Hamilton/HFC/Endeavour - Reclaim PPI

[di30]

Re: Hamilton/HFC/Endeavour - Reclaim PPI

Your Welcome it is the only way that you can find out what has been said between the FOS and the lender and it may give you insight into the adjudicators logic of thinking and the decision he came too as well as maybe throw up some evidance you have not seen.

Grab them both by the horns you have nothing to lose.

Regards

I will do PF.

Do you know where the SAR's are on here? lol, thanks.

Will come back to this tomorrow now with a clearer head, cheers.

Di
x

[pompeyfaith]

Re: Hamilton/HFC/Endeavour - Reclaim PPI

remember you want copies of letters, emails, faxes and recorings if they have them and of course the FOS may realize that you are on to them and refuse but change there decision which is ok as that is the result.

Regards
------------------------------- merged -------------------------------
you have a PM

[pompeyfaith]

Re: Hamilton/HFC/Endeavour - Reclaim PPI

Di,

Here you go just found this for you.

http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.u...-requests.html

Regards

[The_Big_Dog]

Re: Hamilton/HFC/Endeavour - Reclaim PPI

Morning Di,

Tell him we'll be in a position to reply before the 5th. I think this is all going over his head, which is a shame, because he should know what an Actual Agent Relationship is in English Law based on what he does for a living.

I've noted that HFC wouldn't disclose to the FOS whether Click was a packager, and his assertation that it was merely collecting documents on behalf of the lender even if it was a packager is total hogwash - does this guy really think that any Tom, Dick or Harry can go around requesting loan references and the lender will accept them?

First things first, I'm going to call in a couple of favours, and I'm going to try and get hold of an EPF packaging agreement - I think I know where I'll find one - once we put that under his nose, there'll be no doubt who was acting for who. It'll give it away just on the title alone, because the title of it will state 'Mortgage Packaging Agency Agreement'.

I'll be in touch over the weekend.

Regards,

TBD.

[di30]

Re: Hamilton/HFC/Endeavour - Reclaim PPI

Morning Di,

Tell him we'll be in a position to reply before the 5th. I think this is all going over his head, which is a shame, because he should know what an Actual Agent Relationship is in English Law based on what he does for a living.

I've noted that HFC wouldn't disclose to the FOS whether Click was a packager, and his assertation that it was merely collecting documents on behalf of the lender even if it was a packager is total hogwash - does this guy really think that any Tom, Dick or Harry can go around requesting loan references and the lender will accept them?

First things first, I'm going to call in a couple of favours, and I'm going to try and get hold of an EPF packaging agreement - I think I know where I'll find one - once we put that under his nose, there'll be no doubt who was acting for who. It'll give it away just on the title alone, because the title of it will state 'Mortgage Packaging Agency Agreement'.

I'll be in touch over the weekend.

Regards,

TBD.

Thanks for the link PF.

Cheers TBD

The Adjudicator may has well have sent his last (June) letter lol, despite the info and paperwork that should have been enough, but he obviously doesn't understand how it works.

That will be fab TBD if you could manage to get hold of one, much appreciated indeed.

In regards of the SAR, do you think I should request this from the FOS or HFC?
I do have an Endeavour SAR but that is a few years old now?
Or SAR both perhaps?

I shall be back later sometime, but any further help is appreciated, thank you.

Di

[The Debt Star]

Re: Hamilton/HFC/Endeavour - Reclaim PPI

TBD! Go get 'em!

Its great to have TBD on your side Di. I'm sure if you give the ombudsman enough grief they will start to take notice of the seriousness and complexity of this complaint.

[Paul210]

Re: Hamilton/HFC/Endeavour - Reclaim PPI

Hi Di,

just read the letters you posted, no real surprise there then, I think this one defo needs to be escalated!

To my mind he seems to have missed the point completely, I thought that between yourself and TBD youd managed to make a fairly straightforward case for the agency argument, I just dont think he understands what that means or the implications of it. The very fact EPF paid Click a commision (click wouldnt have worked with them if they didnt) means there was an agency relationship, irrespective of whether there was an actual introducers agency agreement in place (which EPF insisted on, I know as Ive worked for a company that brokered secured loans with them)

I think i've mentioned this before but its worth looking at Wilson v Hurstanger, not a ppi case per se but could be used in this case (the outlaw write up is quite good if you dont want to read the full judgement http://www.out-law.com/page-8928)

To quote the commentary "Significantly, the lender, who had paid the commission knowing that the broker was acting as the agent of the borrowers, was found liable as an accessory to that breach. This meant that the borrowers were entitled to claim equitable compensation directly against Hurstanger." I think this could be extended to cover commision on the ppi product, by inducing the broker to sell by way of commisions it could be argued that they induced a breach of your rights, this could be supplemented with the argument that your original quote didnt include ppi but this was added subsequently wihtout your knowledge. You then expand the argument to make EPF liable using the Hurstanger case as precedent. Once yourve argued EPF liable you replicate the same argument with Hamilton.

I think if you integrate this with TBD's already persuasive argument about agency relationships you could make a very good case.

If yourself and TBD dont mind I'd be keen to see the response you submit, also I'd be more than happy to cast a third eye over it and add any thoughts if either of you think it would be of assitance.

[di30]

Re: Hamilton/HFC/Endeavour - Reclaim PPI

Thank you for your input folks, I am as always ever so grateful.
That is also interesting Paul.

I am off to see my brother now as he's not long come out of hospital, and will be back early this afternoon.

And Paul please feel free, that is fab, cheers so much.

[The Debt Star]

Re: Hamilton/HFC/Endeavour - Reclaim PPI

Do you think you would take this to court Di, if the ombudsman doesn't deliver?

[Paul210]

Re: Hamilton/HFC/Endeavour - Reclaim PPI

Do you think you would take this to court Di, if the ombudsman doesn't deliver?

you need to be very careful with court route at moment, even with a decent case the courts seem very heavily weighted in favour of lenders, particularly where sale a long time ago and line of events not particularly clear like here, the courts tend to place very little credibility on claimants evidence. Combined with the costs issue it a risky road to take and a lot more diffuclt to get a result than via the ombudsman service (even in its current state).

[The Debt Star]

Re: Hamilton/HFC/Endeavour - Reclaim PPI

you need to be very careful with court route at moment, even with a decent case the courts seem very heavily weighted in favour of lenders, particularly where sale a long time ago and line of events not particularly clear like here, the courts tend to place very little credibility on claimants evidence. Combined with the costs issue it a risky road to take and a lot more diffuclt to get a result than via the ombudsman service (even in its current state).

All good points. Thanks.

[di30]

Re: Hamilton/HFC/Endeavour - Reclaim PPI

In your own opinion folks, who would you SAR, the FOS, Endeavour or both?

Thanks.

[di30]

Re: Hamilton/HFC/Endeavour - Reclaim PPI

Will have a nose on the info you posted as well Paul, cheers for that.

SAR in an envelope to be posted in the post office - signed delivery tomorrow (Saturday), to the FOS of course lol, it should be interesting.

[di30]

Re: Hamilton/HFC/Endeavour - Reclaim PPI

Oops, thanks as well PF, this is a great idea and I am actually getting excited on the thought of receiving the data lol, strange for me to feel this way I know but it will be very interesting. x

[pompeyfaith]

Re: Hamilton/HFC/Endeavour - Reclaim PPI

Di,

It will indeed, but remember they may try to not disclose everything to you, however we will cross that bridge should it ever arise.