Dusty v Yorkshire Bank - summary judgment & costs against claimant

[Amethyst]

Original Thread MoneySavingExpert.com Forums - View Single Post - Bank Charges Success Stories II

TAKE NOTICE that the GENERAL APPLICATION will take place on 23rd February 2010 at 11.40AM
at Shrewsbury county court (continues with address)
When you should attend
20 minutes has been allowed for the GENERAL APPLICATION
Please note this case may be released to another judge, possibly at a different court.

Thanks Ame, phew, thought no one would reply. I phoned the court yesterday and spoke to a clerk who looked into the case. You are right, the Yorkshire bank had applied for a strike out with no hearing, but the judge said it could be heard in court. The clerk put a copy of their application in post and I received it today. Basically say's (I think) that they are seeking a strike out on the basis that the case discloses no reasonable grounds for bringing the claim and/or summary judgment pursuant to part 24 CPR on the grounds that the claiment (me) has no real prospect of success. Wish I could get the papers to someone to have a look at. I would like to continue in that I paid money to the court for the case, but also that the claim was in joint names and my husband has since died and he would have loved to have got something back from that bank.
Do you think its worth getting in touch with the citizens advice? I don't think its worth using a solicitor, would be expensive and claim was for £1,471. We did reject their offer of £200 prior to putting a claim in.
Sorry this is so long but really appreciate your time reading this.
Sue

I am so sorry for your loss ((((((((((hug))))))))))))) will help you with this all we can.
Okay, can you please come over to Beagles and post on the BANK CHARGES CLAIMS IN COURT SYSTEM forum - We will help you with what you need to prepare for the hearing. If you want to carry on fighting, there MAY be a costs risk of continuing if you lost as the new arguments are untested although you are in small claims so that shouldnt be too bad if it arises, by the time your hearing comes around we should have a much clearer picture of how the banks and courts are going to react so if we dont feel confident at that stage you can pull out. If you used the standard POC from here back in 07 then it is likely you would be struck out. So we can help you get together a witness statement and amendments to your POC to submit to counter the strike. We will also need to inform the court of the change in your circumstances with regards the claimants.

When you first claimed, did you get a full set of statements or transaction lists - or just a list of charges from the bank ? If statements then you will need to dig them out as we need to go through and find examples of instances where the charges demonstrate the unfairness in the relationship you have with the bank.

www.legalbeagles.info

Dont feel on your own with these either, there is similar at Leeds and Plymouth courts too, and I suspect many more will come up as the banks get their letters sent out to the courts.

Ame xxxx

[dustymare]

Re: Suewilo v Yorkshire Bank - hearing 23rd Feb - strike application

Thanks Ame, really appreciate your support,
Yes I would like to continue with the claim, I just hope not to lose any more money (like everyone else of course) though I appreciate there is a risk involved. Sorry to be thick but what is a POC? I did use the template letters from MSE website, they were very useful. I also put in writing my change of circumstances 2 days ago as the court clerk suggested when I phoned her and that was posted yesterday.
I have got a big pile of statements/printouts from the Yorkshire bank ands all the correspondence, sorted them out last night and currently sitting nice and quietly on my sideboard.
Hope this helps and thanks again as I felt very isolated and unsure what to do, But I really don't want to give up because those charges were very unfair and put is in more hardship at the time.
Sue

[Amethyst]

Re: Suewilo v Yorkshire Bank - hearing 23rd Feb - strike application

Hey, glad you found the right place

Okay you have a couple options;

1) Let Yorkshire dismiss the claim and forget reclaiming historical charges

The MSE templates POC (particulars of claim ie the details you wrote on the form you sent to the court or via moneyclaim online) were quite basic and concentrated on Penalties and UTCCR 6(2) disproportionate arguments - both of which have been subject to high court and supreme court judgments as not being applicable to bank charges claims. So if you do nothing, the claim is likely to be struck out I suspect this will be a bulk hearing for the general application of the judgment to bank charges claims, and only those who wish to continue will show up. Allowing the claim to be dismissed SHOULDN'T cost you anything further - I very much doubt if the bank will apply for 'wasted costs' against claimants - as claims are in small claims it is unlikely a judge would award them anyway, but to be on the safe side it would be wise to add in a request for no costs . However you will lose your court fee.

2) Continue the claim and fight for redress

This carries a risk of costs, as with anything in court. The arguments are as yet untested in court and there is no print and send template. However we do believe the arguments are sound although they are individual arguments and depend on the actual terms agreed between you and the bank and the way your account has operated and any specific circumstances. We have got a few claims which are in for hearings and defences shortly and we will know more once we have responses to the new arguments from the banks so we will be much more informed by the time of your hearing.

