Civil claim following employee theft

[kaluzasrevenge]

Hi all,

Just over 2 years ago, I was fired from my job with a high-street retailer for gross misconduct. Over a few months leading up to that point I had, prompted by extreme financial difficulties, manipulated the till system to steal money. It was several hundred pounds by the time it was uncovered. When I was challenged by a company loss prevention investigator I immediately admitted full culpability. After the investigation I was handed over to the police. After being fired I attended court, representing myself and pleaded guilty. Due to a complete absence of any history of criminal activities and good character, I was ordered to repay the amount stolen plus fees. I was given a few months to do this, and I paid the full amount within the deadline.

3 days ago I received a letter from Business Loss Prevention (a Derby-based company) on behalf of my former employer. The first thing I want to point out is that they spell my surname incorrectly. They are bringing a civil claim against me for £1242.32. This is far in excess of the amount that I stole (and paid back). They state that if I pay the claim within 7 days I can pay a reduced amount of £993.86.
Now they do have a breakdown of the claim, see below (copied exactly as shown on the letter, including the pointless 3 decimal places; the sloppiness is almost as annoying as the claim)

		Hours/miles	Hourly Rate	Total	Fringe@37%	Total
						0
						0
AB	Investigation	16	30	480	177.6	657.6
CD	Travelling	2	20	40	14.8	54.8
CD	Investigation	6	20	120	44.4	164.4
CD	Train	15	0	0		15
CD	Food & Drink	15				15
						0
						906.8
	Admin Fee @ 37%					335.516
	Total case value					1242.316

AB and CD (initials which I have changed) are, I believe, the 2 company investigators responsible for dealing with my situation. One to investigate it and one to conduct the investigation itself (although whilst one conducted it there were two investigators present).

Now I know I committed a crime, I always conceded my guilt and I paid back everything I stole. I can even understand that companies have the right to make these civil claims. But I guess what is making me pause is the amount and how that is determined. Obviously they have gone to some length to justify the claim amount, but I still have questions/observations:

1) What on earth is Fringe?
2) There is absolutely no way that loss prevention investigators get paid £30 per hour working for that retailer. That's equivalent to £60K per year. I was a manager so I understand the payscales involved.
3) I am under the impression that the company has to demonstrate that the disruption caused by my actions are worth this claim. But it's AB and CD's job to deal with these situations....they are literally doing their day job. And am I seriously paying for their lunch?!

Any insight you can provide would be awesome. Most of the information I can find online (eg the CAB website) is skewed to shoplifters and people who contest the crime. My situation is obviously different to that.

[des8]

Re: Civil claim following employee theft

Hi and Welcome.#

BLP... now that's a new company for us, but doubtlessly they follow the same pattern as the rest of their ilk.

Yes, your ex employer could sue you for losses and damages you caused them, but as you suggest they have to prove their losses.
BLP can't initiate court action, it has to be the employer, so I suppose the letter is full of "ifs and buts, may and mights".

My advice would be to ignore, but it would (or may!) help if you could post up a copy of the letter suitably sanitised.

[Kati]

Re: Civil claim following employee theft

If there's already been a court case and the money has been paid, wouldn't that make it difficult for the company to claim more now [MENTION=39710]des8[/MENTION]?? I mean ... they should have added all these costs etc... at the time shouldn't they??

[Amethyst]

Re: Civil claim following employee theft

When you say they are bringing a civil claim against you, do you mean they have issued court papers or have just started chasing you ? Have the company previously asked for any recompense for costs associated with the offence at all ?

They will have to justify the breakdown, and evidence the travel etc. Presumably the 15 next to Train and Food/Drink should be in the Total column. Where (if you know) were AB and CD based that they had to travel and have lunch out to investigate ? So AB gets paid £30 an hour and CD gets £20 an hour, nice work if you can get it lol. No idea what a fringe is either, but they seem to add another 37% on as an admin fee as well, so really doubling that up.

It would be interesting to see the letter they have sent you.

The Director of the company is a Solicitor ( http://solicitors.lawsociety.org.uk/...ermina-webster ) from her Linked In looks like she used to work at CRS ( a more well known civil recovery outfit)

Seems they do a No Win No Fee service so could just be your ex-employer has been marketed to and are just trying it on.

[kaluzasrevenge]

Re: Civil claim following employee theft

Thanks so much for the replies guys, I have included a redacted copy of the top letter to this reply.
Amethyst; this is the first news I have had regarding a civil claim from anyone, so I suppose it is the start of the chase

[Amethyst]

Re: Civil claim following employee theft

Okayyyyyyyy. Not great grammatically is it. And not hugely compliant with pre-action protocols.

As this is the first you have heard I think I would be inclined to file it away and await further correspondance from them for the moment. If they do continue then consider a response ( which would be basically asking them to quantify/justify/evidence those 'costs' ( and find out what 'fringe' is lol ) If they do just file a court claim then defend it.

In my view as you have already been fined by the courts and have repaid the amount taken - you have had your 'punishment' and that is that. Civil claims do have some basis but it's become too much like speculative invoicing.

Do you know the employees who carried out the investigation btw? what their jobs actually are?

