PPI Refund Question - Please Help

[wallsm015]

Hi all.

I am currently in the process of trying to claim back a PPI refund from Britannia Building society which was a joint policy for myself and my wife covering redundancy, accident and sickness, which we took out in 1999 until 2005 with our mortgage. We cancelled the policy in 2005 when we realised how expensive it was and how much cheaper it was elsewhere.

I had a pre-existing medical condition (I have been asthmatic and on medication since at least 1980) at the time of taking out the policy. We were never informed that pre-existing medical conditions were excluded and would render the policy invalid. This was never discussed. As the policy was free for the first year, we were not really offered much information at all at the time of sale of the policy.

The only questions in the application questionnaire, with regard to medical history, that we had to answer when we filled in the application were:

Are you in good health, and

Have you visited a doctor in the last 12 months for anything other than minor conditions.

We both answered correctly 'NO' to both of these questions as we were in good health at the time and hadn't visited a doctor for anything other than minor conditions.

We have just been offered a full refund of all premiums plus interest from the Nationwide for the same issue (I sent pretty much identical letters to both Britannia and Nationwide as both policies were sold in the same manner, i.e free for the first year with very little information given).

I have just had to send a doctors letter to Nationwide confirming that I do suffer from asthma and have long periods of good health, proving I could have been in good health at the time of the application, and they will then process our refund.

Originally, the Britannia replied refusing a refund. I responded to this rejection letter by sending them the doctors letter that I sent to Nationwide and a copy of Nationwide's refund offer letter, as further evidence to back up my claim.

They have responded to this letter saying that they will refund the Illness part of my part of the policy only, if I send them a doctors letter listing all prescriptions and doctors appointments that I had during the duration of the policy (199-2005!!), to prove that I did have asthma and how bad it was.

As Britannia are now offering to pay back part of the policy premiums plus interest once I prove what they have asked, they are now in effect admitting the policy was mis-sold to myself and my wife.

My question, which I hope someone can answer is:

As the policy was a joint policy for myself and my wife, shouldn't they refund the entire policy payments plus interest, not just my illness portion of the premiums, if they are now admitting that the policy was mis-sold?

Surely, if a joint policy was mis-sold, it was mis-sold in its entirety, not just part of it?

If they had told me that the policy was not suitable for me due to my asthma, neither my wife or myself wouldn't have taken the policy with them. We would have looked at other options which were suitable for our needs.

I would be extremely grateful if somebody could offer me some advice.

I am quite willing to go to the Ombudsman, but would obviously like the best chance of success prior to doing that, and dont really want to wait 2 years to get my money back.

Thanks in advance.

[di30]

Re: PPI Refund Question - Please Help

Hi and welcome

I believe your right in my opinion, at the end of the day you had a pre-med condition and could not have made a successful claim.

May I also ask if your wife was employed when the cover was sold to you? If not they would not have paid out for your wife either if you were to make a claim for unemployment/sickness etc.
If you were also employed, its possible the employer may have paid out for eg, 6 months to a year for sickness etc, but if the policy was no discussed with you (you were not to know) or given the opportunity to have your say.

I would write/email the CEO (Manager) and raise your concerns of the part refund offer, as they have admitted to the miselling with the reasons applied, and you want this reviewed by 14 days or will consider taking further action.

Hope this helps, let us know how you get on, good luck.

[wallsm015]

Re: PPI Refund Question - Please Help

Hi there,

Thanks for your reply.

In answer to your question, my wife and I were both in full time employment and always have been. We were both employed by large companies where we would both get up to 6 months full pay if we were ever ill.

Can I please clarify what you meant regarding my wife's employment?

Are you saying that if my wife was employed at the time of the policy (which she was) and she was ill or made redundant, she wouldn't have been able to claim on the policy either due to me having a pre-existing medical condition, as this would have rendered the whole policy invalid??

Obviously if this is the case it really strengthens my case for getting a full refund of all premiums plus interest, not just my illness part.

This could be the difference between getting a refund of approximately £1500 or £6000!! We were paying approximately £50 a month for 5 years.

