presumably it means if you decide not to make the payment without any consent order in place and proceed with an application to the court to set aside the judgment without consent, they will defend the application ? possibly that's what they mean... they can't ask for the claim to be restored as a Defended claim AND ask for the rejection of the Application - because if the Application is rejected then the CCJ remains and the case isn't defended ..... if the set aside is accepted and ordered THEN the claim becomes restored as a Defended claim .... so they make no sense. IMO anyway.

[coxdavid1990]

So all I sent to date was a letter to CEL explaining what I've requested from them and my 'defense' so to speak and the below: I wasn't aware I needed to send anything to the court at this time and was only advised to contact CEL first with the document below and the aforementioned letter?

IN THE XXXX COUNTY COURT	CLAIM NO: XXX
B E T W E E N

	CIVIL ENFORCEMENT LIMITED (CEL)
		Claimant
	-and-
	XXXX
		Defendant

	CONSENT ORDER

UPON the application of the Defendant to set aside a default judgment dated 18 October 2018

AND UPON reading the evidence recorded in the Court file as having been read.

BY CONSENT IT IS ORDERED THAT:-

1. The default judgment entered on 18 October 2018 be set aside.

2. The Claim is dismissed.

3. There be no order as to costs.


Dated this 22nd day of February 2019

Signed ………………….………………….		Signed ………………….………………….
Civil Enforcement Limited Horton House Liverpool L2 3PF		xxxx
For and on behalf of the Claimant		The Defendant

[R0b]

coxdavid1990 it might be helpful to keep your issue in the same thread, otherwise it becomes confusing - Original thread

Clearly whoever is in the legal team doesn't understand the legal process. Did your covering email say that if not agreed then you will seek additional costs relating to the application like I suggested? It would be sensible to post your email too so we can see the complete chain.

I would be extremely weary of paying the amount before a set aside, it is akin to an admission of debt and the CCJ could stay on your record. If CEL want to dig their heels in then that's up to them. I would say that could be deemed as unreasonable refusal of agreeing to set aside the CCJ which they are in effect forcing you to make the application rather than set it aside and then contest the claim.

If I were in your position, I would just repeat what I said previously and that if they don't agree by the deadline date, you will issue an application to set aside together with costs. Judging from a previous thread, it might be the case that they make an offer to settle prior to the set aside hearing. This is where your previous chain of correspondence comes into play because you can point out their refusal to co-operate unless payment is made up front.

[coxdavid1990]

Apologies R0B, I couldn't find the orignal post so posted again. I did as stated, so I sent the Consent piece above along with the below both via email and Recorded Royal Mail. Please do let me know how you think I should proceed from here?

Dear Sir or Madam,
Re: Application to set aside judgment
Civil Enforcement Limited v XXXX

I am writing with reference to the above matter (also by email to: appeals@ce-service.co.uk)
It has come to my attention following a review of my credit report on Experian Credit Expert, that Civil Enforcement Limited (“CEL”) have obtained a County Court Judgment dated 18 October 2018. The judgment appears to relate to an outstanding balance in respect of a parking charge notice (“PCN”) however the particulars of claim are very unclear.
I attempted to resolve the PCN at the time of issue, via telephone on several occasions and on email, please see the evidence attached, to which I received no response at the time. I have been informed in a recent telephone call with CEL that this correspondence had been received and was on file but I received no reply from CEL.
Following a telephone call to the court, I am now aware that CEL have issued a claim at my previous address, namely, XXXX and not my current place of residence, therefore I received no correspondence from them regarding payment of the notice nor was I given the chance to defend the claim in court.
During my call with CEL when you notified me that my original email had been received (but not responded to) I was advised that paragraph 3 of the attached letter dated 20 November 2016 (attached) states that if an appeal to POPLA is rejected, then you lose the right to pay at the lower rare. However, in paragraph 5 of the letter it states ‘In view of your correspondence, even if you have received a reminder demanding payment at a higher rate, we have extended the time allowance for you to pay at the original reduced charge by a further 14 days’. I argue that this throws reasonable doubt as to the amount of which was owed and to your process and therefore caused unnecessary confusion. Having made several attempts to contact CEL, and resolve this, I am afraid I gave up trying to make contact.

