Hamilton/HFC/Endeavour - Reclaim PPI

[pompeyfaith]

Re: Hamilton/HFC/Endeavour - Reclaim PPI

Di,

Do you have an address for click finance?
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No will not be a new claim as it is still open until the 16th providing you can respond by then it will progress.

Yes all the docs the FOS have will be recorded on pc aswell as a file of your docs and that will be forwarded upstairs to the ombudsmans offices

[di30]

Re: Hamilton/HFC/Endeavour - Reclaim PPI

Di,

Do you have an address for click finance?

The Click Finance we taken out the loan with, address below, but they do still have other loan businesses with the same manager director but would not take any responsibility on the loan ppi complaint either, they still say its a separate company to the ones now.

Click Finance
Victoria House
23-27 Farnham
Surrey
GU9 7QU.

[pompeyfaith]

Re: Hamilton/HFC/Endeavour - Reclaim PPI

nothing on companies house for them, no matter as they are desolved anyway HFC are the ones we want who are connected to Endeavor

[di30]

Re: Hamilton/HFC/Endeavour - Reclaim PPI

nothing on companies house for them, no matter as they are desolved anyway HFC are the ones we want who are connected to Endeavor

Exactly PF, and I am so grateful for all your time and support in this matter, its been doing my head in lol.

I have just left you a pm as well.

I will come back to this tomorrow and call it a night now, but a Big thanks again PF, you've been fab x Night night.

[pompeyfaith]

Re: Hamilton/HFC/Endeavour - Reclaim PPI

Would you like to review this thread again tomorrow and prepare a letter for you to the adjudicator.

Getting well into this conundrum now lol

[di30]

Re: Hamilton/HFC/Endeavour - Reclaim PPI

Would you like to review this thread again tomorrow and prepar a letter fot you to the adjudicator.

Getting well into this conundrum now lol

That will be fab PF thank you so much I am so grateful.
A letter will be great, will come back to this tomorrow then, cheers x

[pompeyfaith]

Re: Hamilton/HFC/Endeavour - Reclaim PPI

Your Welcome

Take Care

[Paul210]

Re: Hamilton/HFC/Endeavour - Reclaim PPI

Di, PF,

Endeavour ("EPF") were the lender, they are a subsidiarry of HSBC, HFC are also a subsidiary of HSBC and both have their registered office at the same addredd (The Parade,
Birmingham).

the call from HFC is known in broker circles as a "speak with", this is basically a security check by the lender prior to releasing funds. Its not inconceivable that HFC security dept staff may have also worked on EPF loans, hence the confusion and the fact the speak with sheet (which you have a copy of) is headed with both logo's. To my mind the lender is EPF not HFC altough the close relatrionship between the 2 does muddy the waters somewhat.

Have FOS contacted EPF to ask who brokered the loan (or do you have a letter from them stating this)?, if so that is the proof of an agency between the two, EPF would not accept loans from brokers who were not under agency (I know as I used to work for a broker who used them)

With regard to the terms and conditions, (quote) "I say this because Click acted as a Credit Broker when arranging the loan and Payment Protection Insurance (PPI) for you. In the terms & conditons of your Endeavour Credit Agreement, a copy of which I enclose, it specifically states that Credit Brokers used during the transaction are acting agents of the borrower and Endeavour does not accept any responsibility for any action or any advice provided by the Credit Broker." just because EPF have put a get out clause in their terms doesnt mean it'll stand up in court - see my previus comments re Wilson v Hurstanger. It might be worth bringing this to the adjuducators attention.

Whilst the FOS are usefull on simple cases this one does seem like it was a bit too complicated for them and as a result they have simply made some basic enquiries and given up when it didnt fall into their lap.

PF- if you want to post the draft letter up I'll gladly cast an eye over it and see if theres anything I can contribute.

Hope this helps. Good luck

[di30]

Re: Hamilton/HFC/Endeavour - Reclaim PPI

Di, PF,

Endeavour ("EPF") were the lender, they are a subsidiarry of HSBC, HFC are also a subsidiary of HSBC and both have their registered office at the same addredd (The Parade,
Birmingham).

the call from HFC is known in broker circles as a "speak with", this is basically a security check by the lender prior to releasing funds. Its not inconceivable that HFC security dept staff may have also worked on EPF loans, hence the confusion and the fact the speak with sheet (which you have a copy of) is headed with both logo's. To my mind the lender is EPF not HFC altough the close relatrionship between the 2 does muddy the waters somewhat.

