Agency Relationship PPI Complaints Help

[Bazza]

Hi,

Maybe some experts on here could kindly advise how an unbroken chain of agency can be established between Broker (now not trading) / Lender and Underwriters ?

Has anyone experienced anything similar and if so what evidence was provided ?

Any help or direction would be very much appreciated.

Thanks

[L'pool64]

Re: Agency Relationship PPI Complaints Help

Hi Bazza,

you our will know from reading my posts that this is a particular hobby horse of mine. For what it is worth, follow the money trail.

See a previous post below,
Start.

When we refer to relationships between companies, underwriters etc, no one mentions ongoing re numeration.
To explain what I mean,
To enable one company to place business with another, take for example GE Capitol and Genworth, an agreement would have had to be drawn up. This would have stated how much business one company would have expected to place with the other and the likely re numeration that could be expected. No company places business with another, without a perceived financial advantage. Even the various Lloyds syndicates would have expected to make money/profit of some sort. So if we assume that everybody got paid when a PPI policy was sold, is this not enough to say that this payment constitutes a "relationship"?
End

if you think that this route is worth persuing, then you need evidence that the company paid the broker for placing the business. I don't know if the business will admit/confirm to you that the broker was paid for placing PPI. Then having established that it is the same with the company/underwriter. Maybe a letter,

"can you confirm that you had a financial relation with xxxx, for placing of loans and ppi business?"

This is approach seems fairly non threatening and there doesn't seem to be anything too personal in it!! You can obviously expand etc........

The other route suggested by "Fred" is that you phone the FOS to see if they have details of any relationships for the companies you are dealing with recorded.

From a personal point of view, do not be put off by any refusal..... If you don't get the help you need, write via the CEO. The thing that is becoming more obvious to me as we wade through this mess called ppi, is that our stamina is our best ally!!!!!

hope this helps!!!!!!!

Good luck

:beagle:

[Victoria27]

Re: Agency Relationship PPI Complaints Help

My dear L'pool, you are right 100%.
Stamina, indeed, is our best ally.

Bazza, I do not know about your particular case

Having in mind what I learnt so far, my feeling is, that before your go via agency relationship route, unless it is already a proved relationship like, for instance, Santander-Genworth, please consider trying everything else, for instance, writing to the CEO of the company. Those relationships are not an easy thing to prove.
Our L'pool and Di are our fabulous experts on that.

V

[Bazza]

Re: Agency Relationship PPI Complaints Help

My dear L'pool, you are right 100%.
Stamina, indeed, is our best ally.

Bazza, I do not know about your particular case

Having in mind what I learnt so far, my feeling is, that before your go via agency relationship route, unless it is already a proved relationship like, for instance, Santander-Genworth, please consider trying everything else, for instance, writing to the CEO of the company. Those relationships are not an easy thing to prove.
Our L'pool and Di are our fabulous experts on that.

V

Many thanks L'pool and Victoria for your comments, much appreciated as always.

Victoria please see below link to my case.

http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...ht=#post461789

It's just become a rather frustrating case and do not want to give up on this one just yet. FOS adjudicator has basically rejected my complaint on the basis that no relationship can be proven between Dial4ALoan and Welcome or Underwriters Aviva.

I have attached a copy of their letter on above thread and I have until 15th September to respond with any further evidence otherwise I will then have to have it referred to the Ombudsman. It just seems that FOS are looking to wrap this one up and be done with end of story.

I have encountered failed SAR's from both Welcome and Dial4ALoan, lack of information provided and now suddenly details appearing from the closet shall we say ie a so called conversation with Dial4ALoan and my OH re application of loan. This was never previously advised or provided per my earlier Subject Access Request's to both parties. When I asked FOS for details, they couldn't clarify who they spoke to at Welcome or when the call took place ?????

They just told me to contact them myself, in which I have done so in writing requesting details of the conversation

Anyway if you have time have a look at my thread and see what you think. Do I contact Welcome and Underwriter Aviva asking for confirmation of agency relationship and if so is there a copy of appropriate worded letter anywhere does anyone know ? I am sure they will say no. I do have commission and payment of brokerage ppi details between Dial4ALoan and Welcome, is this not enough to prove a relationship ?

I had originally asked Welcome a similar question before about themselves and Dial4ALoan / Dial4ALoan Ltd and they admitted that they worked closely together. So I done some research recently and it transpires that Welcome Finance use to use the trading name Dial4ALoan under licence from another separate firm Dial4ALoan Ltd, who are still trading ????

