PPI Claim ongoing with HSBC

**Bill-K** · 30th July 2013, 23:17:PM

Re: PPI Claim ongoing with HSBC

Originally posted by slinky252 View Post

Is there also a decent compound interest and 8%simple credit card calculator available so i can send them a spreadsheet of my findings, using an average spend for the statements i am missing?

Hi, and welcome Slinky. There is a 'tutorial' on PPI calculations by my colleague Turboman here - and some spreadsheets that I think should do the job:-

http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...I-Calculations

**slinky252** · 6th August 2013, 10:05:AM

Re: PPI Claim ongoing with HSBC

Thanks Bill,

I dont know what to think of hsbc's offer on the loan, i have no agreement in my posession, and you will read in previous post, i only had sar data to 2006. I am awaiting for them to confirm the amount of ppi rebate at the point the loan was settled.

They offered
APR 13.9%
Amount of loan facility £5600
Loan term 60 months
PPI Paid 53 %
Monthly premium excluding ppi £128.00
Payment protection payable £1172.0
Monthly premium including ppi £154.00
Total ppi cost £849.00
Protection start date october 2000
Protection cancellation date may 2002
Calculation date june 2013

PPI REDRESS £872.83
Plus taxable interest

at 8% £790.74

Total £1663.57

i know i need to get onto your calculators and without the rebate figure will i not get an accurate picture of the award?

Also Just wondered what you guys thought of the offer in question, all i had in my possesion was a bank statement luckily which had the folllowing info on in October 2000

Total loan ammount £6770.00
Loan protection taken out straight after loan put into acount £1171.93

Thanks guys

**Bill-K** · 6th August 2013, 21:25:PM

Re: PPI Claim ongoing with HSBC

I didn't answer your earlier question about where HSBC got their data, if they didn't send it with your DSAR data. All the lenders now seem to insist that they only keep data going back 6 years, and it is difficult to prove otherwise. I think it is always worth putting them on the spot about this when the opportunity arises - and you seem to have been given this opportunity. Your suspicions about the credit card data seem well-founded to me !!! I agree that you should ask them exactly what data they relied upon to calculate your offer, and remind them that the FSA/FCA rules stipulate that they must provide you with a proper explanation of how they have calculated their offer. Otherwise, you are not in any position to make an informed decision on whether to accept or refuse their offer. The relevant rule is DISP APP 3.9.4 which states:
" The firm should make any offer of redress to the complainant in a fair and balanced way. In particular, the firm should explain clearly to the complainant the basis for the redress offered including how any compensation is calculated and, where relevant, the rescheduling of the loan, and the consequences of accepting the offer of redress."

Either they have more data than they sent you, or they have drawn up an estimation. I think you have every right to know which. Using your figures, Slinky, you appear to have made 20 monthly repayments of £154.00, of which 17.3066% was attributable to PPI, and this comes to £533.00. If the PPI was cancelled, and the loan then re-scheduled, then no PPI rebate would normally be made, but the remaining monthly repayments should have been reduced by approx. £26.65 p/m. HBOS appear to have offered £872.83, which is over 60% more than my calculation.

Calculating the 8% compensatory interest on these 20 PPI repayments, I get £514.38 up to today's date, but HBOS appear to have offered £790.74, which is over 50% more than my calculation.

So - either my calcs are wrong or theirs are. My personal recommendation would be to literally 'take the money and run,' but you may want to double-check your own data first. If I add an extra 12 repayments, then I get figures which roughly agree with the HBOS offer - are you sure of the PPI start and stop dates, and that only 20 PPI repayments were made ?

**slinky252** · 6th August 2013, 22:15:PM

Re: PPI Claim ongoing with HSBC

Thanks Bill, and very informative cheers.

I never cancelled the ppi myself and i think the loan was paid off with another loan or mortgage i cant quite remember. Would that make much difference, thats why i have asked for the amount off ppi rebate at the point the loan was settled with them.

i guess what im asking is if the loan is settled on a front loaded ppi loan surely there is a rebate on the ppi front loaded amount they accounted for.and any settlement figure must include part of that or is this not the case. Apologies if i am not making myself clear on this.

I will however get my statements out and see if i can track anything down, dont think i have that though.

**Bill-K** · 7th August 2013, 01:38:AM

Re: PPI Claim ongoing with HSBC

If you have your statements, then please do get them out, Slinky. I have been working on the info that you have posted, but I think you really need to work on this more yourself. I got a very stiff talking to from a copper when I was a kid, because I had been caught making a 'spoof' 999 call about a fire. I'm not saying you are doing this, mate - but we only have so much time to help peeps, and we don't get paid.