I'll try dig some case law up for you in a while ( Friday school/work/college run )

[des8]

Re: Civil claim following employee theft

In 2011 the Law Commission published a consultation paper - entitled Reforming Consumer Redress for Misleading and Aggressive Practices - in which it stated:
"If the theft caused significant disruption to the retailer's business, then the law allows the store to claim for the staff time diverted to dealing with the effects of the disruption. However, the [retailer] would need to prove that the disruption was significant, and that staff time as actually diverted. The law does not generally allow fixed sum penalties. Nor does it allow [retailers] to apportion the overheads incurred for security and surveillance to individual shoplifters."
The principle applies to any type of loss caused by a third party:
cf http://swarb.co.uk/aerospace-publishing-ltd-and-another-v-thames-water-utilities-ltd-ca-11-jan-2007/

It is also arguable that The Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 apply to misleading and unfair practices in collecting debts and other payments, including alleged costs caused by theft.
So has your employer actually instructed BLP to initiate court action as claimed (it will cost them if they lose!), or have they just passed it over following a marketing approach with vague instructions about making some sort of recovery and BLP are misleading you?

In view of the poor quality of this letter as an LBA i would , as per [MENTION=6]Amethyst[/MENTION]< file it for the time being to see what else they produce.

[kaluzasrevenge]

Re: Civil claim following employee theft

[MENTION=6]Amethyst[/MENTION] I have gone through my old documentation and have the job titles:
AB was Loss Prevention Manager
CD was District Loss Prevention Manager
Odd that the more senior one gets paid less!?

Also it only occurred to me today but my current address (whilst one I lived at previously) is not the one I was living at when I was dismissed 2 years ago. In fact my dismissal letter has a different address. Is it odd that BLP have my newer address which my former employer has no reason to be aware of?

[slainte caragh]

Re: Civil claim following employee theft

Out of sheer curiousity I googled "Fringe legal term".

The only thing that came up was fringe benefits (you're paying for their wage benefits?!?) I literally can't find anything else!!

What is a fringe expense?


Human resource management: Compensation in addition to direct wages or salaries, such as company car, house allowance, medical insurance, paid holidays, pension schemes, subsidized meals. Some fringe benefits are regarded part of a taxable income.

[kaluzasrevenge]

Well just a quick update: I have received a further 2 letters (although the second one claimed to be the 3rd sent).
The latest letter which I received a few days ago states:

Dear Mr ************

We write further to previous correspondence on this matter.

We have made a concerted effort to resolve this claim, but are disappointed to note that you have not contacted us in order to settle this mater (misspelled) out of court.

Our client may now proceed to court in order to obtain a county court judgment (misspelled) against you.

If they do issue Court proceedings they will seek an order from the court that they are awarded costs and interest in addition to the sum claimed above.

Their claim with therefore include:

a. Claim Value as above
b. Interest due under the County Courts Act at 8%
c. Court fees and
d. Fixed Legal Costs

We are however aware of our obligation under the Civil Procedure Rules to make every attempt to settle a claim without having to resort to Court action. Therefore we are willing to honour the original claim value until 4pm on the 7th day after the date of this letter.

If you do not contact us within 7 days to settle the claim in full, or to arrange a repayment plan with us, our client will reserve the right to issue proceedings without further notice.

Yours sincerely,

Business Loss Prevention Limited

[ostell]

They don't seem to have learnt from the RLP Oxford case! They are claiming for the cost of two loss prevention officers but investigating a loss is exactly what they are being paid to do. They would have been paid anyway even they did not have your case to handle and therefore their salary is not a loss. I believe the judge in the Oxford case commented on this. Here's a Link to the matter.

Perhaps you could write to them pointing them in the direction of the RLP case and the comments made by HHJ Harris about the wages of the security staff not being an expense occasioned by the action of the defendants but money that would have been paid anyway.

[kaluzasrevenge]

They don't seem to have learnt from the RLP Oxford case! They are claiming for the cost of two loss prevention officers but investigating a loss is exactly what they are being paid to do. They would have been paid anyway even they did not have your case to handle and therefore their salary is not a loss. I believe the judge in the Oxford case commented on this. Here's a Link to the matter.

Perhaps you could write to them pointing them in the direction of the RLP case and the comments made by HHJ Harris about the wages of the security staff not being an expense occasioned by the action of the defendants but money that would have been paid anyway.

Thanks for the response Ostell; that sums up exactly how I have felt about this process, the idea that I am reimbursing someone for doing the job that they are paid to do. In my case over-paying them :/

[des8]

I wouldn't bother even acknowledging their existence, mlet alone write to them.
Writing only seems to make these firms redouble their efforts.
That letter is full of "mights" and "mays" and is an invitation to pay, backed by veiled threats.
Do nothing unless a proper letter before action is received. (the chances of which are very remote!!)

[ostell]

It was just a suggestion to write to them to let them know that you know that what they are claiming is a load of rubbish and previous attempts at this have cost the claimant dearly. Might just stop further letters.

[jaguarsuk]

As the OP has not consented to these parasites being the controllers of their data then I'd be making a complaint to the ICO under the DPA 1998.

They are not processing the OP's data fairly or lawfully as they don't satisfy the requirements of schedule 2. They cannot satisfy a single one: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1998/29/schedule/2

I might be inclined if I were the OP to write a similarly speculative letter to my former employer regarding them disclosing my personal information to third parties without my consent citing the Data Protection Act 1998 S55(1) and enclosing a copy of the letters to prove it. I would probably use words like "wishing to settle the matter amicably and without need for further action," that I "might take legal advice which could result in court proceedings being issued against them." I'd point out also that DPA 1998 S55(3) states: "A person who contravenes subsection (1) is guilty of an offence."

The employer was well within the DPA to disclose the OP's personal data to the police and courts, but are bang out of order in disclosing it to a private company without the OP's consent.

Play them at their own game.