Luggerbugs v Welcome Finance

[LuggerBugs]

Re: Luggerbugs v Welcome Finance

Haha. Welcome Appreciation and News Club. WANC for short. Hmm. Maybe not.

It's getting quite interesting. I've been having a look at the Semper restitution arguement, and it seems to fit the bill. In England. Scotland is somewhat different though. And it appears that here is legislation going through which allows for the same, based on an interest rate that would be appropriate. At the time of writing, the proposal was for 6.5%, plus 1.5% above the rate. Which I guess mirrors the statutory 8% at present.

HOWEVER, that is based on a rate which is commercially available, and may vary from time to time. Thinking out loud, then that argument would by definition mean that the lower rate commercially available to me as a consumer would not apply. As quite clearly, if I had access to normal rates, I would therefore not have gone to Welcome in the first place. Thus, to calculate interest at their contractual rate would seem like fair restitution to me, and not at all punative from Welcome's point of view.

Yes? No?
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Hmm. You may be right there Nelly. If this drags out too long, I could end up in a bun fight with the administrators, who wouldn't give a toss about mis-sold PPI. That WOULD end up in court, methinks.

On the other hand, they might be glad just to get me off their books. Especially as I have something else that they might not be too happy with. Can't say too much at this stage, except it could go some way towards explaining where some of their accounting irregularities have created a huge black hole in their figures. Let's just call it "creative accounting" for the moment.

I need to work out the pro's and cons, and decide the best course of action. They have pi55ed me off no end now, but I shouldn't let anger get in the way of reason.

[LuggerBugs]

Re: Luggerbugs v Welcome Finance

And THIS is very encouraging. Although it would require a court to extend the limitation period, I rather think that a court is exactly where this will go if Welcome don't start playing fair...

The court can also postpone the limitation period in cases of fraud, concealment or mistake (s32). The period of limitation shall not begin to run until the claimant has discovered the fraud, concealment or mistake or could with reasonable diligence have discovered it.

I like the use of the word FRAUD here. :tinysmile_twink_t2:

[Amethyst]

Re: Luggerbugs v Welcome Finance

I think you should be looking at the build up across the agreements.

Each successive loan paid off the ppi credit and interest charged thereon, then new ppi credit was attached to the new loan, so you are paying ppi on ppi in essence.

When one loan was paid off with the new loan, you need to know what happened with the ppi credit included in the agreement. If it was paid off with the new loan then each new loan should have been reduced by the previous loans ppi amount, making the next loan less and the ppi amount required less etc and so on.

??

and yes I agree with your tendancy towards the last option.

[LuggerBugs]

Re: Luggerbugs v Welcome Finance

Just been reminded about something, so I've just had a look at my latest "agreement". I have NO idea why I never spotted it before, as it is bloomin obvious.

BUT. Should Welcome decide to try to argue that the PPI WASN'T mis-sold, although I think they would be foolish to try that one, then all I need to do is produce the Magic Paperwork. That's the one which they haven't signed by the way.

And also has boxes to tick if I want their silly insurances. WHICH I HAVEN'T TICKED!!!

Stuffed. So now they cannot argue that I agreed to PPI, and therefore the agreemement DEFFO is very prejudicial to me, as I think any decent judge would agree.

As well as that, I have a funny feeling I banked the cheque BEFORE the date on the agreement. And they have dated their box, although not signed it, AFTER the cheque was issued. I think, due to a cock up with the original figures if I remember correctly.

And it does state on the agreement that I have 7 days to consider whether I wish to commit or cancel.

They are royally screwed.

[Tools]

Re: Luggerbugs v Welcome Finance

Nice one Lugger.

[LuggerBugs]

Re: Luggerbugs v Welcome Finance

Just had an email from Mrs Lugger... Big Bundle of Bummf arrived from them this morning.

I wonder what goodies I will find in there.

Why do my SAR'S always arrive when I'm at sea? How am I going to manage to relax for the next fortnight?

[enaid]

Re: Luggerbugs v Welcome Finance

Just had an email from Mrs Lugger... Big Bundle of Bummf arrived from them this morning.

I wonder what goodies I will find in there. We are all wondering too now lol

Why do my SAR'S always arrive when I'm at sea? How am I going to manage to relax for the next fortnight?

I am sure by being 'at sea' means you are supposed to be working and if you work hard enough, you will be tired and nod off quite easily LOL

[Sapphire]

Re: Luggerbugs v Welcome Finance

I've heard that sailors find lots of things to keep them amused :nono::kiss:

[LuggerBugs]

Re: Luggerbugs v Welcome Finance

Yes, well this sailor is keeping himself amused by getting to grips with Wilson v Hurstanger as light bedtime reading.

