Lowell/O2 court claim CPR31.4 response received

[jaguarsuk]

Morning slainte caragh Sorry for the delay in replying and thanks for your info, I will get a cca request sent this morning, Do you think i should put to them that i have received my sar and that after seeking advice i believe the original contract or handset is covered by cca.

I know 100% that it was my ex wife that took out the contract as it was a pink phone and she also had me off for nearly 10k whilst i was looking after my terminally ill mother and she was meant to be controlling all my finances etc, If i reported her to action fraud or the local police would this also put a stop to them chasing me for it, Not really bothered about repercussions from her as i have custody of our 9 year old son so she couldn't use him as a weapon and stop me seeing him it's just that i'd rather not as i know 100% if he found out i got his mam arrested(if it came to that) he'd be pretty upset.

Cheers T

I would just send the standard template CCA letter from here.

As the claim has been filed it may not necessarily stop things, you may still have to prove this was part of the fraud she committed against you in this particular instance.

If you report her to action fraud and she's arrested I'd say with almost certainty she'll know it's you who has made the report, so will tell your son as much. He's not a little child, so perhaps explaining everything to him before you take such action would be a good idea.

[tomtom1]

Much appreciated jaguarsuk i'll try an get these to back down before i take any action that can't be undone. Should i not add i have received an sar then or should i just send the standard cca.

Much Appreciated T

[jaguarsuk]

Much appreciated jaguarsuk i'll try an get these to back down before i take any action that can't be undone. Should i not add i have received an sar then or should i just send the standard cca.

Much Appreciated T

You could, it doesn't matter either way.

What I would add is that you believe a portion of your agreement with them was to finance a handset via a CCA. They should respond with whether or not they have the CCA and hopefully confirm whether a portion of the agreement was to finance a handset.

Once you have a response we can look at what to do next.

[tomtom1]

Much Appreciated i'll get that printed off in the next hour recorded delivery.

Cheers T

[Diana M]

I will get a cca request sent this morning, Do you think i should put to them that i have received my sar and that after seeking advice i believe the original contract or handset is covered by cca.

I know 100% that it was my ex wife that took out the contract as it was a pink phone and she also had me off for nearly 10k whilst i was looking after my terminally ill mother and she was meant to be controlling all my finances etc, If i reported her to action fraud or the local police would this also put a stop to them chasing me for it

If you report this issue to the police they would need evidence of what took place nearly ten years ago (you say the account was opened 11th August 2008 but possibly upgrade in 2010). When did you first discover the account had been opened? You recall seeing the pink handset while you were married so did you know she had a mobile phone account but presumed it was taken out in her own name?

How was the account paid between 2008 and 2012/13 when you say it was defaulted? Was it by Direct Debit from your bank account or her bank or a joint bank account? If so (your/joint account) and the O2 account had been opened fraudulently, then the question might be asked as to why didn't you take action at that time to close the account etc? Perhaps you did or perhaps you didn't know. The SAR needs t be analysed in detail.

You also need to check when O2 introduced the split tariff where handsets were provided with a CCA regulated agreement since it may not have been the case in 2008 (I'm fairly certain it wasn't).

(My apologies if these issues have already been tackled on your long thread which I've not read in its entirety.)

Di

[slainte caragh]

it may be best to ask someone like jaguarsuk with regards to what to disclose to the DCA.

With regards to Action Fraud, my inital (ex customer service agent) response is, if you knew she had the phone and agreed it at the time, no fraud occured.

I know that the internal fraud offices with see it this way, if she physically showed you the phone and said "This is what I have" then you agreed it. If you had at that time called in and said "I had no knowledge of this" something could be done. Letting her use the phone and keep it means you agreed.

Not the answer you want I know

By all means try them, but I doubt there is much they can do.

[jaguarsuk]

it may be best to ask someone like jaguarsuk with regards to what to disclose to the DCA.

With regards to Action Fraud, my inital (ex customer service agent) response is, if you knew she had the phone and agreed it at the time, no fraud occured.

I know that the internal fraud offices with see it this way, if she physically showed you the phone and said "This is what I have" then you agreed it. If you had at that time called in and said "I had no knowledge of this" something could be done. Letting her use the phone and keep it means you agreed.

Not the answer you want I know

By all means try them, but I doubt there is much they can do.

Their internal officials might say that, but the legal position is very different. Having sight of something doesn't necessarily mean that you agreed to it being purchased.

Fraud is defined as a deliberate deception to obtain unfair or unlawful gain, so showing the phone to the victim and saying look what I bought is deceiving the network operator as they have unlawfully used another persons name to obtain it and the victim as he believes the perpetrator has bought it themselves when in fact they have unlawfully registered it against him.

In this instance it's theft by false pretence - "intentional deception of a victim by false representation or pretence with the intent of persuading the victim to part with property and with the victim parting with property in reliance on the representation or pretence and with the perpetrator intending to keep the property from the victim."

[tomtom1]

Hi,

I recall her saying she had a new contract phone and just assumed it was in her name, nearly all payments were paid online using a joint account card, I had a pretty decent good job at the time and trusted her lol,

The o2 bills stopped being payed bang on around the time i asked her to leave after having a visit off npower saying i owed them just under £4000 and thats when she admitted that she had been taking the money for npower off me and going shopping with her mum.

