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Very confused - our Small Claim was struck out today

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  • Very confused - our Small Claim was struck out today

    I am helping my partner to take Ladbrokes to Court. He found out about a known National issue they were having regarding cancelled bets. He had been getting bets cancelled for a long time and assumed it was normal. As well as this, there were several more issues which led to his complaining to them directly.

    He read about this cancelled bets issue, and discovered he had been denied £1000's in winnings illegally, and then obtained proof of over 100 cancelled bets from his account history. The details however, were not available to him. Things like selections and potential winnings, etc.

    Complaining to Ladbrokes got us nowhere. Then they closed his account. He made a Data Protection request and they responded by telling him there were zero cancelled bets in his history, not knowing we have screen shots that show at least 100.

    Okay. With me so far? Here are two news stories about the issue:

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/20...ormer-employee

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/20...reatens-to-sue

    So we took things through money claim online. Here is what I wrote on his behalf:


    "A Ladbrokes cmr 18 mths. They have exasperated me to the point where I will not give them 1 more chance to deal with my complaints, about cancelled bets that would have won big money, wrongly placed bets, promised callbacks that didn’t occur, non-cashed out bets, useless staff, wrongly settled bets, a withdrawal to the wrong bank which they assured me would not happen, ruining my holiday. I have given Ladbrokes countless chances to avoid litigation and they have failed every single time. Their system is purposely set up to make it impossible to complain. They also refused to send me a DSAR as per DPA. They have made me into a losing bettor and I am starting a website to tell people about this scam. Total = deposits - withdrawals, at least £3000."


    We then had a preliminary hearing, in which the Judge threw out our particulars of claim and told us to come up with new ones which detailed how the £3,000 was calculated. We wrote the following:


    "IN THE ??? COUNTY COURT CLAIM No. ???



    BETWEEN



    ????????

    Claimant

    -and-



    LADBROKES

    Defendant

    ____________________________________________

    DETAILED PARTICULARS OF CLAIM

    ____________________________________________



    1) Ladbrokes accepted bets from me and then cancelled them afterwards. This is a known issue with this bookmaker and is the subject of the news stories attached to these POC. There must be well over 100 of these cancelled bets in my account, and I estimate that the total winnings I have lost out on because of this will meet, if not exceed, the £3,000 that I have asked for in this case, ALONE, regardless of the further pleadings. I am unable to give an exact figure because Ladbrokes have closed my account and told me there are no cancelled bets. I am now complaining to the Information Commissioner about this despicable bookmaker and their lies.

    2) Ladbrokes advised me that a large withdrawal of money from my account would be paid to a specific bank/card and I relied on this information. I then went on holiday to Brazil only to find they had withdrawn the funds to an account I no longer had access to. I warned them I would hold them responsible for the Loss of chance from my ruined holiday as I was penniless by this point, and they refused to reverse the withdrawal, and send the money to the right account, or do anything to take ownership of the mess they created. The cost of this ruined holiday was £2,350.

    3) I cashed out several bets I had placed on live games on Ladbrokes website, according to wrongly presented information on said games, such as incorrect scores. The cash out sections led me to believe the cashout total was favorable according to the current results of said games, when in fact the games were going my way, and so the cashout offered was far from favorable. I have proof of this. Total cost from lost winnings is approx.. £550.

    4) Ladbrokes website failed to remove selections I had removed from my betslips and then placed the wrong bets. Total money I estimate I am out of pocket is £400.

    5) Ladbrokes ‘in game’ live graphics are misleading and have led to my placing bets which did not have a hope of winning. I have proof of this. Total of lost money placed on bets is approx. £400.

    6) Even though I am out of pocket, by my conservative estimation, at least £6,700, I could only ask for £3,000. Unfortunately, this was the upper limit of the claim amount, according to the filing fee I could afford to pay."


    It appears that the email I sent to the Court had the above new particulars of claim, but for some reason the two news stories did not attach to the email before being sent.

    So today, we get this response:


    "UPON the Court considering the detailed particulars of claim received on 29/10/19. AND the Court noting that the detailed particulars of claim do not contain a concise statement of the facts on which the claimant relies IT IS ORDERED THAT 1. The particulars of claim be struck out as being totally without merit. 2. Leave to parties to apply pursuant to CPR 3.3 (5) and (6)"


    We are really very unhappy about this.

    Are we able to start this claim again? Or do we need to make an application?

    How much is an application, and how much more detailed do we need to be?

    Have we just been unlucky with an awful Judge?

    Would it be the same Judge who considers an application?


    ​​​​​​​
    Tags: None

  • #2
    We are quite anxious about this. Can anyone offer their advice on what we should do next please?