I do also have a separate complaint with FOS regarding the Underwriters, after having my direct complaint rejected that they were not responsible for the miss-selling of the PPI. FOS have also again rejected the complaint on the same basis that no relationship can be proven.

So hence my frustration with this claim but I am still determined to keep fighting this one if I still have a chance and any further input would be so much appreciated. I have also attached a copy of the PPI Policy sent by Welcome after various requests - I see that Cattles is quoted as arranging the Insurance and policy issued by Norwich Union / Aviva.

Cheers

Bazza

[Bazza]

Re: Agency Relationship PPI Complaints Help

Could someone kindly assist in checking details from Companies House regarding Company Nos: 133540 and 03958533, thank-you.

[Kati]

Re: Agency Relationship PPI Complaints Help

133540 look to be Welcome Financial services ltd
welcome Finance
Mere way
ruddington fields business park
ruddington
nottingham
ng11 6nz

company number 00133540

Date of incorporation 23-1-1914

Country of origin UK

[Kati]

Re: Agency Relationship PPI Complaints Help

02958533 are Dial4aloan ltd

C/o welcome finance

address as above

date of incorporation 28-3-2000

Country of origin UK

[L'pool64]

Re: Agency Relationship PPI Complaints Help

Hi Bazza,

i didn't realise that you had an ongoing case....apologies and thanks Victoria! However, I have googled various combinations of ppi/Aviva etc tonight and, have found the thread below.

http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...s-underwriter/

Now from reading this thread, it does appear that FOS have established that a relationship does exist........? See what you think. If FOS accept it for one relationship, that surely sets a precedent?

i have also read of two cases, one on another forum and one on Legal Beagles whereby the customer went directly to Aviva/Norwich Union, as underwriter, one using Our amazing Di's letter. Both people had their claims accepted. I don't know if you have already tried that route.

maybe you could speak to the FOS re these options?

Anyway, best of luck and hope this helps.

:beagle: Xxxxxx

[Bazza]

Re: Agency Relationship PPI Complaints Help

Many thanks Kati,

So therefore they are one of the same and would this confirm that there is a relationship do you think ? I have attached a copy of a letter with headed paper showing both parties re my agreement details.

Further to my Subject Access Requests from Dial4ALoan and Welcome, I do have internal commission / Brokerage payment sheets between both parties.

Basically the loan was sold by Dial4ALoan who were not regulated in November 2003 and the the lender was Welcome (who were GISC regulated) who also added the single premium PPI to their agreement.

Norwich Union / Aviva (who were also regulated) are the Underwriters and policy was administered by Direct Group.

I am trying to draft up a response to the adjudicator to somehow prove that all parties are linked or their is a relationship between Broker / Lender in order to hold Welcome responsible for the miss-selling.

Any further advice would be appreciated, i.e. should I be sending further letters requesting confirmation of relationships ?

Thank-you again

[Bazza]

Re: Agency Relationship PPI Complaints Help

Hi Bazza,

i didn't realise that you had an ongoing case....apologies and thanks Victoria! However, I have googled various combinations of ppi/Aviva etc tonight and, have found the thread below.

http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...s-underwriter/

Now from reading this thread, it does appear that FOS have established that a relationship does exist........? See what you think. If FOS accept it for one relationship, that surely sets a precedent?

i have also read of two cases, one on another forum and one on Legal Beagles whereby the customer went directly to Aviva/Norwich Union, as underwriter, one using Our amazing Di's letter. Both people had their claims accepted. I don't know if you have already tried that route.

maybe you could speak to the FOS re these options?

Anyway, best of luck and hope this helps.

:beagle: Xxxxxx

Thanks L'pool,

Yes I did read those threads and I have also contacted FOS regarding the Underwriter avenue in which I also have a separate complaint pending.

I did contact Underwriters direct but they rejected my claim saying that they were not responsible for the sale and as Welcome Finance were regulated that it is them I should be contacting ?

All details were forwarded to FOS adjudicator but as my response letter states, they have rejected Underwriter option as there is no agency chain between all parties especially between broker and lender. They also state that the broker was acting on my behalf and not on Welcome's ?

Am I missing something or is there anything else that I can do to possibly try and confirm the relationships ?

It just seems that the adjudicator is basically ignoring numerous evidence in which I have provided to substantiate this, well at least a relationship between Welcome and Dial4ALoan.

So any further advice would be appreciated as I have until 15th September to provide further evidence and respond to FOS adjudicators findings.

