DISCONTINUED ** Claim under torts to recover compensation for loss

[dave top]

Hi Everybody, it's not ideal for one reason or another it rambled on and got to the stage where a defense for a claim under torts to recover compensation for loss and consequential damages is needed by Monday, this is a bit of a long shot at short notice i know but it must be better to submit something and lose than let them win by default, any help would be appreciated

[dave top]

N24 from court

[MIKE770]

in respect of what company, more details please

[dave top]

in respect of what company, more details please

Hi mike, this was the 1st threat followed by another 4 followed by solicitors letter then by court claim.

crs00012.pdf

[Amethyst]

CRS ? blimey unusual for them to go to court.

What happened when you received the claim ? Did you acknowledge it or submit a defence at all ? Sounds like you have been ordered to amend the defence you did enter so had you maybe just put a note on the acknowledgement ?

I'll get some links for you and the defence points, but can you do a bit of a summary of what exactly happened at Poundland ( did you try shoplifting 70 items btw ? lol ) Was it a security guard stopped you leaving the premises, did they get the goods back in saleable condition, were the police involved at all etc ?
So have you read the 'Oxford Judgment' ? If not do so, http://legalbeagles.info/wp-content/...edJudgment.pdf and appeal transcript http://legalbeagles.info/wp-content/...sB09052012.pdf



So the entire claim is for £70 for the goods, and £197.36 for unspecified ' case costs'.

Have they given any breakdown of these 'case costs' in their letters etc at all ? Was that their entire particulars of claim ? Only you mention " Claim under torts to recover compensation for loss and consequential damages" but that isn't stated in their particulars at all, only in their first letters?

The Defence ( and you'll want to do a part 18 request as well but too late to do that before your defence is due in ) will need to ask what those costs are.

Also.... is the Claimant CRS or Poundland ? CRS can't sue you in their own right. So who is the Claimant, and who are the 'Solicitors' ?

[Amethyst]

Were you an employee of Poundland ?

If so, then what happened regarding your employment ?

[dave top]

Were you an employee of Poundland ?

If so, then what happened regarding your employment ?

Yes an employee, he was caught at the self service till by the stores cctv, he was 16 at the time of the incident, manager and store security took him into the office, no police called, not asked to repay anything no parents called, told him to resign immediately or be sacked, goods not recovered, the claim for £70 must be over the course of his employment (6 months ) told him to expect a letter in the post, they drove him home after because he was in such a distressed state, by the time crs started to write he was 17, about 5 letters in total from crs, no breakdown just the same threat if he did not pay, Aug 2017 court claim for arrives, all deadlines followed and the defense was that he is under 18, took until jan 2018 got a letter from the court stating case was stayed, now april 2018 and he is now 18 a new order arrives ( see 1st post) Yes claimant is poundland, thanks

[Amethyst]

Would you be able to post a copy of your defence, I presume that the Claimant has asked the court to strike it out as it doesn't comply with CPR 16.

Was it a case of putting the odd thing through the self service till without scanning ? Was he on duty at the time?

Thank you xxx

[dave top]

Would you be able to post a copy of your defence, I presume that the Claimant has asked the court to strike it out as it doesn't comply with CPR 16.

Was it a case of putting the odd thing through the self service till without scanning ? Was he on duty at the time?

Thank you xxx

Thanks for your help,

Yes exactly that, it is suspected that a colleague grassed him up, if that was the case they clearly would not have been watching him do it for for 6 months, so i think they have inflated the £70 loss, it is after all a pound shop

Yes on duty at the time

[dave top]

I have read the Oxford judgment but for a layman to pick out and digest the parts that i need to help put a defense is not easy, not to mention trying to get to grips on how you present the information on the defense form, if it is such a clear case that they can not claim for a loss that has not occurred because they already paid staff to do that just that then surely there has to be, ( for want of a better word ) a template with the appropriate text, i have searched all over the internet and all the posts I've seen say that all the threats you get from these companies is bluster, they never make a court claim because they no they can't win, so in my very simple mind there have to be a very simple defense for this type of claim, i would appreciate any help, i don't want them to win by default, many thanks

[dave top]

Judge has concluded that the case is suitable for mediation, is this a good route to go down? no date included for a hearing so i assume they wait for the 7 days to pass to see if both parties agree,

[Kati]

Amethyst Celestine ??

[jaguarsuk]

I have read the Oxford judgment but for a layman to pick out and digest the parts that i need to help put a defense is not easy, not to mention trying to get to grips on how you present the information on the defense form, if it is such a clear case that they can not claim for a loss that has not occurred because they already paid staff to do that just that then surely there has to be, ( for want of a better word ) a template with the appropriate text, i have searched all over the internet and all the posts I've seen say that all the threats you get from these companies is bluster, they never make a court claim because they no they can't win, so in my very simple mind there have to be a very simple defense for this type of claim, i would appreciate any help, i don't want them to win by default, many thanks

The other threads relate to where the goods have been recovered by the store, in the instance it is all bluster and they do just go away hence the statement of shock by Amethyst in post #5.

