Letter from RLP after caught shoplifting from Boots

[teaboy2]

Re: Letter from RLP after caught shoplifting from Boots

Erm... how can I be not found 'not guilty' if it is obvious that I shoplifted and I already owned up?

TO be clear, what BlueBottle and i have said, is you can not be found guilty of any crime in civil court. Only a criminal court with trial by jury may find you guilty, but only the police can charge and pass the case on to the crown prosecution service (CPS) for the CPS to prosecute you for shoplifting.

All the retailer and RLP can do is take you to civil county court, like a debt collector takes a debtor to court for monies owed. You do not get a criminal record from civil court even if you lose, its merely treated as a civil debt, so the worse you would get is a county court judgement.

But regardless of your admitting to it in the store, such admission was made under duress (panicked, intimidated and stressed as a result). So if they do try take you to court, which they won't if you send follow the advice already given, then you deny liability of costs of £147.50 plus legal costs, because its that that they will try take you to court for, not the actually act of shoplifting itself. So they would only be suing for what they alleged were costs the retailer incurred as a result of your actions, which is impossible for them to prove said cost, as they found out in the oxfordshire text case i mentioned earlier.

In fact you can also counter sue them, based on what bluebottle said in his first post in this thread. And you would win your counter claim, which would likely mean a tidy little sum for you in compensation, where as they (boots and RLP) would lose their claim outright. And they bloody well know they will lose too.

[thepinkranger]

Re: Letter from RLP after caught shoplifting from Boots

Although the room was locked from the outside, I think it was possible to open the door from the inside because when another shop worker knocked on the door of the security officer, the witness managed to open the door herself (this happened while the security guard was out of the room so it was just me and the female witness in the room.) and the lock used was one of those security password locks

[bluebottle]

Re: Letter from RLP after caught shoplifting from Boots

Thanks bluebottle and teaboy

But I don't want to go to court (neither do my parents)... is there something I could do?

Obtain the CCTV footage from Boots as it is pretty damning. Once you have that, you and your parents can then start to apply pressure on Boots and RLP. The ICO and SIA are two law enforcement/regulatory agencies you and your parents should get them onboard as soon as possible. Reading what I have, both Boots and RLP would be unwise to even attempt to take you to court.

[teaboy2]

Re: Letter from RLP after caught shoplifting from Boots

Please read the comments in red. The actions of the security officer have completely destroyed the credibility of Boots and RLP's claims. The female member of staff may think she is a witness for the security officer, but she can also be called as a witness to his unlawful actions. If she failed to question his actions and/or failed to stop him, it potentially makes her an accessory to his actions. Also, the Information Commissioner's Office (ICO) has some pretty awesome powers. Not only could the ICO fine both Boots and RLP up to £500,000 each for breaches of the Data Protection Act 1998, the ICO can also obtain a warrant to enter their premises, by force, with police, seize their IT hardware and software and manual records and then apply to a magistrate to have the manual records and IT hardware and software destroyed.

The use of a locked room is illegal. A retailer/private security have no power to detain you in this manner. Depends if the door was actually locked at anytime the OP was in the room though, which the OP has been very clear about.

TB has given you some excellent advice. I would be inclined to get your parents to report Boots and RLP/Cireco to the ICO. I would also make sure the CCTV footage of the security officer searching your bag and intimidating you are obtained from Boots. I am of the opinion the Security Industry Authority (SIA) should be sent a copy. Obtain the security officer's name, SIA licence number and its expiry date and the name of the company that employs him. This must be provided. If it is refused, the SIA could take action for that as well.

Much of, if not all, of what RLP spouts is of dubious legality, as the Oxford case showed. When put to strict proof, I suspect they and Boots would struggle to substantiate their claims.

Don't forget its illegal to search and question a minor with the presence of and adult or legal guardian. Regardless of whether they have a witness in the room or not!!

I knew it would only be a matter of time before you got your teeth out and took a bite at this thread mate lol

thepinkranger your in good hands with BlueBottle when it comes dealing with RLP - Especially since he is a former law man and had the badge to go with it (think the wild west).

[bluebottle]

Re: Letter from RLP after caught shoplifting from Boots

Found guilty by a court. RLP and its retail clients like to think they can dispense justice without involving the courts. They cannot. That is the job of the courts and only the courts. That is enshrined in UK domestic and international law.

[thepinkranger]

Re: Letter from RLP after caught shoplifting from Boots

Please read the comments in red. The actions of the security officer have completely destroyed the credibility of Boots and RLP's claims. The female member of staff may think she is a witness for the security officer, but she can also be called as a witness to his unlawful actions. If she failed to question his actions and/or failed to stop him, it potentially makes her an accessory to his actions. Also, the Information Commissioner's Office (ICO) has some pretty awesome powers. Not only could the ICO fine both Boots and RLP up to £500,000 each for breaches of the Data Protection Act 1998, the ICO can also obtain a warrant to enter their premises, by force, with police, seize their IT hardware and software and manual records and then apply to a magistrate to have the manual records and IT hardware and software destroyed.