    Comment


    • #3
      To be brutally honest I'm not surprised it was struck out. You really should have done some research on how to format and articulate the particulars of claim. As it is it reads like a witness statement and a bit of a rant at that.

      Originally posted by LaylaBrown View Post

      Are we able to start this claim again? Or do we need to make an application?

      How much is an application, and how much more detailed do we need to be?

      Have we just been unlucky with an awful Judge?

      Would it be the same Judge who considers an application?


      ​​​​​​​
      I think you'll need to make the application but I'm sure Amethyst or R0b could advise.

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      Comment


      • #4
        An application for relief from sanctions would cost £255.

        What was the exact wording of the order following the preliminary hearing ?

        The news articles are irrelevant.

        You haven't actually stated any legal basis for your claim.

        What was the reason the £3000 was paid to an account you no longer had access to ? how did Ladbrokes have the details of that account ? and where is that money now?
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        Comment


        • #5
          £255!

          Could we just file again and put a clear legal argument?

          Comment


          • #6
            Sure you can file a claim again, but you then run the risk that claim gets struck out as an abuse of process and for your ignorance of a court order you might just get slapped with paying Ladbrokes' costs - so you'll be left out of pocket and in an even worse place than you started out.

            Application is the way to go, I suggest which would need to be supported by a witness statement and I also suggest you prepare a properly pleaded particulars of claim as part of the application to show a judge you have a lawful basis to bring a claim in the first place.

            You might be able to save some money but getting Ladbrokes not to oppose your application which might save you £155 but a judge might still require you to attend court.

            Check out some useful guides below

            A guide to voluntary termination
            Seting aside a CCJ
            Completing an N180 Form (Courtesy of Jaguarsuk)

            - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
            LEGAL DISCLAIMER
            Please be aware that this is a public forum and is therefore accessible to anyone. The content I post on this forum is not intended to be legal advice nor does it establish any client-lawyer type relationship between you and me. Some of the content I post may include example wording, letters, or other similar responses but they are intended purely for informational and educational purposes. Using some or all of the content I post may fail to meet your needs that is specific to your situation. Therefore any use of my content is at your own risk and I cannot be held responsible in any way. It is always recommended that you seek independent legal advice and you can do this through the Law Society's Find a Solicitor database, by contacting your local Citizen's Advice Bureau or legal advice centres such as LawWorks. You may also be able to seek legal advice from your local university who may run a free (but limited) legal advice clinic to members of the public.

            Comment


            • #7
              Rob...

              We have not got a legitimate claim as far as the Judge is conncerned. Can you tell me where/how there is the danger of getting it struck out of we file a new claim with legal argument this time?


              ​​​​​​Please can someone help us with wording! The two main points are 1 and 2 above.

              1) Cancelation of bets placed. I am thinking breach of contract?

              2) Loss of chance compensation. We relied on them transferring our (then) winnings of £1100 to the account they told us they would transfer to - account A. We had access to this account. The other account (B) we had previously used to deposit money to Ladbrokes we were no longer using, had no bank card for, etc.

              On holiday in Brazil, he then could not access the money they transferred to - account B, and so, ruined the holiday.

              Comment


              • #8
                Your claim was struck out for non-compliance with the Civil Procedure Rules not because you dont have a legitimate claim.

                You can't file a second claim relating to matter which a court has already made a decision on. That's an abuse of process and I suggest you re-read the Court Order, it refers to CPR 3.3(5) and 3.3(6).

                https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/pr...les/part03#3.3
                Check out some useful guides below

                A guide to voluntary termination
                Seting aside a CCJ
                Completing an N180 Form (Courtesy of Jaguarsuk)

                - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
                LEGAL DISCLAIMER
                Please be aware that this is a public forum and is therefore accessible to anyone. The content I post on this forum is not intended to be legal advice nor does it establish any client-lawyer type relationship between you and me. Some of the content I post may include example wording, letters, or other similar responses but they are intended purely for informational and educational purposes. Using some or all of the content I post may fail to meet your needs that is specific to your situation. Therefore any use of my content is at your own risk and I cannot be held responsible in any way. It is always recommended that you seek independent legal advice and you can do this through the Law Society's Find a Solicitor database, by contacting your local Citizen's Advice Bureau or legal advice centres such as LawWorks. You may also be able to seek legal advice from your local university who may run a free (but limited) legal advice clinic to members of the public.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Rob, thank you.

                  Could you, or anyone here, help with writing the legal part of this? We will send this application ASAP, tomorrow.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I'm not going to draft your particulars of claim if that's what you are asking, that's something you need to do yourself.

                    You have identified at least in cause of action which is a potential breach of contract though I'm not sure your loss if chance would fly but that's up to you.

