Letter from RLP after caught shoplifting from Boots

[Amethyst]

Re: Letter from RLP after caught shoplifting from Boots

Read the full Oxford CC case Judgment http://www.legalbeagles.info/ApprovedJudgment.pdf

And the Appeal question – http://www.legalbeagles.info/ARetailervMsB09052012.pdf

We have the transcripts of the hearing too if you're interested

[Openlaw15]

Re: Letter from RLP after caught shoplifting from Boots

@@@@

Can you give me the citation for the Oxford case please, i'd be interested (not interesting, hmm) in reading its ratio.

[bluebottle]

Re: Letter from RLP after caught shoplifting from Boots

I could think of a business argument for making a civil claim....but i'd rather not speculate.
I'd like to see them try. The Oxford Case made matters very clear.
It is possible for a claim for the amount, but the young girl could make a counter claim for trespass of her person (i think it's called).
Boots are in a weak position due to the actions of the manager an security officer. The young lady, on the other hand, could bring an action for Unlawful Detention/Unlawful Imprisonment and she could also report Boots to the ICO for breaching the Data Protection Act 1998 (Unfair Handling of Data), if they took her name and address.

@@@@

[charitynjw]

Re: Letter from RLP after caught shoplifting from Boots

Refer attachment post #133 above

- - - Updated - - -

I could think of a business argument for making a civil claim....but i'd rather not speculate. It is possible for a claim for the amount, but the young girl could make a counter claim for trespass of her person (i think it's called)

.

Refer attachment post #133 above

[bluebottle]

Re: Letter from RLP after caught shoplifting from Boots

Bluebottle

The statement has been made that she did not have any goods with her when she left the store. I would have thought that would have had a great bearing on matters..

If that is, indeed, the case, Ostell, then it is, potentially, very serious. Security officers have no powers of search whatsoever. Boots and the security officer are, possibly, looking at unlawful detention/imprisonment if this is correct.

[Openlaw15]

Re: Letter from RLP after caught shoplifting from Boots

I very much doubt a court would entertain a civil claim from Boots in this case as they accepted payment for the goods. The cost of security is included in the mark-up they apply to the wholesale price of the goods.

Also, if someone is a repeat invader, then it is open to a retailer to apply to the county court for an injunction, which is a lot more effective than a banning letter.

I could think of a business argument for making a civil claim....but i'd rather not speculate. It is possible for a claim for the amount, but the young girl could make a counter claim for trespass of her person (i think it's called).

[ostell]

Re: Letter from RLP after caught shoplifting from Boots

Bluebottle

The statement has been made that she did not have any goods with her when she left the store. I would have thought that would have had a great bearing on matters..

[Openlaw15]

Re: Letter from RLP after caught shoplifting from Boots

I very much doubt a court would entertain a civil claim from Boots in this case as they accepted payment for the goods. The cost of security is included in the mark-up they apply to the wholesale price of the goods.

Also, if someone is a repeat invader, then it is open to a retailer to apply to the county court for an injunction, which is a lot more effective than a banning letter.

Security have to be so careful because they have limited powers, threatening young girl, intimidating her, potentially holding her against their will (ie false arrest)...are problematic.

[bluebottle]

Re: Letter from RLP after caught shoplifting from Boots

It's like this. It is a civil action for lost goods. It is not criminal at all, so it's not a criminal record issue. It's the police and Crown Prosecution Services who say it's criminal offence. The company will have to apply for a county court judgement against you for that amount. So, if you were to pay off that amount or ask them if you can pay it off over a few installments, that's the end of the matter. How many times have you stolen from the relevant store as banned for life seems very harsh unless you're a threat to their business, ie you have stolen goods several times or are a regular offender.

I very much doubt a court would entertain a civil claim from Boots in this case as they accepted payment for the goods. The cost of security is included in the mark-up they apply to the wholesale price of the goods.

Also, if someone is a repeat invader, then it is open to a retailer to apply to the county court for an injunction, which is a lot more effective than a banning letter.

[bluebottle]

Re: Letter from RLP after caught shoplifting from Boots

Yes I paid for the good £18. The security guard wouldn't let me keep the receipt because he said I was not allowed to return stolen good. He also said "I will let you keep these because you've paid for them usually we have to burn the stolen goods" I was like right ok. I just think he was trying to scare me and maybe make me cry! I didn't cry and was not scared. I'm just worried because he told me I have to pay a fine of £135. I didn't sign anything while I was in the room! He just seemed like he had not caught anyone for ages and was on a high.