I firmly believe that I did attempt to resolve this matter on several occasions, however it seems any further correspondence was sent to the wrong address, leaving me unable to respond to this claim. It is therefore my intention to submit an application to the court on the grounds that service of the claim form was invalid and that I have a reasonable prospect of successfully defending the claim.
Accordingly, please provide the following documents:

• the claim form;
• detailed particulars of claim;
• the PCN ticket and all other relevant documents in relation to the PCN
• all correspondence from CEL addressed to me in respect of the PCN.

You should be aware that any application to set aside a default judgment must be made promptly and I require the above-named documents from you within the next 7 days from the date of this letter.
In order to minimise the costs to both parties, I have enclosed a Consent Order for your perusal. If you consent to setting aside the default judgment, please sign and return the Consent Order by 4pm on 1 March 2019. In return, I am prepared to pay for the cost of the application with no order as to costs. Should you consent, I have also attached a draft consent order for your completion.
If I do not hear back from you by the above-mentioned date, I will have no other choice but to issue an application to set aside the default judgment without further notice to CEL. In this case, I will seek full costs of the application along with all other incidental costs. I estimate these costs to be £255 for the application fee as well as 10 hours’ preparation in respect of the application at a rate of £19 per hour.
I look forward to hearing from you by 4pm on 1 March 2019.
Yours faithfully,


XXXX

[R0b]

So a very quick example of how you might respond to CEL which should hopefully make them reconsider their position but you can't force a leopard to change their spots.

I am assuming you are still wanting to press ahead with the set aside if they don't reply by 1st March?

------------------------------------

Dear Sir or Madam,

I am a little confused by your email response on [DATE] and I would welcome further clarifty from yourselves.

In that email you say that you require payment of the alleged PCN in the sum of £197 before you will consent to the set aside of the default judgment. Any payment of a judgment debt is considered to be an admission of liability and would render useless any application to set aside the default judgment. Therefore it makes no sense to pay you the sum of money prior to any set aside application.

Equally confusing, is your suggestion that if I submit an application to set aside the default judgment, you will request for the claim to be restored and seek a refusal to set aside the default judgment. If you are seeking to restore the claim then surely you are agreeing to set aside the default judgment? It is not actually possible to dismiss the set aside application and have the claim restored as a defended claim; it is one or the other though I would invite you to comment further on this point for clarity.

I should point out that I am offering to pay the costs of the application and the Consent Order has been drafted to reflect that position. Therefore, if, as your email indicates, you are prepared to restore the claim then I can see no reason why you should refuse to agree to the Consent Order.

Nevertheless, I would ask you to reconsider your position but if your view remains the same and the Consent Order is not received by 4pm on 1 March 2019, I shall be issuing an application to set aside the default judgment. If the default judgment is set aside, I will be seeking costs of the application (£255) plus costs of preparation (£190 based on 10 hours at the litigant in person rate of £19 per hour) and any other incidental costs such as travel, parking and attendance.

Finally, I can see that you have also ignored my request to provide the documentation listed in my previous email though there is no explanantion from yourselves as to why you haven't supplied this. I would ask that you send this to me as soon as possible before 1 March otherwise I will be asking the court to make an unless order to disclosure the said documentation otherwise the claim will be struck out.

Yours faithfully

[Your Name]

[coxdavid1990]

So a very quick example of how you might respond to CEL which should hopefully make them reconsider their position but you can't force a leopard to change their spots.

I am assuming you are still wanting to press ahead with the set aside if they don't reply by 1st March?

------------------------------------

Dear Sir or Madam,

I am a little confused by your email response on [DATE] and I would welcome further clarifty from yourselves.

In that email you say that you require payment of the alleged PCN in the sum of £197 before you will consent to the set aside of the default judgment. Any payment of a judgment debt is considered to be an admission of liability and would render useless any application to set aside the default judgment. Therefore it makes no sense to pay you the sum of money prior to any set aside application.