The use of a locked room is illegal. A retailer/private security have no power to detain you in this manner.

TB has given you some excellent advice. I would be inclined to get your parents to report Boots and RLP/Cireco to the ICO. I would also make sure the CCTV footage of the security officer searching your bag and intimidating you are obtained from Boots. I am of the opinion the Security Industry Authority (SIA) should be sent a copy. Obtain the security officer's name, SIA licence number and its expiry date and the name of the company that employs him. This must be provided. If it is refused, the SIA could take action for that as well.

Much of, if not all, of what RLP spouts is of dubious legality, as the Oxford case showed. When put to strict proof, I suspect they and Boots would struggle to substantiate their claims.

Thanks bluebottle and teaboy

But I don't want to go to court (neither do my parents)... is there something I could do?

[thepinkranger]

Re: Letter from RLP after caught shoplifting from Boots

it is unlawful private companies to store or share data for crime prevention purposes, especially when a person has not been found guilty of any such offense, therefore making it nothing but an unsupported allegation.

Erm... how can I be not found 'not guilty' if it is obvious that I shoplifted and I already owned up?

[bluebottle]

Re: Letter from RLP after caught shoplifting from Boots

Wow I didn't expect a reply so quickly

This is what happened before the police stepped in (Please note that this may not be the accurate order of events):

The security officer stopped me from outside the store and told me to follow him to the store. I pretended to be innocent (because I panicked and I knew I was busted) by thinking that the security alarm went off and he just wanted to do a check. (I know, I really should not have done that.) I was led to a locked room which, judging by the number of security camera screens, seemed to be his office. When I entered the room, a female staff member was already in the room as a witness. She told me that she was just a shop floor worker and it's not everyday she gets to be a witness of an event like this.

As soon as I entered the room, he asked me what I stole. Silly boy. You don't make allegations like that without very strong evidence.

I came out clean and gave him back the goods I took. He then searched through my bag. Totally unlawful. The only people who have such a power are police officers and preventive officers of UK Border Agency (aka customs officers). Any claims by private security of a "Common Law Right" are entirely false and without foundation.

to see if I had stole any other things. When he did, he came across other make-up I had in my bag and accused me of stealing them as well. How do you know he didn't put it there? This is why retail security should never search an alleged shoplifter's bag. It leaves them open to all sorts of allegations and could lead to the SIA cancelling their licence if they are SIA-licensed.I had to tell him over and over again that the items I initially gave him were the only ones I stole and the other make-up in my bag were not stolen in any way. He eventually gave up and moved onto the important stuff.

He did the usual thing: he asked me for an ID, but I didn't have any so I gave him my student card from school (which only had a picture of me, my name and the school name) and I had to write down my home address, telephone no. etc myself. He and Boots have no right in law to demand ID, unless when purchasing an age-restricted product. They cannot demand your personal details either.

He then gave me that RLP leaflet, which I couldn't read properly at the time because I was too distressed and was panicking too much. Afterwards, he told me about the security camera in the room and that it is being recorded, then left the room to check the total price of the stolen goods (around £60). Good. Because it has recorded his unlawful actions. Ask for a cop yof the footage straight away.

When he came back, he told me that he called the police and after talking with the head manager I was banned from all Boots store across the country for life. He signed the letter and took it to the manager for him to sign the letter, then photocopied it so both parties could have a copy of the letter.

Throughout the time I was detained, he constantly kept reminding me that I was a bad girl, my parents are going to kill me etc. and it felt really intimidating and made the situation feel much, much worse. I'd say that the only word of comfort in the room was that he was going to write in his statement that I apologised to him several times and I was cooperative, I wasn't being aggressive etc. and told me not to panic. He is asking to lose his SIA licence and, consequently, his job. If he loses his licence, he will never be able to work in the security industry again.

I don't know whether I was allowed to roam around the premise or not because I didn't ask to go to the toilet, ask for water etc., but he certainly did not ask me whether I would like some water or go to the toilet.

I know for sure that the security officer did not touch me in any way so no physical assault there.

UPDATE: I forgot to mention, but the officer did not take any photos of me so I don't know how other workers from stores across the country would recognise me.

Please read the comments in red. The actions of the security officer have completely destroyed the credibility of Boots and RLP's claims. The female member of staff may think she is a witness for the security officer, but she can also be called as a witness to his unlawful actions. If she failed to question his actions and/or failed to stop him, it potentially makes her an accessory to his actions. Also, the Information Commissioner's Office (ICO) has some pretty awesome powers. Not only could the ICO fine both Boots and RLP up to £500,000 each for breaches of the Data Protection Act 1998, the ICO can also obtain a warrant to enter their premises, by force, with police, seize their IT hardware and software and manual records and then apply to a magistrate to have the manual records and IT hardware and software destroyed.

The use of a locked room is illegal. A retailer/private security have no power to detain you in this manner.

