Momentum Network / CCK

[davidjack ppc]

Re: Momentum Network / CCK

Interesting, Rankine will probably say thats his proof that the BBC endorse him too, quite clearly they didnt!

[natweststaffmember]

Re: Momentum Network / CCK

Hunter_01, can I ask you for the CCK MOJ authorisation number since you have stated that your are authorised by the MOJ yet that should be past tense, ie was authorised. Here is my evidence: Claims Management Regulation - Claims Management Regulation


Can you confirm if you have now been re regulated since proof is everything?
------------------------------- merged -------------------------------
Can you be more specific on the Thisismoney link since that links forces me to read the Daily Mail(not exactly specific to CCK).

[Amethyst]

Re: Momentum Network / CCK

17. We recognise that the cancellation of authorisation would effectively sterilise Momentum’s business so far as it relates to the Credit Card Killer activity. Does that consequence outweigh the need to protect consumers who might consider buying and using the Credit Card Killer “facility” offered by Momentum? We think not.

I don't know if the appeal has taken place yet, but the above doesnt really scan with Basils comment posted by hunter that....

we have the backing of the MoJ and all the paperwork is on our website and the Tribunal has declared debt purchase as a regulated activity.

4. The case for Momentum, presented by Mr Oliver Mishcon, is that it has not engaged in regulated activities to which the Decision Letter purports to relate, the matters are therefore outside the scope of the Regulator’s authority

so can you point me to where the

Tribunal has declared debt purchase as a regulated activity

Also in a letter to ThisisMoney in October you have stated

The MOJ does not regulate the debt industry, they cover the claims industry, correct or
remove this statement. We can and are operating legally within the unregulated debt
industry.
The appeal is yet to take place; the tribunal service can confirm this. We failed to have
the cancellation of our authorisation overturned until the full appeal is heard. Please
amend or remove this statement as the appeal hearing has not taken place yet. See
agent-port.co.uk for full details.

(from http://www.creditcardkiller.co.uk/cck/cckdm.nsf/plinksp/MADN-7X8DFQ/$File/LetterThisMoney2nd16102009.pdf and for info the correct webadress should be Download Centre but its all log in only )


The April Letter from MOJ to CCK - http://www.creditcardkiller.co.uk/cck/cckdm.nsf/plinksp/MADN-7X9G5G/$File/MOJ3.pdf - the letter on Page 8 from Claims Regulator alledges an offence. Page 22 and bottom of 23 - is Claims Regulation alledging unauthorise/criminal activity in an email to fasthosts to request the site is taken down.

[davidjack ppc]

Re: Momentum Network / CCK

The appela was heard and they failed to get the cancellation overturned, i have seen the tribunial papers in passing, will try and get a copy to upload.

[davidjack ppc]

Re: Momentum Network / CCK

[quote=hunter_01;139473]Again as I pointed out to Curlyben and to dildobaggins agreements are not assessed.
The statement on the website relates to the agreement being assessed in relation to the following things:

No ccj
Unsecured
Debt Issued prior to jan 08

I've seen all the paperwork and spoken to many many sellers. I've spoken and met CCK agents & Mr Rankine. I've seen the whole process close up.

quote]


That again kind of flys in the facxe of what they are selling, or not as the case may be.

[natweststaffmember]

Re: Momentum Network / CCK

I am starting to understand the basic model, and it has taken a lot of reading around the waffle and intermittant nonsense that has been posted on all the threads.
This seems to be the process. The Creditor terminates the agreement, which gives the debtor the chance to sell their agreement since it has been terminated with a balance owing.
This is where it gets hazy, how long does the debtor have to sell the debt to CCK/Momentum?
Hunter_01, you have given figures of 10% taken to court. This part I still do not understand and I DO NEED a transcript for.
I need a live example when the creditor has sued the Original Debtor and they have claimed CCK/Momentum own the debt and it has been struck out.
The bank sues the debtor and the debtor states CCK/Momentum owns the debt or does CCK/Momentum defend the case on the debtor's behalf?
Furthermore, what proof or what receipt is legally sound for CCK/Momentum to own the debt or rather what proof is given to the debtor so that if the creditor contacts them that they can prove that their debt is sold to CCK/Momentum?