                    A basic template for breach of contract in particulars of claim would be something like the following:

                    1. Introduction: Who are the parties?
                    2. Factual background: This should set out a summary of essential facts leading up to the breach. It would be relevant to say here that by placing the best, the claimant entered into a contract with Ladbrokes.
                    3. Breach: Here you set out the breach and how it occurred.
                    4. Loss: What loss has been suffered.
                    5. Remedies: What are you asking the court to order.

                    One word of advice, do not rush into drafting these and then firing it off as you only get one chance to get it right. Drafting particulars of claim is not something you can knock up in 5 minutes.
                    Check out some useful guides below

                    A guide to voluntary termination
                    Seting aside a CCJ
                    Completing an N180 Form (Courtesy of Jaguarsuk)

                    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
                    LEGAL DISCLAIMER
                    Please be aware that this is a public forum and is therefore accessible to anyone. The content I post on this forum is not intended to be legal advice nor does it establish any client-lawyer type relationship between you and me. Some of the content I post may include example wording, letters, or other similar responses but they are intended purely for informational and educational purposes. Using some or all of the content I post may fail to meet your needs that is specific to your situation. Therefore any use of my content is at your own risk and I cannot be held responsible in any way. It is always recommended that you seek independent legal advice and you can do this through the Law Society's Find a Solicitor database, by contacting your local Citizen's Advice Bureau or legal advice centres such as LawWorks. You may also be able to seek legal advice from your local university who may run a free (but limited) legal advice clinic to members of the public.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Thank you. Here is the legal argument I sent with the new particulars of claim. Any idea why the Judge rejected these?



                      1) BREACH OF CONTRACT: Ladbrokes accepted easily 100 bets from me, took money from my account to pay for them, forming the contracts, and assigned bet ID’s, and then cancelled said bets, contravening the contracts. Money was lost when these cancelled bets went on to win, and Ladbrokes have refused to honor these contracted bets, indeed they have compounded the breaches by denying the bets were placed. The news stories I sent as a separate PDF detail this known issue.



                      2) LOSS OF CHANCE AND BREACH OF DUTY OF CARE AFTER CONTRACT WAS FORMED: Ladbrokes had £1,200 of my winnings in the account I held with them, and told me the money would be withdrawn to a specific bank account that I owned. It told them it was needed for my upcoming holiday to Brazil. In reliance on their information, I left the country and waited for the funds to hit my bank account. Ladbrokes sent the money to a different bank account that I no longer had access to, and so, with no access to these funds the holiday was ruined. I claim damages to compensate me, so that I am financially no worse off than before going to Brazil, as I would not have gone had I known I would have no money to spend.




                      3) FRAUDULENT AND NEGLIGENT MISREPRESENTATION: I am also suing Ladbrokes for misrepresenting important information and giving me inaccurate information on their website that enticed me to place, alter, and/or cancel existing/new bets. These bets and cash-out sums would have been significantly more profitable, or seen money stay in my account balance, instead of being placed on subsequently terrible bets, had Ladbrokes properly represented in-play game statistics, graphic displays, score lines, etc.


                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by LaylaBrown View Post
                        Rob, thank you.

                        Could you, or anyone here, help with writing the legal part of this? We will send this application ASAP, tomorrow.
                        If you want someone to draft Particulars of Claim you need to engage a solicitor, that's why they exist.
                        COMPLETING AN N180 DIRECTIONS QUESTIONNAIRE (SMALL CLAIMS TRACK) GUIDE

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                        Comment


                        • #13
                          "There must be well over 100 of these cancelled bets in my account, and I estimate that the total winnings I have lost out on because of this will meet, if not exceed, the £3,000 that I have asked for in this case"

                          This is not how to word this. You should have said something like:

                          103 bets were cancelled. My average winnings per bet with Ladbrokes were £31.33. Loss = £3226.99.

                          Obviously, I don't know the actual numbers, but you need to be as exact as possible. What you can't do is say you have estimated something without any details at all of how you have estimated it. The reason is that the other party have a right to challenge your estimate, in detail, and they cannot do that unless you say how you have made it. You would have to back up the 103 and the 31.33 in evidence, by the way.


                          My real concern with your claim, however, is that without evidence of the cancelled bets and their outcomes, it's hard to believe that they were winning bets. Most punters lose, rather than win, on average, and having a bet cancelled simply means that on average they lose less. If you were suing over one or two bets, it would be simpler.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            You wouldn't be Portsmouth C C by any chance would you?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by ostell View Post
                              You wouldn't be Portsmouth C C by any chance would you?
                              lol huh? Why

                              Comment

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