The Oxford case is relevant as they can't claim for the cost of the security guard being there or the security detection equipment used as it was determined in that case that those things are part of running the store and costs the claimant would incur regardless of whether a theft occurred or not as you say.

In regard the cost of the unrecovered goods then they obviously have a claim here as they have suffered a loss of the value of those goods and they should be compensated for those.

You say your son resigned, so did they make any deduction from his final wage for those losses? If they did they have already recovered what they adjudged to be their losses and cannot claim for them again.

Judge has concluded that the case is suitable for mediation, is this a good route to go down? no date included for a hearing so i assume they wait for the 7 days to pass to see if both parties agree,

Mediation is good as it shows that you are trying to settle the claim without need of a hearing.

I think the main points to make with the mediator are the points I have raised about the oxford case and then if they haven't recovered their loses yet make an offer to repay those. Make no offer to repay their legal fees as had they been reasonably pursuing recovery of their losses and not inflated sums they are not entitled to be compensated foe the matter would never had reached the stage its at now.

My worry for you if this goes to trial is that your defence is not going to stand up against this claim now your son is over the age of 18. I think if this is not settled at mediation you need to apply to the court to amend the defence and file a proper one based on the oxford case.

Did you send a part 18 request to question the costs? If not you should do that ASAP. If you did send another on asking how they have calculated the value of the lost goods or if you haven't add that to the question about the cost when sending it.

I'm actually surprised they haven't applied to strike out the defence and have summary judgement entered against your son... I would have.

[dave top]

The other threads relate to where the goods have been recovered by the store, in the instance it is all bluster and they do just go away hence the statement of shock by Amethyst in post #5.

The Oxford case is relevant as they can't claim for the cost of the security guard being there or the security detection equipment used as it was determined in that case that those things are part of running the store and costs the claimant would incur regardless of whether a theft occurred or not as you say.

In regard the cost of the unrecovered goods then they obviously have a claim here as they have suffered a loss of the value of those goods and they should be compensated for those.

You say your son resigned, so did they make any deduction from his final wage for those losses? If they did they have already recovered what they adjudged to be their losses and cannot claim for them again.



Mediation is good as it shows that you are trying to settle the claim without need of a hearing.

I think the main points to make with the mediator are the points I have raised about the oxford case and then if they haven't recovered their loses yet make an offer to repay those. Make no offer to repay their legal fees as had they been reasonably pursuing recovery of their losses and not inflated sums they are not entitled to be compensated foe the matter would never had reached the stage its at now.

My worry for you if this goes to trial is that your defence is not going to stand up against this claim now your son is over the age of 18. I think if this is not settled at mediation you need to apply to the court to amend the defence and file a proper one based on the oxford case.

Did you send a part 18 request to question the costs? If not you should do that ASAP. If you did send another on asking how they have calculated the value of the lost goods or if you haven't add that to the question about the cost when sending it.

I'm actually surprised they haven't applied to strike out the defence and have summary judgement entered against your son... I would have.

Thank you that's very helpful.

Basically the store staff interrogated him in the office, at the time he was 16 and they did not call a parent or guardian, he resigned because they told him to,so there was no real opportunity for him to dispute the amount they said they lost, at the time he would of done anything they said really, no police called, nothing signed. they had an opportunity to deduct any money they considered they had lost because he got a final salary after the 1st letter from crs,

I did submit another defense and the letter in post 11 is the result of that.

We have a hearing date now, beginning of July, can i still send a part 18 request? who do i send it to if i can

Many thanks

[jaguarsuk]

Thank you that's very helpful.

Basically the store staff interrogated him in the office, at the time he was 16 and they did not call a parent or guardian, he resigned because they told him to,so there was no real opportunity for him to dispute the amount they said they lost, at the time he would of done anything they said really, no police called, nothing signed. they had an opportunity to deduct any money they considered they had lost because he got a final salary after the 1st letter from crs,

I did submit another defense and the letter in post 11 is the result of that.

We have a hearing date now, beginning of July, can i still send a part 18 request? who do i send it to if i can

Many thanks

Yes you can, you send it to the solicitors.

Part 18 allows you to ask questions and you should also serve a copy to the court with a certificate of service. This way if they refuse or ignore the Part 18 then you can bring it up in the hearing.

It would be useful to see the other defence as your son will need to file a Witness Statement 14 days prior to the hearing and serve it on the claimant.

If you want to speak on his behalf you will need to submit a letter to the court from him stating that he wishes you to speak on his behalf under the Rights of Audience regulations otherwise it'll be him whom has to do all the talking in court.