Equally confusing, is your suggestion that if I submit an application to set aside the default judgment, you will request for the claim to be restored and seek a refusal to set aside the default judgment. If you are seeking to restore the claim then surely you are agreeing to set aside the default judgment? It is not actually possible to dismiss the set aside application and have the claim restored as a defended claim; it is one or the other though I would invite you to comment further on this point for clarity.

I should point out that I am offering to pay the costs of the application and the Consent Order has been drafted to reflect that position. Therefore, if, as your email indicates, you are prepared to restore the claim then I can see no reason why you should refuse to agree to the Consent Order.

Nevertheless, I would ask you to reconsider your position but if your view remains the same and the Consent Order is not received by 4pm on 1 March 2019, I shall be issuing an application to set aside the default judgment. If the default judgment is set aside, I will be seeking costs of the application (£255) plus costs of preparation (£190 based on 10 hours at the litigant in person rate of £19 per hour) and any other incidental costs such as travel, parking and attendance.

Finally, I can see that you have also ignored my request to provide the documentation listed in my previous email though there is no explanantion from yourselves as to why you haven't supplied this. I would ask that you send this to me as soon as possible before 1 March otherwise I will be asking the court to make an unless order to disclosure the said documentation otherwise the claim will be struck out.

Yours faithfully

[Your Name]

Perfect, thanks R0B. Will get this emailed across today and keep you updated with their response.

[coxdavid1990]

UPDATE: this is the reponse just received having sent the above email. What should I do from here please?

Dear Sir,

The £197 would be in full and final satisfaction of the CCJ. We can after agree for this to be removed from your records with no order for costs, and claim dismissed (not restored).

If you have any questions, as advised previously, please give us a call on 0870 919 55 77.


Yours faithfully,

Legal Team
For and on behalf of
Civil Enforcement Limited

[R0b]

Still a backwards step and failure to address the points. If you pay the £197 before the set aside you run the risk of not getting it set aside as there isn't a guarantee. Seems to me their legal team are not sure on the actual process of set aside applications and how they work in practice.

As I read that email, I take it to mean that they are refusing to agree a consent order unless you agree to pay the £197 first. By all means they are entitled to take that position and you can't make them yield so I don't think you really need to wait until 1 March because they have made their position quite clear.

In that case, there is no harm in responding back to them and explaining to them that you take their previous email as a refusal to consent to setting aside the default judgment and so you will now proceed to issuing an application together with costs previously referred to. Also, because they have failed to comply with your reasonable request for information surrounding the alleged contravention, you will be asking the court to make an unless order for disclosure of that information.

Something short and sweet and then leave it there. Next stop, get your documents together and submit your application (have we seen your application?)

[coxdavid1990]

Still a backwards step and failure to address the points. If you pay the £197 before the set aside you run the risk of not getting it set aside as there isn't a guarantee. Seems to me their legal team are not sure on the actual process of set aside applications and how they work in practice.

As I read that email, I take it to mean that they are refusing to agree a consent order unless you agree to pay the £197 first. By all means they are entitled to take that position and you can't make them yield so I don't think you really need to wait until 1 March because they have made their position quite clear.

In that case, there is no harm in responding back to them and explaining to them that you take their previous email as a refusal to consent to setting aside the default judgment and so you will now proceed to issuing an application together with costs previously referred to. Also, because they have failed to comply with your reasonable request for information surrounding the alleged contravention, you will be asking the court to make an unless order for disclosure of that information.

Something short and sweet and then leave it there. Next stop, get your documents together and submit your application (have we seen your application?)

Interesting - see my partner sees them as agreeing to remove the CCJ due to the fact that they've put this in writing. Does this mean anything at all? Having it in writing?

Ideally - as anyone would I don't really want to have to go through the whole court application (my partner is pregnant and due to drop end of April) so not an ideal time at all - but based on what you've said this is our only route now?

What do I actually need to get them to do in order to remove the CCJ and 'drop the claim'? Can I not simply ask them to do that to save it going to court?

[charitynjw]

R0b

Would it be an idea to enclose or incorporate a SAR with the next email to CEL 'with view to further litigation, should CEL not see reason'?

[R0b]

If they agreed to remove the CCJ they would have signed the Consent Order, have they done that? To me, they are agreeing to set aside the CCJ but only after you pay the £197. You should be cautious because there is absolutely no obligation for CEL to consent to the set aside once payment is made. You are effectively relying on their good faith.