To continue you will need to put in some time and effort and will involve going through your statements and transactions to pick out parts which are particularly unfair and illustrate the imbalance in the contract to your detriment.

Tools has a yorkshire bank claim in court too at the moment and is working on specific POC amendments for his claim, once we have the basis of a YB claim it will be simpler to personalise but there is a way to go yet.

What you will need to do is about 14 days before the hearing is submit a witness statement and a revised particulars of claim, asking for the case to continue and for your amended particulars to be accepted. Then the claim will kind of start over with the bank having to enter a new defence based on the new arguments.

Have a read of Megansden v Lloyds as he is doing similar for a stay application hearing mid Feb.

mmmm okay that doesnt sound very positive does it. Bank charges ARE unfair and we all know it, even one of the Judges in the Supreme Court hearing said that they were ! Its just getting the right arguments in place xxx

Have a read through the other posts on this forum and a ponder anyway - we will help all we can.

[dustymare]

Re: Suewilo v Yorkshire Bank - hearing 23rd Feb - strike application

Thanks Ame for your quick reply,
I will go for 2nd option and continue with the claim. I will plod through the statements and identify the particularly unfair charges, making note of dates and amounts, that should not be too bad! I hope.
Still can't work out what POC stands for, also is Tools another member?
Can you let me know what and how to do a witness statement please when you get time? I appreciate I am not the only one so I don't expect you to focus only on my claim though.
I have just found a link on here for the yorkshire bank, (thousands of unfair bank charges claims), a post about Claire H v YB. It says that a Kirstie Ross has put the application in. She has also put in the application notice to me. Upon reading the copy sent to me from Shrewsbury couty after phoning them, it was dated 21/12/09. It does state in part C (7) that the defendant has filed a case summary with the court today and sent a copy to the claimant. Must be lost in the post because not received it as yet.
Thanks Sue

Sorry, just looked at "meet out team" and found Tools!! Silly me, should take more time to look round site.

[Amethyst]

Re: Suewilo v Yorkshire Bank - hearing 23rd Feb - strike application

POC - particulars of claim

Tools - yep another member

Re this

It does state in part C (7) that the defendant has filed a case summary with the court today and sent a copy to the claimant.

lol usual tricks then. Ask the court if you can have a copy of them, otherwise Tools says he'll give you Kirstie Ross's phone number tmw if you don't already have it and you can give her a buzz and ask for a copy.

Yorkshire bank are known for dirty tricks like accidentally forgetting to send you information.

Yeyyyy that you want to continue :kiss:

Just post up any questions as you go, and post up any examples of transactions you think show the unfairness and we can go through work out which ones are going to be most useful.

Do you have a scanner ?(in case we need to see any documents)

Also what year did you open the account ? and do you have any copies of the terms and conditions ?

When you submitted your original claim did you make a spreadsheet or just use MSE's calculator ? If so we may need to do a new spreadsheet with the updated interest amount (ie another two years of 8% PA)

[Tools]

Re: Suewilo v Yorkshire Bank - hearing 23rd Feb - strike application

Hi Sue

Did your original offer letter resemble any of the ones I have posted below? If so could you tell me which one please.

[dustymare]

Re: Suewilo v Yorkshire Bank - hearing 23rd Feb - strike application

Hi Amethyst, thanks for your help and support, it's really appreciated,
Hope I can answer your questions ok.
The court have sent me a copy of the application notice so I won't have to speak to the lovely Kirstie (yet).
I do have a scanner on my printer but never used it! Will try my best, But just saved something in draft and can't retrieve that so don't hold your breath!
I think we opened the account with the Yorkshire Bank in 1986, but don't think I have kept any copies of terms and conditions, sorry. No longer with the bank, as closed the account prior to putting claim in.
When the original claim was submitted I used the MSE's calculator for the interest. Never done a spreadsheet either but can ask the kids (all grown and left home) if and when I have to do one.
Still unable to scan in, instructions seem simple and have got saved on computor but can't add to this message yet, Sorry, will keep trying.
Tools, Thanks for your reply also,
Non of the examples are the same as mine, have got a copy but as above can't get in this message yet sorry.
Thanks again
Sue

[Kafka]

Re: Suewilo v Yorkshire Bank - hearing 23rd Feb - strike application

I have just found a link on here for the yorkshire bank, (thousands of unfair bank charges claims), a post about Claire H v YB. It says that a Kirstie Ross has put the application in.

I can say that Stephen is currently working on a response for Claire H to submit, but I don't know the details yet (expected imminently). As far as I am aware that one is the first YB case to be challenged in court. I also have one stayed since 2007 but have so far heard nothing.