Oh, that was considerate of the security officer to let slip what Boots are doing with stolen goods. I am sure a District or Deputy District Judge in the county court would be very interested to hear that. By accepting payment for the goods, Boots have, I suspect, closed the door to any further action. Was the security officer employed by Boots or an outside firm? If so, download the footage from your sister's phone onto a DVD and send it to his CEO, stating you are minded to make this available to the SIA. I would also let the CEO of Boots see it, too.

- - - Updated - - -

The security guard was shouting at me saying that the PCSO would call me and if I didn't answer my phone they would basically hunt me down. :/ yes she did record everything when we was in the room. He started asking if I earn money & where I worked when he asked them questions I said "why do you want to know" and he said "I'm only asking" I didn't feel in my rights I had to tell him this so I didn't.

If the manager accepted payment for the goods, then, as far as the law is concerned, that is Restorative Justice, under Criminal Law, and satisfaction of losses, under Civil Law. As stated above, my suspicion is that Boots have closed the door to any further action by accepting payment for the goods. You were right to politely tell him to go to hell when Shouty Man started asking you questions about your earnings and were you worked. It is none of his business, none of Boots business and unless the police get involved, which is unlikely now Boots have accepted payment for the goods, none of anyone's business. As for the other things he said, I am surprised you or your sister did not say, "Are you on something, is it legal and can I have some?" It does sound like he was on something.

@@@@

[charitynjw]

Re: Letter from RLP after caught shoplifting from Boots

And what are they going to do if you do ever bother to set foot in their premises again? Sue for trespass?

Set foot in Boots?

:lol:

[des8]

Re: Letter from RLP after caught shoplifting from Boots

It's like this. It is a civil action for lost goods. It is not criminal at all, so it's not a criminal record issue. It's the police and Crown Prosecution Services who say it's criminal offence. The company will have to apply for a county court judgement against you for that amount. So, if you were to pay off that amount or ask them if you can pay it off over a few installments, that's the end of the matter. How many times have you stolen from the relevant store as banned for life seems very harsh unless you're a threat to their business, ie you have stolen goods several times or are a regular offender.

Standard procedure for Boots to say "Banned for life from all Boots stores."
As it is private property they are entitled to refuse any person admission, aren't they?

A bit over the top, and almost impossible to enforce.
And what are they going to do if you do ever bother to set foot in their premises again? Sue for trespass?

[Openlaw15]

Re: Letter from RLP after caught shoplifting from Boots

I know this is really wordy and long but please take time to read this .

Recently, I was arrested (yes, the police were involved) for shoplifting from Boots (and subsequently banned for life) and the police dude who interviewed me told me that I would be released with police bail (NOT court) until I speak to a member to a Youth Offending Team (YOT) (as I'm 17 and is still a juvenile) who will then cancel the bail once I talked with them and hopefully I won't have to go to court (the same police officer said that there's 95-97% chance I WON'T go to court and that his 'guess' is usually right so a little assurance there :tinysmile_grin_t.

He also said that this will be wiped clean once I turn 18 years old so it won't turn up on CRB/background checks emplyers/universities go through.

Is this true?

Anyway, time for what the post/question is about: Retail Loss Prevention (RLP)

Yep, today I received a letter from them to pay for compensation (I'd rather think of them as fine) £147.50 otherwise they're going to do stuff with court. I personally think that this is more like a threat/blackmail, idk like 'gimme money or else'. My parents are thinking of paying the fine (and then I pay them back some way or another because it was me who did the wrongdoing) so they can avoid all the hassle and stuff.

In the letter and the internet, it also said that the information will stay in their national database.

This is what was written on the FAQ file you can find on the internet (Link: http://www.lossprevention.co.uk/pdf/adviceU18.pdf):

If you were 16 or 17 at the time of the incident, you are advised that the basic personal information we hold may be used in accordance with the Data Protection Act 1998 for the purposes of crime prevention and detection and is also held on a national database of civil recovery incidents. This information is available to companies with a legitimate interest to screen an individual’s integrity in relation to employment decisions. This information is held within a closed user group in accordance with the provisions of the Data Protection Act 1998 - for 3 years from the date of the incident. Access to the information may be available to the Claimant, the Courts, legal advisors, crime partnerships and the police where there is a legitimate reason for doing so in
accordance with the Act.