Have FOS contacted EPF to ask who brokered the loan (or do you have a letter from them stating this)?, if so that is the proof of an agency between the two, EPF would not accept loans from brokers who were not under agency (I know as I used to work for a broker who used them)

With regard to the terms and conditions, (quote) "I say this because Click acted as a Credit Broker when arranging the loan and Payment Protection Insurance (PPI) for you. In the terms & conditons of your Endeavour Credit Agreement, a copy of which I enclose, it specifically states that Credit Brokers used during the transaction are acting agents of the borrower and Endeavour does not accept any responsibility for any action or any advice provided by the Credit Broker." just because EPF have put a get out clause in their terms doesnt mean it'll stand up in court - see my previus comments re Wilson v Hurstanger. It might be worth bringing this to the adjuducators attention.

Whilst the FOS are usefull on simple cases this one does seem like it was a bit too complicated for them and as a result they have simply made some basic enquiries and given up when it didnt fall into their lap.

PF- if you want to post the draft letter up I'll gladly cast an eye over it and see if theres anything I can contribute.

Hope this helps. Good luck

Cheers Paul.
And for your feedback on this.

I did provide a copy of the letter to the adjudicator from Endeavour the loan lender stating the broker being Click Finance. I see what you mean here though. The adjudicator as you can see could not determine the relationship from one to the other, where paperwork sent clearly shows the broker, the lender, the insurer Hamilton and HFC etc.

As the FOS wanted to take the underwriter direction in my opinion these were HFC, and the Insurer Hamilton, as I do have separate paperwork of the ppi policy via Hamilton too.
It does muddy the waters on who etc.

Your contribution to this is much appreciated, thank you.

[di30]

Re: Hamilton/HFC/Endeavour - Reclaim PPI

Forgot to say as well, I did email the Adjudicator yesterday and said I may need more time, and asked if this was allowed the latest date I have, but up to now he have not got back.

[Paul210]

Re: Hamilton/HFC/Endeavour - Reclaim PPI

Cheers Paul.
And for your feedback on this.

I did provide a copy of the letter to the adjudicator from Endeavour the loan lender stating the broker being Click Finance. I see what you mean here though. The adjudicator as you can see could not determine the relationship from one to the other, where paperwork sent clearly shows the broker, the lender, the insurer Hamilton and HFC etc.

As the FOS wanted to take the underwriter direction in my opinion these were HFC, and the Insurer Hamilton, as I do have separate paperwork of the ppi policy via Hamilton too.
It does muddy the waters on who etc.

Your contribution to this is much appreciated, thank you.

you need to be carefull when trying to establish the 'underwriter', there are 2 separate types of underwritier in play here, a loan underwriter, someone who reviews your credit file and application and approves you as meeting the criteria for the finance (this would have been done initially by click prior to making you an offer and sending our the cerid agreements and other docs and likely checked prior to payout by an inhouse underwriter at EPF.

The second type of underwriter is in the insurance sense, i.e. being the insurance provider (Hamilton in this case) this is the type i think FOS are referring to as the responsability pre FSA auth under GISC rules could be held to the policy underwriter to ensure the cover provided was suitable.

In any event it would be difficult to argue that HFC were the underwriter, to my mind their only involvement was the admin work prior to payout of the loan, as i have stated this is due to the fact they are a sister company of EPF and likely shared offices/staff. Any work done by HFC will have been done on behalf of EPF and as such EPF are liable as lender, not HFC.

I think the key is to state clearly to FOS that EPF were lender and using vicarious loability precedent you feel they are jointly liable for the sale i the brokers absense.

[di30]

Re: Hamilton/HFC/Endeavour - Reclaim PPI

you need to be carefull when trying to establish the 'underwriter', there are 2 separate types of underwritier in play here, a loan underwriter, someone who reviews your credit file and application and approves you as meeting the criteria for the finance (this would have been done initially by click prior to making you an offer and sending our the cerid agreements and other docs and likely checked prior to payout by an inhouse underwriter at EPF.

The second type of underwriter is in the insurance sense, i.e. being the insurance provider (Hamilton in this case) this is the type i think FOS are referring to as the responsability pre FSA auth under GISC rules could be held to the policy underwriter to ensure the cover provided was suitable.

In any event it would be difficult to argue that HFC were the underwriter, to my mind their only involvement was the admin work prior to payout of the loan, as i have stated this is due to the fact they are a sister company of EPF and likely shared offices/staff. Any work done by HFC will have been done on behalf of EPF and as such EPF are liable as lender, not HFC.