You need to read up and make the effort, and we will match your effort if we can. I hope I have matched yours so far.

**slinky252** · 12th August 2013, 10:02:AM

Re: PPI Claim ongoing with HSBC

Thanks Bill will make every effort and i should hope im not making spoof 999 calls when my job is a firefighter

**slinky252** · 23rd August 2013, 11:03:AM

Re: PPI Claim ongoing with HSBC

Help Please,

Its Getting ridiculous now and HSBC are showing so much incompetence in dealing with my complaint. They are still not answering questions on recorded delivery letters, one being the ppi rebate at which the point was settled? Taking ages for that answer even though they have sent me an offer.

But this is quite interesting, and what's funny is im now quite enjoying this battle with HSBC. Just wondered your thoughts on this situation, They have sent me a letter regarding the credit card complaint a final response they say. The letter states that after reviewing the records they hold they are unable to support my complaint.And the reason is this, there records show that in July 2000, i applied for an optional Cardholder Repayment Protector to protect my HSBC Credit card, the policy is designed to repay 10% of the outstanding credit card balance for a maximum of 12 months in the event of sickness accident or redundancy.Life cover is also included in the plan. At the time i purchased the protection it was Hsbc's process to provide you with a policy document, which explained how the policy worked together with the claims procedure and the exclusions that applied .I then had a cancellation period, which gave you the opportunity to review all the above documentation and the right to change my mind. Regrettably, due to passing of time, the original documentation has not been located. However i can confirm that it is not bank procedure to issue insurance without the appropriate documentation being completed. I would also point out that premiums paid in respect of the plan have appeared on your statements where there has been an outstanding balance. throughout the period your policy has been in force we have no record of you contacting HSBC to query the insurance or advising that you consider the plan was mis sold.

This made me quite angry, so i went back to my statements and pulled out statements for May, June and July 2000 for the credit card and there it is Card Repayment Protector, Firstly i dont ever remember taking out said policy and secondly why would i take our a optional cardholder repayment protector when a there is already cardholder repayment protector already on statements previous to JULY 2000 which started in 1995.

I do notice however that there is a balance transfer from one card to another in the July statement so is this where they have got me, they have upheld my loan because i am a firefighter and my job covers me a lot better than any ppi cover can, so this is the same is it not? and therefore mis sold? and i have never had life cover with hsbc?

I am now that fed up i am considering court action due to there unproffesionalism and considering leaving fos out of this and taking them to court myself. if i do this what steps do i need to do first. This case is now littered with incompetence on the part of HSBC.

Thank you for any assistance guys.

**Bill-K** · 23rd August 2013, 21:35:PM

Re: PPI Claim ongoing with HSBC

FWIW, here are my own thoughts on this, Slinky. If you take this matter to court as a LIP, then you will need to understand what you are doing. The alternative would of course be to hire a lawyer, and this will cost money. If you lose - and PPI claims are certainly NOT guaranteed to win in court - then you will still have to pay your lawyer. In the Small Claims Court, you may still find yourself having to pay some or all of the other side's costs - contrary to popular belief.

My own personal recommendation is to try your best to convince HSBC that they are incompetent, and if that fails, refer the matter to the FOS. It is good to see that you are getting some enjoyment from this battle, because it can become all too stressful and frustrating. Patience and determination are keys to this.

**slinky252** · 30th August 2013, 23:38:PM

Re: PPI Claim ongoing with HSBC

Thanks Bill, i will take your good advice !!

**slinky252** · 17th November 2013, 22:59:PM

Re: PPI Claim ongoing with HSBC

Hi guys,

So i am somewhere near a full victory with HSBC or am i?

I honestly cant believe the way i have been treated by the bank. I know im not the first and certainly wont be the last, but i so feel like going with my story to the press or getting legal with them, and telling the world, how corrupt, incompetant and unproffesional they have been throughout my case against mis-sold ppi.

So ill start here and you tell me what you all think. I am still not finished with HSBC, Not fully but nearly there.

But i have to get this off my chest.

Ok a little about my situ, full time Firefighter, over the years got into some debt and nearly entered into a IVA but in the end i pulled out Without signing anything and started a debt management plan instead. Looked into my ppi situation and came across Midland Bank and HSBC ppi on a credit card dating back to 1997 and a front loaded ppi loan from 2000.

42 weeks ago i embarked on my mission to get my ppi back and sent a letter to hsbc last year requesting it back because i feel i had been mis-sold ppi.