[Amethyst]

Re: Momentum Network / CCK

Bilmey Nats, you explained that in a more confused way than Hunter did.

He was saying, that becuase the debts are defaulted and the lenders can't be bummed to chase Basil they'll make a F&F settlement offer of 10% of the debt, which is basically the fee the original debtor paid to basil plus their [£400].

The point is reached by allowing the OC to make F&F's and threatend court action, and in some cases take court action against the original Debtor. CCK come in as a third party, the Judge declares the debt unenforceable AGAINST the original Debtor BECAUSE the sale is valid, and the OC must take a NEW action in court in order to sue Basil for the debt (after going through preaction etc again so possibly making an F&F offer).

I don't know what happens if a OC won't accept a F&F of 10% tho, I assume they get judgement, or Basil defends on other CCA issues. And not a clue what Basil does if the Court rules that debt sale in this way is invalid - I think hunter was saying that Basil indemnifies the original debtor against that and pays the court costs and debt in full (as judgmented against the OC) Don't know what he does about the OC getting a CCJ, if Basil doesnt pay what about charge orders etc.

That a bit clearer ? (no idea if its right that just what I got from Hunters post)
And if that is the case then its bloody risky and the seller of the debt to Basil knows nothing about him relying on the OC taking the original debtor to court (which only comes after a stack of DCA hassle and Credit reference agency reporting)

[natweststaffmember]

Re: Momentum Network / CCK

Is that all they are doing, ie negotiating an amount less than the fee that they paid for the debt?

[Amethyst]

Re: Momentum Network / CCK

I assume in some cases they'll defend on CCA issues, but otherwise yes it sounds that way.



Sales Docs and Terms for CCK - http://www.creditcardkiller.co.uk/cck/cckdm.nsf/62b7ae7747f383bd8025764000516d56/dae1f407ea4c3fba8025765700591d77/$FILE/AgentFormsConsumer.pdf

and commerical - http://agent-portal.co.uk/quick%20do...Commercial.pdf
and guidance - http://www.agent-portal.co.uk/quick%...ust%202009.pdf

Some nice terms

9. Save in connection with any judicial proceedings, the
Seller(s) will not, without prior written consent of the
Purchaser, disclose to third parties any information received
or obtained in connection with the performance of its
obligations under this Agreement.

10. The Seller(s) consent(s) that information concerning this
Agreement can be used in any announcement, press release,
statement or disclosure or other publicity.

12. The Purchaser retains the right to reassign this agreement to
the Seller(s) without cost, query or consequence to the
Purchaser in respect of any breach of this agreement.

13. The Purchaser retains the right to assign/sell this agreement
to a third party on any terms they deem fit without cost or
query to the Seller(s).

1. The Seller(s) hereby absolutely, unconditionally and
irrevocably assign/sell to the Purchaser all rights, liabilities,
benefits, data, title, interest, remedies or causes of and
other rights in action which I/we the Seller(s) may have
against any party related to or connected to the amount
owed in relation to the terminated consumer credit
agreement.
2. The Seller(s) hereby acknowledge(s) that the Purchaser has
the right to use the Seller(s)' personal details to the extent
necessary to effectively exercise all or any such rights,
remedies and causes of action, and that they will provide the
Purchaser with any assistance they may reasonably require
when exercising such rights, remedies and causes of action,
subject to the Purchaser indemnifying the Seller(s) against
liability for costs, charges and expenses arising out of and/or
in connection with any proceedings which they may take on
their behalf in the exercise of such rights, remedies and
causes of action.