Thanks again

[di30]

Re: PPI Refund Question - Please Help

Hi there

Sorry, what I meant was if the policy of the ppi only protected yourself, it would be classed as a single policy and not joint (for the ppi alone), so if your wife was to make a claim for unemployment/sickness it would be unlikely they would have paid out if her name was not added for the insurance (However, every bank/business could vary) so always worth checking the terms and conds of the ppi policy.

And yes if your wife was included on the policy (when it was sold to you) where she had a pre-med condition they would not pay out for that particular illness.

[wallsm015]

Re: PPI Refund Question - Please Help

Hi,

The policy was definitely a joint policy, both names are on the policy. Benefites were split 50:50.

If my wife had claimed for redundacy or sickness (which she never did), could any claim by her have been affected by me having a pre-existing medical condition?

What I'm getting at is would the whole policy have been invalid and useless, even for claims by my wife, due to me having a pre-existing medical condition. I think it would be as insurance companies would find any excuse of wriggling out of paying out!!

If that is the case and she wouldn't have been able to claim either, the policy was totally useless to both of us, and therefore, we should get a refund of all premiums paid over 5-6 years plus interest.

Thanks in advance for the help!!

[di30]

Re: PPI Refund Question - Please Help

I would check your policy as well, but I know if the actual person who was insured made a claim for a particular illness and that illness was existing at the time the policy was sold to you, they would not pay out on that illness (however if you had another illness after the policy was sold to you (not then existing when the policy was sold to you) they "should" pay out.
Do check for exclusions as they can differ from one to the next from one business to another.

[wallsm015]

Re: PPI Refund Question - Please Help

Hi again.

After supplying another doctors letter to Britannia to support the fact that I had asthma but was in good health at the point of taking out their ppi, I have had a very pleasant reply, again rejecting our claim, but offering a refund of my sickness premiums (£750) with no interest as a good will gesture!!

As I told them I had got a successful outcome (full refund of all premiums plus interest) from nationwide for them selling myself and my wife a joint accident, sickness and redundancy policy when I had a pre existing medical condition (in exactly the same fashion as Britannia sold us their policy), they have come back with a 5 page letters which includes the following gems:

"The refund you received from the nationwide, does suggest that you have a propensity not to declare such relevant information to financial services providers'. So basically they are saying I deliberately didn't tell them about my asthma when I took the policy out in 1999, with a view to claiming for mis-selling 10 years later!! Unbelievable!! They are basically saying I misled them and the nationwide on purpose!! So angry!!

They are also saying that their accident/sickness and redundancy policies are separate policies, which is utter nonsense. We took put a joint policy, with one application form, have one policy number, and one policy booklet that covers accident, sickness and redundancy. And paid one premium.

They also say in their rejection letter that 'some policies are combined policies, come as a package and can't be separated. In these cases if one element of the cover is unsuitable, the entire policy is unsuitable, therefore a full refund would be offered'.

Conveniently 'their policy doesn't operate that way and can be broken into its component parts. These components can be and were sold separately'. I re-cap, one application form, one policy booklet, one policy number, one premium. Am I missing something??

i am claiming a full refund for all premiums paid by my wife and myself over 10 years plus 8% interest, due to the fact that the joint policy (for myself and my wife) for combined accident/sickness and unemployment cover which was sold to us when one of us (me) had a pre-existing medical condition (asthma) which was well under control at the time of the application and all health related questions had been answered accurately and honestly at the time of the application (see previous posts for the 2 health related questions that were asked!!). If I had been asked if I had a pre existing medical condition, I would have replied 'yes'!!!

I am definitely forwarding this complaint to the FOS, but would welcome comments on the fact that 'I have a propensity for not disclosing full facts to financial providers', and that their policy can be split into components when they feel like it!!

i think I have a cast iron case to take to the ombudsman, and I'm pretty sure that the FOS will take a dim view of the accusations directed at me. i estimate the total claim to be approx £10,000 (10 years premiums at an average of £40 a month including interest).

I also take pleasure in the fact that if I go to the ombudsman Britannia will have to pay them £950, more than what they are offering me in settlement, to investigate my claim!!