Like I said, there is a risk by paying for it upfront then asking to set aside because that's not how set aside applications work. You should set aside if you disagree with the judgment otherwise you could be deemed as accepting the judgment and therefore no set aside is necessary.

If you are really not set on going to court then there is an alternative by agreeing to pay the £197 embodied in the terms of the Consent Order as opposed to paying upfront. I set put some example wording in another CEL related thread but different circumstances see post #28 (click here).

If you go down this route I would cover your back in a cover email saying in the interests of getting this resolved you are prepared agree to pay the sum as set out in the Consent Order on the basis that liability is not admitted (though technically it is) It's a bit of a climb down from your previous correspondence so CEL might see that as an opportunity and hold their ground for payment in full before setting aside.

So if they refuse again, you have no choice but to either pay first or issue a claim and see if CEL come back to the table.

I dont really have anything to add because this is where you need to decide what to do.

charitynjw a SAR could be sent but doebu't prevent the current problem as it's a separate issue, plus they have to supply the data within one month, time which you dont have on a set aside application.

[coxdavid1990]

If they agreed to remove the CCJ they would have signed the Consent Order, have they done that? To me, they are agreeing to set aside the CCJ but only after you pay the £197. You should be cautious because there is absolutely no obligation for CEL to consent to the set aside once payment is made. You are effectively relying on their good faith.

Like I said, there is a risk by paying for it upfront then asking to set aside because that's not how set aside applications work. You should set aside if you disagree with the judgment otherwise you could be deemed as accepting the judgment and therefore no set aside is necessary.

If you are really not set on going to court then there is an alternative by agreeing to pay the £197 embodied in the terms of the Consent Order as opposed to paying upfront. I set put some example wording in another CEL related thread but different circumstances see post #28 (click here).

If you go down this route I would cover your back in a cover email saying in the interests of getting this resolved you are prepared agree to pay the sum as set out in the Consent Order on the basis that liability is not admitted (though technically it is) It's a bit of a climb down from your previous correspondence so CEL might see that as an opportunity and hold their ground for payment in full before setting aside.

So if they refuse again, you have no choice but to either pay first or issue a claim and see if CEL come back to the table.

I dont really have anything to add because this is where you need to decide what to do.

charitynjw a SAR could be sent but doebu't prevent the current problem as it's a separate issue, plus they have to supply the data within one month, time which you dont have on a set aside application.

Based on this response R0B, would it make logical sense for me to ask them to sign the consent order and then I will pay once this is received? Whether they'll agree is another story, but worth an ask.

Is that all I need from them to get the CCJ removed? What would be the next steps if they were to sign this?

[R0b]

But you have asked them to sign the Consent Order by sending that original email and attaching it. Their response is that they won't sign until you pay them the amount they are seeking. If CEL agreed to setting aside the CCJ, they would have signed the Consent Order, and by not signing and returning it to you, CEL are by implication, not giving their consent.

By all means if you want to ask them again then that is up to you but unless they have somehow had a change of heart within the last 24 hours, they are unlikely to agree.

I don't think you need to worry about the next steps just yet, you need to determine whether you want to bring legal proceedings come 1st March, or keep pressing for CEL to sign the Consent Order. There's no point in explaining until one of those events occur.

[coxdavid1990]

But you have asked them to sign the Consent Order by sending that original email and attaching it. Their response is that they won't sign until you pay them the amount they are seeking. If CEL agreed to setting aside the CCJ, they would have signed the Consent Order, and by not signing and returning it to you, CEL are by implication, not giving their consent.

By all means if you want to ask them again then that is up to you but unless they have somehow had a change of heart within the last 24 hours, they are unlikely to agree.

I don't think you need to worry about the next steps just yet, you need to determine whether you want to bring legal proceedings come 1st March, or keep pressing for CEL to sign the Consent Order. There's no point in explaining until one of those events occur.

Would you suggest amending the Consent Order to reflect that we will pay the £197 fee upon signature? Or just worth asking them one last time to agree to sign the current Consent Order and we will pay the fee following.