They sent me a fos questionaire which i did not fill in.

I recieved a letter back from them saying they would not be looking into my complaint because i was on an iva and considered this final and to seek advice from my IVA people.

News to me!!!! i have never been on an IVA. So i went to insolvency service and there it was, me on an IVA, i could not believe it because i never entered one, so got that revoked and a nice letter of apology from company who incorrectly put me on an iva.

I then forwarded this to HSBC Basically telling them of their incorrect data, so now give me my money back.

I sent them copies of credit card statements random earliest being june 1997 and 5 more for different years all stated cardholder payment protection, a copy of a current account statement for october 2000 with front loaded ppi and copies of insolvency service revoked iva and letter from iva company apologising for there error and a subject access request in march 2013 and a £10 postal order and off it went.

The subject access request came and the earliest info in this was 2006 and i left the bank in 2007

I got a call from there ppi department asking me questions asking why i thought i was miss sold,(i guess this was because i never filled in there fos questionaire) and then 4 weeks later i got an offer from them for the loan for about £1600 and they said they would use this money to pay off the money i owed them with metropolitan collection services which is around £2700 for an unpaid overdraft i had with them in 2007. which is currently being paid off in small amounts on my dmp.

I then asked for a full and detailed breakdown from them regarding the offer.

I got that 12 weeks later which included how many months i paid and when it was settled but no info on the amount of ppi rebate when the loan was settled.

NOW IT GETS INTERESTING

I wrote back after speaking with FOS and getting advice about them (HSBC) passing my money onto metropolitan to pay off debt. I asked, because the debt i have with them has nothing to do with the loan. FOS told me , they cannot use this money to pay off the debt. so i was correct in my assumptions and then wrote to hsbc informing them of this, and also that could you please tell me how you know how many payments i made on the loan, and this info was not in the SAR?

after some time passing they still gave me no answer re why they have this data and not given it me and that this is there final offer and thats that. oh and i still have to pay off debt with metropolitan.

I NOW SEEKED ADVICE FROM FOS , Information Commisioners office and also the FSA and i am now starting to enjoy this little battle.

I sent a letter in july asking how they have a offer when they never sent me data in the SAR. i say you cannot pay off the debt with metopolitan because its not associated and where is my credit card offer?

Astonishingly i got a letter from them containing this, here is the information you requested and it was a copy of the original letter of them telling me i was on an IVA

WTF Why would i want this.

I then recieved another letter stating that they were not upholding the credit card ppi due to me taking out the policy in 2000 and me having a booklet explaining what it was all about and that the policy had life insurance!!!

OMG it gets better not only have they not bothered to read my letters they said i took out a policy in june 2000, (nothing at all about 1995 when it started) and what it states on the statements i sent. and that i have a life insurance policy.

i sent a second letter requesting this info:

The amount of ppi rebate at the point the loan was settled
Why they know, how many payments i made and when i made them and why not included in the SAR, which by law you know you should give me all info you have on me on the data protection act 1998
What life insurance is this and i have never cancelled any life insurance with hsbc because i never knew i had it??
A copy of a statement from june 2000 with cardholder protection on this the month before they said i took out the policy lol(basically saying it was there already you numpties)
And that they cant pay off debt with loan offer due to it not being associated to the debt on the dmp

Quite inbelievable really!!

letter back from them in october with offer on credit card lol after all they have said so far.

offering to pay redress of nearly £5000 as full and final settlement which again they say will be used to pay off my debt with metropolitan
also unfortunately the loan was repaid early on the 13th May 2002 and they no longer hold the specific info about the premium refunded.
also the reason they are using this to pay off my debt is this they state DISP App 3 at 3.9.1.g which states " WHERE THE COMPLAINENT'S LOAN OR CREDIT CARD IS IN ARREARS THE FIRM MAY, IF IT HAS A CONTRACTUAL RIGHT TO DO SO, MAKE A PAYMENT TO REDUCE THE ASSOCIATED LOAN OR CREDIT CARD BALANCE " in any event HSBC considers it unfair and unreasonable to allow a customer to benefit from a "windfall" payment from the bank where that customer owes the bank a debt.

i cant quite believe what im reading and WINDFALL lol after they sold this to me fraudulently.

Spoke to fos again just confiming if i need to pay debt off with this, they said no.

So basically re sent letter again asking for answers on same thing and full and detailed breakdown of offer on credit card, and with ICO reccomendation reminding them of their obligation under data protection act and to review there initail response.