[dustymare]

Re: Suewilo v Yorkshire Bank - hearing 23rd Feb - strike application

Hi Kafka, Sorry your claim is still stayed, but at present wish mine was too! Thanks for your information about other case, I feel for her. I am very anxious but suppose the worst that can happen is I lose! Hope your claimgoes well, I will keep an eye open for you. As you can see I struggle with anything but basic computer skills but will ask at work tomorrow, I think I am just missing the obvious. Still trying to attatch scans in!!

[Kafka]

Re: Suewilo v Yorkshire Bank - hearing 23rd Feb - strike application

I will keep you informed of developments with the case with Claire H

[Amethyst]

Re: Suewilo v Yorkshire Bank - hearing 23rd Feb - strike application

Cheers Kaf - is she in court same date ? Help required - I'm behind on developements ok found it 26th Jan strike hearing. KAFKA - have you told Stephen they are sending QC's to these hearing ? Just as a prewarning ? also has Claire received the case summary ?

Sue - the doc we need is the banks application rather than the court order for the hearing. ie. the submissions the bank have put in. Check the next post see if yours is the same.

Okay Just pasting some info for me for a bit.
http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/per...ed-defence.pdf - Amended Defence Test Case
http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/per...e-judgment.pdf - PIL - 46-50 & paras 313-314
http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/per...e-judgment.pdf page 18 - penalties
Latest T&C's - http://www.ybonline.co.uk/resources/...nking-YO14.pdf

Group NAB - Australia NAB abolished penalty fees in Oct 09 ( From October 1, NAB customers who overdraw their accounts or make automatic payments without enough funds will no longer be penalised $30. )

http://www.pc.gov.au/__data/assets/p...8/compbank.pdf
Parliament of Australia: Senate: Committees: Economics: Inquiry into the Australian Securities and Investment Commission (Fair Bank Credit Card Fees) Amendment Bill 2007

2004 Quarterly Speech - THAT speech - Yorkshire Bank 2004 - John Stewart/ Richard McKinnon and Penalty Fees - Legal Beagles

Customer Charter - Yorkshire Bank dated 2005

[Amethyst]

Re: Suewilo v Yorkshire Bank - hearing 23rd Feb - strike application

Docs from Claire H's application to strike - These will probably be same as yours Sue but need to check

(obv dates diff)

So need to ask Kirstie Ross for the CASE SUMMARY she alledges to have sent you - have asked Claire if she's had them too. - Kirtsie Ross number is (was?)0141 242 4496

Sue - if you have problems attaching anything here then please send it to me at admin@legalbeagles.info ( put your username as the title so I can find it easily ta)

[dustymare]

Re: Suewilo v Yorkshire Bank - hearing 23rd Feb - strike application

Hi Amethyst,
Have tried to add scanned documents, Hope its worked. I do have the banks application, the clerk at the court sent it to me. I have also included a page from the list of transactions which I feel were unfair.
Hi Tools,
I hope to have added a copy of the original offer.
Thanks to you all
Sue
Wahoo seems to have worked just hope your eyes are good!

[Amethyst]

Re: Suewilo v Yorkshire Bank - hearing 23rd Feb - strike application

Hi hun, well done, I have unapproved them for now tho as your name and address were on them. The Court order looks spot on same as Claire's I posted a bit further back.

The letter from Sutcliffes - do you recall ever asking for an overdraft extension and being refused at any time ? Just might help the imbalance arguments.

The list of charges - is that the whole list ? We probably want to put those in a spreadsheet and add the stat interest on TO DATE - make things a bit clearer. But we can look at that tomorrow

Team can still see the attachments, if you want to edit your name and address (and claim number actually) off and put them back up then that'd be good for others.

Great stuff thank u, probably need to speak to Kirstie on Monday now see if you can get this Case Summary off her, then we can get cracking

Ooo also, something you can be doing while you have your pile of statements there is write up any instances where the charges seem particularly unfair (ie only overdrawn a teeny bit and charges more than the overdrawn amount - charges where money was paid in same day - charges where transactions have been re-ordered to maximise charges that kind of thing)

[dustymare]

Re: Suewilo v Yorkshire Bank - hearing 23rd Feb - strike application

Hi Amethyst,
Thanks, trust me to leave personal details on. Yes looks same as Clares, thinking about her as hers is soon.
I do remember asking the bank for the overdraft to be raised, obviously they refused, but I never put it in writing. Hindsight is great eh?
No that was not the whole list of charges, there is another one and half pages. I will have a look through the statements as you suggest and write down the more unfair ones.
The court might have sent me a copy of the case summary, came with the copy of the application notice, have added (without name this time) the 1st page. If you can let me know when you have time, otherwise will ring Kirstie.
Thanks Sue