Dear Customer Services Manager,
I/We hereby give notice that I/we am/are cancelling my/our agreement above with immediate effect.
From today, I/we am/are no longer responsible to you for any rights, liabilities nor the data in relation to the previous amount owing since this has
been sold to Momentum Network Limited, Floor 2, Baskerville House, Centenary Square, Birmingham B1 2ND.
Furthermore I/we withdraw my/our consent previously given to you for any additional data to be processed, recorded or for any information or data
to be held by any Credit Reference Agency or for any data to be passed to a third party in relation to the terminated credit agreement.
I/We give consent only for the entry relating to the previous amount owing being deleted from my/our credit file or marked as “Nil”.
Please note that cancellation of the said contract is not to be treated as having the effect of breaching the agreement as a whole

[charitynjw]

Re: Momentum Network / CCK

Have I got this right?:-

A (Lender) & B (Borrower) sign a contract; C agrees (for a fee) to 'buy' B's side of the agreement.
A or B can terminate (A must terminate if they want to bring B to court)
The instant the contract between A & B is terminated, C's agreement with B becomes legally binding, & A has to deal with C.
But B has the money?
Am I missing something here?

[Sapphire]

Re: Momentum Network / CCK

Have I got this right?:-

A (Lender) & B (Borrower) sign a contract; C agrees (for a fee) to 'buy' B's side of the agreement.
A or B can terminate (A must terminate if they want to bring B to court)
The instant the contract between A & B is terminated, C's agreement with B becomes legally binding, & A has to deal with C.
But B has the money?
Am I missing something here?

Christ this is better than a game of Cluedo, can we please, please have some PIL so that everyone can understand.

[Amethyst]

Re: Momentum Network / CCK

You borrow money off a lender.
You spend said money.
You decide you can't pay it back, so you sell the debt on to Basil (paying him £450 plus 10% of the debt) to get it off your back
Basil doesn't repay the debt either and negotiates with bank for a reduced F&F settlement.
Bank doesnt play ball or recognise Basil owns debt so sues YOU.
YOU defend saying Basil owns the debt. (then it goes hypothetical as its not yet been proven in court)
The court agrees and tells the lender to bog off and sue Basil.
Lender sues Basil instead.
Basil negotiates reduced F&F or claims loan unenforceable by virtue of CCA 1974, or pays up.

that make more sense?

[Amethyst]

Re: Momentum Network / CCK

I think that the UCA Claims Management Companies work same way btw.

They have to wait for lender to take legal action against debtor then they step in and defend case. Look at the case laws, the majority are DEFENCE arguments.

Thats why some say carry on paying lender, making u hang about thinking they are doing some kind of claim for unenforceability (which u cant actually do), when really they are just holding on to your money waiting for when you cant pay any more and the bank sues you.

Some CMCs will try to negotiate F&F's on dodgy credit agreements before it gets to stage of lender taking you to court.

(ummm so yep what people here do)

[Sapphire]

Re: Momentum Network / CCK

You borrow money off a lender.
You spend said money.
You decide you can't pay it back, so you sell the debt on to Basil (paying him £450 plus 10% of the debt) to get it off your back
Basil doesn't repay the debt either and negotiates with bank for a reduced F&F settlement.
Bank doesnt play ball or recognise Basil owns debt so sues YOU.
YOU defend saying Basil owns the debt. (then it goes hypothetical as its not yet been proven in court)
The court agrees and tells the lender to bog off and sue Basil.
Lender sues Basil instead.
Basil negotiates reduced F&F or claims loan unenforceable by virtue of CCA 1974, or pays up.

that make more sense?

Thats fantastic Ame, yes its makes total sense now.

Do you see what I mean when I keep going on about PIL now ? Just think of all those people out there who would/could understand/feel better about things if everything was in PIL.

[Amethyst]

Re: Momentum Network / CCK

lol try me best, but have to actually understand things myself before I can get them in PIL for everyone else. Am trying to get these POCs and letters in PIL too but must say its bloody hard work when law is pretty much about word play.