They sent back a letter on 12th november with all the premiums i have paid which they hold electronically (AGAIN NOT WITHIN THE SAR THEY SENT) and they consider because they have upheld my complaint they are not addressing any of my other issues and please accept my offer.

I am seething to say the least, they are blatent liars and just talk absolute tosh. i want to hurt them for this but how can i.

What do you guys reckon on all this

Sorry it is a long read.

**slinky252** · 27th February 2014, 19:52:PM

Re: PPI Claim ongoing with HSBC

Update,

Just had another offer from hsbc after sending them statements they missed. Letter said thank you for statements but now your offer is lower due to actual statements i have sent. so now they dont go by an average figure. 9 statements £600 quid difference lol. But here's the interesting development they said as a gesture of goodwill they will keep to the old offer figure ???????? this is very unlike them.

And the debt i have with them on the dmp is now an optional payment should i wish to make it ??? They say this is due to a recent development. Anybody no of any recent developments when it comes to having an option to use your redress to pay off debt you owe with them ????

This is a huge sway in their attitude towards my letters , im intrigued !!!

I mentioned on the phone to them 10 days ago that the information commissioner is very interested in this case !! mmmmmmm i wonder !!

**Amethyst** · 27th February 2014, 20:08:PM

Re: PPI Claim ongoing with HSBC

Possibly something to do with you being on a DMP - I can't see anything obvious changed in the FOS guidance

where the consumer has fallen into arrears on their loan or credit card

Sometimes, consumers fall behind with their debt repayments. If they miss their payments for some time, then by the time the business compensates them for the mis-selling of PPI on that debt, the consumer could have some significant arrears.

In these circumstances, businesses often want to use the compensation to remove or reduce the arrears on the account before paying any compensation that remains to the consumer. Whereas consumers usually say they should be paid the compensation so that they can decide whether to reduce the arrears on this debt – or whether to do something else with it, for example, use it to repay other debts.
our approach

What is fair and reasonable will depend on the individual circumstances of the case. But we will first tell the business to identify whether any of the consumer’s arrears relate to the addition of PPI and, if so, to write off those arrears.

We will then consider what it is fair and reasonable for the business to do with any redress left over after it has restructured the consumer’s loan. We will take into account:

the contractual position;
what the law might consider is fair; and
the consumer’s wider financial circumstances.

The regulator’s guidance to businesses handling PPI complaints says that where the consumer’s loan or credit card is in arrears, the business may use the compensation to reduce the consumer’s loan or credit card balance if it has the contractual right to do so.

Some loan and credit card contracts do include provision for this, but based on the cases we have seen, many do not. Where a contract does not include this provision, we take the view that this does not necessarily mean a business does not have the right to use some of the consumer’s compensation to deal with their arrears. In these situations, we will consider the wider legal position.

We take into account the law, which allows people to “set off” closely connected debts. This means that one person (A) can deduct from a debt that they owe another person (B), money which that person (B) owes to them (some businesses also refer to the “banker’s right of set off”, which is simply an expression of the legal right of set off – which may or may not apply depending on the circumstances).

We often decide that it is fair for the business to “set off” the compensation payable for the mis-sale of a PPI policy against the consumer’s arrears on their account – and remove or reduce those arrears. But we would not consider it fair for a business to require the consumer to reduce the balance below what would be outstanding now if the PPI had not been added.

However, if the business that sold the PPI (and is now compensating the consumer) is not the lender, none of these considerations will apply and the compensation should be paid to the consumer as normal.

There may be other circumstances where we might decide that a business should pay all of the compensation to the consumer. We might decide to do this, for example, where the consumer is able to demonstrate to us that they have arrears on other debts that are more serious or that pose a greater threat to them than the debt to which the PPI is attached. Another example might be where the consumer is able to show us that the other debts came about because they were paying the PPI on this debt.

**josh615498** · 14th January 2016, 09:18:AM

Re: PPI Claim ongoing with HSBC

Hi Slinky252

I've read this thread and find it rather interesting.

I too have recently received correspondence from HSBC with an offer of a redress of PPI on a loan I took out in 2004 but they are refusing to pay on a credit card from 2004 and loan from 2000. Interestingly they quoted me the same passage in my letter that you had in yours about the credit card PPI literally word for word. I don't have any of my statements so cannot disprove what they say about the premiums being details on them. Is there no way around this?

I wonder whether you could answer a few questions about HSBC and PPI in general?

Are you still on this forum?

Regards,
Lisa

PPI Claim ongoing with HSBC

PPI Claim ongoing with HSBC

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Announcement

Court Claim ?