[Kati]

Re: Agency Relationship PPI Complaints Help

Just to add to my posts last night (I was on my phone so couldn't link)

company number 00133540 http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk//compdetails

Name & Registered Office: WELCOME FINANCIAL SERVICES LIMITED WELCOME FINANCE MERE WAY, RUDDINGTON FIELDS BUSINESS PARK RUDDINGTON NOTTINGHAM NG11 6NZ Company No. 00133540

Status: Active Date of Incorporation: 23/01/1914 Country of Origin: United Kingdom Company Type: Private Limited Company Nature of Business (SIC): 64921 - Credit granting by non-deposit taking finance houses and other specialist consumer credit grantors Accounting Reference Date: 31/12 Last Accounts Made Up To: 31/12/2013 (FULL) Next Accounts Due: 30/09/2015 Last Return Made Up To: 24/05/2014 Next Return Due: 21/06/2015 Mortgage: Number of charges: 15 ( 13 outstanding / 2 satisfied / 0 part satisfied ) Last Members List: 24/05/2014 Previous Names: 01/12/2006 PROGRESSIVE FINANCIAL SERVICES LIMITED 23/12/2002 TELEPLAN RENTALS LIMITED 27/10/1987 REFUGE SUPPLY COMPANY LIMITED

[Kati]

Re: Agency Relationship PPI Complaints Help

and company number 03958533 http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk//compdetails

Name & Registered Office: DIAL4ALOAN LIMITED c/o WELCOME FINANCIAL SERVICES LIMITED WELCOME FINANCE MERE WAY, RUDDINGTON FIELDS BUSINESS PARK RUDDINGTON NOTTINGHAM NG11 6NZ Company No. 03958533

Status: Active Date of Incorporation: 28/03/2000 Country of Origin: United Kingdom Company Type: Private Limited Company Nature of Business (SIC): 64999 - Financial intermediation not elsewhere classified Accounting Reference Date: 31/12 Last Accounts Made Up To: 31/12/2012 (FULL) Next Accounts Due: 30/09/2014 Last Return Made Up To: 28/03/2014 Next Return Due: 25/04/2015 Mortgage: Number of charges: 1 ( 0 outstanding / 1 satisfied / 0 part satisfied ) Last Members List: 28/03/2014 Previous Names: No previous name information has been recorded over the last 20 years. both found on here: http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk//w...essCompanyInfo

[Bazza]

Re: Agency Relationship PPI Complaints Help

and company number 03958533 http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk//compdetails

Name & Registered Office: DIAL4ALOAN LIMITED c/o WELCOME FINANCIAL SERVICES LIMITED WELCOME FINANCE MERE WAY, RUDDINGTON FIELDS BUSINESS PARK RUDDINGTON NOTTINGHAM NG11 6NZ Company No. 03958533

Status: Active Date of Incorporation: 28/03/2000 Country of Origin: United Kingdom Company Type: Private Limited Company Nature of Business (SIC): 64999 - Financial intermediation not elsewhere classified Accounting Reference Date: 31/12 Last Accounts Made Up To: 31/12/2012 (FULL) Next Accounts Due: 30/09/2014 Last Return Made Up To: 28/03/2014 Next Return Due: 25/04/2015 Mortgage: Number of charges: 1 ( 0 outstanding / 1 satisfied / 0 part satisfied ) Last Members List: 28/03/2014 Previous Names: No previous name information has been recorded over the last 20 years. both found on here: http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk//w...essCompanyInfo

Many thanks again Kati for the information.

I would very much appreciate some expert opinion regarding the letter attached and as to what I can possibly do next in order to reply in a concise manner.

I am willing to forward whatever details are required whether via forum or PM that maybe would assist.

The amount in question is quite considerable to me and my family and I do not want to give-up without a fight as my dispute has been ongoing for nearly two years now.

I have been doing various research from various sites and did find a similar case with Endeavour / Hamilton that our delightful Di in which was eventually successful. The only difference being with mine is that the actual lender Welcome Finance were GISC regulated at the time of sale.

In the meantime, I will contact the FOS adjudicator requesting a possible extension in order to write to whoever to attempt to obtain any further evidence to argue my case.

I do appreciate that everyone is busy but any input is always very much appreciated.

Thank-you

Bazza

[Bazza]

Re: Agency Relationship PPI Complaints Help

Sorry and further to the above please see attached information submitted with FOS letter.

Thanks

[Bazza]

Re: Agency Relationship PPI Complaints Help

And finally the following attachments.