TB has given you some excellent advice. I would be inclined to get your parents to report Boots and RLP/Cireco to the ICO. I would also make sure the CCTV footage of the security officer searching your bag and intimidating you are obtained from Boots. I am of the opinion the Security Industry Authority (SIA) should be sent a copy. Obtain the security officer's name, SIA licence number and its expiry date and the name of the company that employs him. This must be provided. If it is refused, the SIA could take action for that as well.

Much of, if not all, of what RLP spouts is of dubious legality, as the Oxford case showed. When put to strict proof, I suspect they and Boots would struggle to substantiate their claims.

[thepinkranger]

Re: Letter from RLP after caught shoplifting from Boots

Wow I didn't expect a reply so quickly

This is what happened before the police stepped in (Please note that this may not be the accurate order of events):

The security officer stopped me from outside the store and told me to follow him to the store. I pretended to be innocent (because I panicked and I knew I was busted) by thinking that the security alarm went off and he just wanted to do a check. (I know, I really should not have done that.) I was led to a locked room which, judging by the number of security camera screens, seemed to be his office. When I entered the room, a female staff member was already in the room as a witness. She told me that she was just a shop floor worker and it's not everyday she gets to be a witness of an event like this.

As soon as I entered the room, he asked me what I stole. I came out clean and gave him back the goods I took. He then searched through my bag to see if I had stole any other things. When he did, he came across other make-up I had in my bag and accused me of stealing them as well. I had to tell him over and over again that the items I initially gave him were the only ones I stole and the other make-up in my bag were not stolen in any way. He eventually gave up and moved onto the important stuff.

After showing me the 'proof' (CCTV footage), he did the usual thing: he asked me for an ID, but I didn't have any so I gave him my student card from school (which only had a picture of me, my name and the school name) and I had to write down my home address, telephone no. etc myself. He then gave me that RLP leaflet, which I couldn't read properly at the time because I was too distressed and was panicking too much. Afterwards, he told me about the security camera in the room and that it is being recorded, then left the room to check the total price of the stolen goods (around £60).

When he came back, he told me that he called the police and after talking with the head manager I was banned from all Boots store across the country for life. He signed the letter and took it to the manager for him to sign the letter, then photocopied it so both parties could have a copy of the letter.

Throughout the time I was detained, he constantly kept reminding me that I was a bad girl, my parents are going to kill me etc. and it felt really intimidating and made the situation feel much, much worse. I'd say that the only word of comfort in the room was that he was going to write in his statement that I apologised to him several times and I was cooperative, I wasn't being aggressive etc. and told me not to panic.

I don't know whether I was allowed to roam around the premise or not because I didn't ask to go to the toilet, ask for water etc., but he certainly did not ask me whether I would like some water or go to the toilet.

I know for sure that the security officer did not touch me in any way so no physical assault there.

UPDATE: I forgot to mention, but the officer did not take any photos of me so I don't know how other workers from stores across the country would recognise me.

[teaboy2]

Re: Letter from RLP after caught shoplifting from Boots

RLP are not saying they will prosecute, they are threatening you with civil court not crown prosecution, as they have no power to prosecute you in criminal court. As per their storing of your data in their database and sharing with 3rd parties, simply send them a section 10 notices under the data protection act 1998 instructing them to remove all data they hold on you from all databases they mentioned in their letter, pointing out to them it is unlawful private companies to store or share data for crime prevention purposes, especially when a person has not been found guilty of any such offense, therefore making it nothing but an unsupported allegation. And also state such databases and sharing of details to prospective employers, universities etc is nothing more than a Black list, that is as per the building industry found out the hard way, unlawful. Make sure you also point out that your section 10 request also applies to their sister/parent company cireco which whom actually maintain their so called integrity screening database. Also make clear you did not consent to them processing or sharing your data, and any alleged consent they claim was given would have only been given whilst under duress in any case, making such alleged consent.

As per the compensation claim, state in the same letter that you refer them to the Oxfordshire test case (which RLP lost), where the judge made clear that they must proof actual loss as a result of any such alleged incident. And as no item was taken, or was returned at the time of the alleged incident, there is not actual loss to the retailer and certainly no loss amounting to £147.50 (which no dount includes RLP own fees, and commission for acting on behalf of the retailer). As the staff wages and cost of security and running and maintenance of CCTV is classed as everyday business running costs that they would have had to have paid even if the incident had not occurred.

AS for CRB check, no nothing will show on your CRB check. Its what RLP and their sister company do with your data without your consent that you should be worried about as they have no right in law to share your data with anyone, and must by law remove it under your section 10 request.



Can you provide us details as to how your were caught, how the security card handled you or man handle you (as it could be deemed as criminal assault)? Did they lock you in a room (by law your allowed to roam the premises so long as you do not exit the store once detained)? Did they give you water/drink on request or allow you to use the toilet? as much details as you can remember will help, as you could threaten to make a counter claim against boots if they have breached your rights.