This is the same wife i forgave just after my mother died as she didnt pay the council tax for around 2 years and let bailiffs in whilst i was at my sisters looking after my mother, We got left quite a tidy inheritance me my brother & sister as my mother was an antique dealer, My sister had to give me my inheritance early only to hand it all straight over to bailiffs as they had already took posession of everything in the house.

The first time i have heard of this o2 contract in my name was december 2017 with the preaction letter from owell of which i replied to,

I did receive a letter off lowell very early last year asking for me to contact them but didnt say what for just asking to contact them with a number etc, I just binned that as i had no reason whatsoever to think it would be for me as up until last year when i took out a sim only deal with 3 for my business i have never had credit apart from a car i bought in early 2007 on hp and payed that off fully that's it.

Cheers T

[warwick65]

I do appreciate the difficult position you are in but I would urged caution before 'shopping' your ex wife - the mother of your son to the police.
My first consideration would be your son, from my experience it is very true when they say mothers and sons , fathers and daughters. Certainly the case in my family. 9 may be a very difficult age, no longer little and now more aware of what is going on but still not mature - children seem to make a leap in development when they go to secondary school.

Secondly- As said by Di - if the money came out of a joint or even your account for some considerable time, a judge may just see this as another salvo in an acrimonious divorce

If you do decide you have to follow the fraud route I would be prepared for the fall out and to be honest, trying to work out what the charge, if any would be is very difficult

[Diana M]

I recall her saying she had a new contract phone and just assumed it was in her name, nearly all payments were paid online using a joint account card

Whenever I've opened a new mobile phone contract (over the phone or online) I have been sent the SIM card in the post which has to be activated by calling the service provider before it goes 'live'. If the account wasn't in her name she would have some difficulty doing this.

What does it say in the SAR about that?

Was O2 sloppy with security clearance at any point?

Di

[jaguarsuk]

Whenever I've opened a new mobile phone contract (over the phone or online) I have been sent the SIM card in the post which has to be activated by calling the service provider before it goes 'live'. If the account wasn't in her name she would have some difficulty doing this.

What does it say in the SAR about that?

Was O2 sloppy with security clearance at any point?

Di

O2 do not currently require activation of SIMs, they come "ready to use straightaway." More here: https://www.o2.co.uk/help/phones-sim...ating-your-sim

The question will be when that practice began and the OP could probably find out by phoning them or slainte caragh might be able to use a contact in the industry to tell us?

[Diana M]

O2 do not currently require activation of SIMs, they come "ready to use straightaway." More here: https://www.o2.co.uk/help/phones-sim...ating-your-sim

The OP's account was opened in 2008 when O2 did send out SIM cards in the post requiring activation. (I was an O2 customer in 2008.)

Their current practice is not relevant to this situation.

Di

[jaguarsuk]

The OP's account was opened in 2008 when O2 did send out SIM cards in the post requiring activation. (I was an O2 customer in 2008.)

Their current practice is not relevant to this situation.

Di

Hence the additional comment you chose to ignore of:

The question will be when that practice began and the OP could probably find out by phoning them or slainte_caragh might be able to use a contact in the industry to tell us?

[tomtom1]

Morning all, I will be getting the cca off this morning as i have been hectic this week trying to catch up with work i set aside during the school holidays.

I have also contacted the sar team regarding sim activation in 2008 as they seem to respond fairly quickly,

But really appreciate all your replies and will keep you informed.

Cheers T

[tomtom1]

I do appreciate the difficult position you are in but I would urged caution before 'shopping' your ex wife - the mother of your son to the police.
My first consideration would be your son, from my experience it is very true when they say mothers and sons , fathers and daughters. Certainly the case in my family. 9 may be a very difficult age, no longer little and now more aware of what is going on but still not mature - children seem to make a leap in development when they go to secondary school.

Secondly- As said by Di - if the money came out of a joint or even your account for some considerable time, a judge may just see this as another salvo in an acrimonious divorce

If you do decide you have to follow the fraud route I would be prepared for the fall out and to be honest, trying to work out what the charge, if any would be is very difficult

I'd have to agree regarding shopping my ex at the minute as i do not want to rock the boat as this year was the year i was applying for a decree absolute or starting the process for divorce and at the moment she lives in a one bed flat with her boyfriend and she has moved loads of times probably due to debt.Whereas me and my gf live in a big new house on green belt my girlfriend has a good job and i have a my own business both have good cars etc so in the laws eyes she could contest the divorce and try and claim half which is really unfair in my eyes,

I would have to disagree though regarding mothers for sons and fathers for daughters as my eldest son from another relationship come to live with me and my girlfriend 2 years ago as he wasn't doing well at school and where he was living and since moving in with us his attendance has jumped from less than 50% to over 95% and there have been times me and his mam have fell out and she said she wants him back and he said he's not going,

I honestly think with parenting it's all down to stability & routine etc as some fathers are selfish and put themselves first aswell as some mothers(like my youngests).

I have exactly the same problem as most women moan about regarding fathers being late or not having the kids etc not so much my eldest but my youngest his mother being late all the time him stood at the window waiting etc. I have never contacted csa, She went on holiday yesterday again with her boyfriend for the 4th time in 2 years and has NEVER took her son on holiday. Last year i worked 6/7 days a week and went out twice so me and my 2 boys could go florida and my girlfriend understood it was a bonding thing and that she would take them somewhere on her own too this year.

I do appreciate your knowledge adn am in no way trying to get into an argument or be contradictive