It really is dynamite stuff. ALL Welcome loans with PPI are fooked.

[Amethyst]

Re: Luggerbugs v Welcome Finance

Come on then sailor, explain why.....

[LuggerBugs]

Re: Luggerbugs v Welcome Finance

OK, that case basically hinged on the requirement for commissions paid to be disclosed. More to it than that obviously, but in a nutshell it means that Welcome should have informed all their PPI customers that there was commission involved, who it went to, and that the customer had a choice to shop elsewhere as their advice was quite clearly biased, etc, etc.

So at the very least, EVERY commission payment ever made to Welcome (or Welcome Elite Brokers) ) needs to be repaid. It's my opinion that it means the PPI was mis-sold in every case as a result.

I've just found something else out too. More in a mo.

[Amethyst]

Re: Luggerbugs v Welcome Finance

ahhhh so commission was involved in the ppi and it obviously isnt shown.....and it was commission to themselves basically lol - so yep with you now. And this has been disclosed with SARs and refund of PPI's?

So it should show PPI £3000 - PPI commission £300 total PPI credit £3300 PPI credit interest (whatever) rather than just PPI £3300 PPI interest (whatever)?

[LuggerBugs]

Re: Luggerbugs v Welcome Finance

Welcome seem to be offering PPI refunds, and in the case of early resettlement, offering a percentage of the PPI rather than the whole amount.

Additionally, Welcome seem to think that your PPI only covers you for 5 years, rather than the whole term of the loan. This can now be shot down in flames, as I will explain in a moment.

This all relates to Cattles' submission to the Competition Commission enquiry into PPI, back in 2007. Have a gander here...

http://www.competition-commission.or...attles_plc.pdf

Now, I am under the impression that, as the PPI has to be paid up front, then when a resettlement figure is calculated, it doesn't take into account a rebate for the insurance. Am I correct on that one? Should the WHOLE PPI amount be refunded? And if I am right, then I think this proves that the insurance IS paid for at the start of the loan. Comments please, about that bit.

3.7 Cattles provides single premium PPI to its customers so the customer is protected throughout the life of the loan. As discussed below, Cattles' customers are more likely than mainstream finance customers to miss monthly repayments and experience periods of financial difficulty which may lead to missed repayments.

3.8 Cattles considers that monthly repayment policies would not be appropriate to the majority of Cattles customers who may default on the payments which would result in higher costs for Cattles which could in turn result in an increase in the price of Cattles' PPI. Customers who defaulted on PPI payments may also forfeit their right to claim under the policy and loan repayments would not be protected.

As you can see in para 3.7, it also states that the cutomer is protected throughout the LIFE OF THE LOAN. So where does the 5 year cover come into the argument? Hmmm.

Just to close, I had to have a chuckle at this bit. I bet this statement sticks in their throats somewhat now.

4.3 Customer satisfaction with PPI is demonstrated by Cattles own customer surveys and the fact that Cattles does not receive significant numbers of complaints regarding PPI.

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ahhhh so commission was involved in the ppi and it obviously isnt shown.....and it was commission to themselves basically lol - so yep with you now. And this has been disclosed with SARs and refund of PPI's?

So it should show PPI £3000 - PPI commission £300 total PPI credit £3300 PPI credit interest (whatever) rather than just PPI £3300 PPI interest (whatever)?

It's not SUPPOSED to have been revealed. But in their rush to comply with a flood of SARs, the odd one or two underwriting sheets have inadvertently escaped. Which is revealing their little secret to the world.

I'm hoping there's one in my SAR bundle, since I did ask for that info. Due home on Monday, so I don't have long to wait to find out.

So, since this means every PPI policy was mis-sold (IMVHO), then that makes the final figure for credit incorrect. Which makes the repayment schedule a load of tosh. Which means.... well, I think you can work that one out.

[LuggerBugs]

Re: Luggerbugs v Welcome Finance

Right, been going through the SAR bundle. I'll need to start making a list of things to hiyt them with soon, cos there are more questions than answers. Things like, Where's my statement for the LAST loan I had with ye?

However. Getting a tad confused about the whole calculation of PPI nonsense. Tried using the calculator from OTR, but to be honest, the figures it's coming up with look like telephone numbers to me, and THAT can't be right, can it?

If anybody else has used it, and agrees with its calcs, can they give me a shout, pretty please? aw:

[LuggerBugs]

Re: Luggerbugs v Welcome Finance

Deffo something wrong with the calcs.

I've only input 2 loans so far, and already it's come out at stat interest of over £10K, and compound of over £34K. Nahhhhhhhh. Yes????? Nahhhhhhh???????

HELP!!!