But this is what was written on the non-under18 FAQ (Link: http://www.lossprevention.co.uk/pdf/advice.pdf):
A civil claim for damages is separate from a criminal prosecution. At the conclusion of the civil claim, you will not have a criminal record.

Does this mean this can be seen by unis/employers when undergoing CRB checks and that it can harm my chance of getting into uni or getting employed?

Just to let you know, all the goods I stole were in resalable condition. and I didn't sign any papers the security officer from Boots gave me, including the banning letter. It's not because I refused, it was because THE SECURITY OFFICER DID NOT ASK ME TO SIGN ANYTHING.


THANKS A LOT for reading this through (I know it's really wordy and tedious)

Please don't judge me. It was really hard writing this because it was bringing up bad memories and worries.

Hopefully I provided you with all the information you need. If you need some additional info, let me know.

It's like this. It is a civil action for lost goods. It is not criminal at all, so it's not a criminal record issue. It's the police and Crown Prosecution Services who say it's criminal offence. The company will have to apply for a county court judgement against you for that amount. So, if you were to pay off that amount or ask them if you can pay it off over a few installments, that's the end of the matter. How many times have you stolen from the relevant store as banned for life seems very harsh unless you're a threat to their business, ie you have stolen goods several times or are a regular offender.

[charitynjw]

Re: Letter from RLP after caught shoplifting from Boots

As for any 'fine', see the attachment - & refer them to the Oxford case!

(Especially from para 14 onwards :tinysmile_twink_t2: )

[bluebottle]

Re: Letter from RLP after caught shoplifting from Boots

Hey blue bottle can I have some help please. I got caught today shop lifting in boots I was taken to a room out the back of the store and asked to hand over the goods ect. The security officer was very harsh towards me wouldn't let me talk was shouting over me and saying some pretty nasty things calling me a little girl :/ I know I did wrong it's the first time I have ever done something like this it was very stupid and I don't even know why I did it!!!! I regret it so much. Anyway he gave me letters as I am banned and he has gave me a letter about paying a fine? But I didn't quite get what it was for because I was in shock and it was all such a blur :/. When he asked for my ID witch has my own address on as I live on my own. I forgot what address was on my license and I said what address is on it and he said why what other address do you have and he didn't believe me that the address on my licence was my address he then went on to say if I did something like this again I would spend the night in a cell where people piss and have been sick :/ when I left he told me that I will be constantly watched whenever I am in town now. Surely I have rights to something? It was my first crime ever I made a mistake and he was looking & talking to me like I was a criminal. I know I did wrong but I shouldn't be watched for the rest of my life for it. The products came to £18 and I paid for them after as I was asked to and the manager said he didn't want to call the police because it wasn't a massive amount. The security guard was really trying to push him to call the police I feel like he was making it a lot bigger and worse than it actually was. I know theft is a stupid and bad thing but I have learnt my lesson I really have. I'm waiting for a PSO from my local town to contact me I feel like I'm going to explain how he made me feel. I just want to know where I stand because I have been reading loads onlike saying to not pay the fine? My sister even recorded it all because he was being so harsh.

Boots really do need to get a grip on their security contractors/staff. What goes this letter say about paying a fine? The only authority that impose a fine is a court of law. Also, you are under no obligation to provide your personal data to security staff or a retailer and they have no power in law to do so. The references to the police locking you in a cell are, I suspect, designed to intimidate and, if truth be told, the police see alleged shoplifting as a minor crime. As for the security officer saying you would be watched everywhere you went in town, he really does need to be careful of what he says as there are laws governing surveillance of individuals of which he clearly has little or no knowledge.

When you say a PSO, do you mean a PCSO? How badly did this security officer behave? Are you sure this was, in fact, shoplifting and not some security officer on an ego trip? What individuals in the retail and security industries perceive as shoplifting doesn't necessarily equate with how the law defines it. The accuser has to prove dishonesty and intent to permanently deprive. If they cannot prove dishonesty, the matter is going nowhere as the law requires a two-part test, known as the Ghosh Test, to be satisfied in full in order for dishonesty to be proven and, consequently, the offence to be proven.