Comments please!!!!

[di30]

Re: PPI Refund Question - Please Help

Hi there
You could try the Chief Executive officer (CEO first) give them 14 days, then move on to the FOS from there if nothing heard or changed.
I know exactly what you are saying, and do raise this up as you have done here with the CEO, hopefully he/she will get his complaints team to change to a full refund.

I note you said that the loan policy was joint, did the cover also protect for you both or just the first applicant of the loan?
If just you for the ppi, then I would also have something to say about that as well, because its not fair that your wife would not be eligible to make a claim on the loan for sickness and unemployment etc, and if the unfortunate were to happen, she would be left with a loan to pay with the ppi that never covered her in the first place (So if this does apply to you, do raise this too).

I can try to find the CEO details for you if you wish, let me know thanks and good luck x

[di30]

Re: PPI Refund Question - Please Help

.........as said in my post just now, about the CEO, as Brittania are grouped with the Co Op, the CEO email address is here:
niall.booker@cfs.coop

[wallsm015]

Re: PPI Refund Question - Please Help

Hi there,

thanks so much for the CEO's email. I will email him tomorrow. I imagine that his emails will be screened so I don't hold much hope that it will actually get through to him, but it's worth a try!!

i don't think he'll take kindly to his staff basically saying I have deliberately misled them, ie basically libelling me by calling me an habitual liar!!

i will keep you informed. Thanks again!

[wallsm015]

Re: PPI Refund Question - Please Help

Apologies for not answering you question.

the policy covered both of us for accident sickness and unemployment, hence why I want a total refund. We wouldn't have taken the policy at all if they said my asthma wasn't covered. The minimum I would accept is a refund of half the premiums plus interest ;to caver the amount I paid for sickness and unemployment cover), but really think we should get my wife's share back too as the policy was sold as a joint policy

[di30]

Re: PPI Refund Question - Please Help

Totally agree.

Hopefully the CEO will be a lenient one, they cannot afford to fail on anything now, so with a bit of luck this will be turned around in your favour. Good luck!

What normally happens is, the CEO will forward to one of his team, but will take note of the details of your email, he may possibly agree with you and inform his staff to put this right, I do hope so, fingers crossed.:tinysmile_twink_t2:

[wallsm015]

Re: PPI Refund Question - Please Help

Hi,

I emailed the CEO of Co-op banking this morning and he replied personally within 15 minutes to confirm that he had received my email and is sorry that I feel that my complaint hasn't been handled satisfactorily.

He has asked his colleagues to 'look into this as a matter of urgency' and they will revert directly bck to me once they have reviewed it.

He said that they take all customer complaints seriously and thanked me for bringing it to his attention.

The people he copied in on the email are Head of Payment Services, PA to the CEO, Head of Customer Relations, Deputy CEO and the Commercial Director (I googled the names!!). Hopefully it will get sorted out to my satisfaction ie a full refund and interest for the full premiums for both my wife and I.

I included a fairly detailed breakdown of the issue so that he had a rough idea of what had gone on and what my complaint was about, including the comments that I was basically a liar, provided false information, obtained insurance by deception, and because I had a successful claim with the Nationwide 'that indicated that I had a propensity for deliberately not giving full and honest information when applying for products from financial service providers'!!.

I'm still so mad about those comments!!

Hopefully this will be resolved to my satisfaction shortly.

I will keep you informed of the progress.

[di30]

Re: PPI Refund Question - Please Help

Thank you for your update and glad to hear of the quick response.

My experience with Co Op emailing various sections and the CEO of their various depts, i have to say have all come back very quickly.

All crossed here for you!

[wallsm015]

Re: PPI Refund Question - Please Help

Update. Success!! Got an email from PPI director of Co-op saying they have investigated and uphold my complaint.

Apologise for inconvenience and stress caused by the way my claim was handled and for the insults and accusations in their letter.

They are calculating my recompense and will send me details of the exact amount. From the sound of the letter this could mean compensation on top of the 8% interest.

Proves writing ing to the CEO does work.

will update further next week.