I think the key is to state clearly to FOS that EPF were lender and using vicarious loability precedent you feel they are jointly liable for the sale i the brokers absense.

Cheers Paul

Yes I see your point here.
The issue I do have here is that Endeavour were not regulated, FSA/GISC when the loan was taken out in July 2004, so they would not be able to adjudicate with this one.
------------------------------- merged -------------------------------
I spoken too soon, email just arrived from the adjudicator and he have given until the 30 of June. So its extended.

Dear Mrs and Mr

Thank you for your email.

I will extend your delaine by 2 weeks. So that gives you until 30 June 2011. If you have any problems meeting this deadline then please let me know

Yours sincerely

M
Adjudicator | Financial Ombudsman Service
South Quay Plaza | 183 Marsh Wall | London | E14 9SR T:

[Paul210]

Re: Hamilton/HFC/Endeavour - Reclaim PPI

I thought FOS looked at anyone with a ccl, not just for their FSA auth period:

The financial businesses we cover include:

• around 30,000 businesses regulated by the Financial Services Authority (FSA) for their retail financial-services activities (you can check whether a business is regulated by the FSA on the FSA's online firm-check service);
• around 80,000 businesses who have a consumer-credit licence issued by the Office of Fair Trading (OFT) for their consumer-credit activities (you can check whether a business has a consumer credit licence by contacting the OFT's Consumer Credit Licensing Bureau);

Sterling credit (aka epf) have had a ccl sine 1978:
Application / Licence Details




Licence Number:0008412
Licence Status:Current

Current Applicant / Licensee:

Business NameCompany Registration NumberSterling Credit Limited71242

Categories:

Consumer credit Consumer hire Credit brokerage Credit reference agency Debt adjusting/counselling Debt collecting

Right To Canvass Off Trade Premises:Yes


Trading Name(s) (Current):

Beneficial Beneficial Mortgages Beneficial Sterling Beneficial Sterling Mortgages Endeavour Personal Finance Sterling Bank & Trust Sterling Credit Sterling Loans Sterling Moneyshops The Sterling Credit Group The Sterling Credit Group

Issued Date: 24-Feb-1978
Expiry Date: 07-Mar-2013


Legal Formation:

Charity / Trade Union / Other

[di30]

Re: Hamilton/HFC/Endeavour - Reclaim PPI

I thought FOS looked at anyone with a ccl, not just for their FSA auth period:


The financial businesses we cover include:

• around 30,000 businesses regulated by the Financial Services Authority (FSA) for their retail financial-services activities (you can check whether a business is regulated by the FSA on the FSA's online firm-check service);
• around 80,000 businesses who have a consumer-credit licence issued by the Office of Fair Trading (OFT) for their consumer-credit activities (you can check whether a business has a consumer credit licence by contacting the OFT's Consumer Credit Licensing Bureau);

Sterling credit (aka epf) have had a ccl sine 1978:
Application / Licence Details




Licence Number:0008412
Licence Status:Current

Current Applicant / Licensee:

Business NameCompany Registration NumberSterling Credit Limited71242

Categories:

Consumer credit Consumer hire Credit brokerage Credit reference agency Debt adjusting/counselling Debt collecting

Right To Canvass Off Trade Premises:Yes


Trading Name(s) (Current):

Beneficial Beneficial Mortgages Beneficial Sterling Beneficial Sterling Mortgages Endeavour Personal Finance Sterling Bank & Trust Sterling Credit Sterling Loans Sterling Moneyshops The Sterling Credit Group The Sterling Credit Group

Issued Date: 24-Feb-1978
Expiry Date: 07-Mar-2013


Legal Formation:

Charity / Trade Union / Other

I do remember though trying to make Endeavour responsible as well as mentioning the HFC to them, because with the broker dissolved, and this is what it states on part of the letter:

Your comments regarding the Financial Ombudsman Service have been noted: however EPF (Endeavour) did not fall under the jurisdiction of the Financial Ombudsman Service prior to 6 April 2007. As your complaint relates to an issue that occurred prior to this date, we believe they may not be able to adjudicate on this matter.
It is important to clarify that whilst HFC Bank owns EPF, the products offered under each brand are different and as such, are subject to differing arbitration services.

Yours sincerely
Central Complaints Consumer Finance

[Paul210]

Re: Hamilton/HFC/Endeavour - Reclaim PPI

might be a silly question and am sure youve considere but have you spoken to FSCS to see if they will pick up re broker being dissolved?