First Right of Appropriation...offsetting debt against benefits RBS

[Amethyst]

Have had this for a while....wondered if we should write to RBS asking about their policy on FROA?

[natweststaffmember]

Re: First Right of Appropriation...offsetting debt against benefits RBS

Might be worth asking them, not saying they would tell you, mind

[Amethyst]

Re: First Right of Appropriation...offsetting debt against benefits RBS

DRAFT for thoughts...............too many I am's lol



Dear Mr XXXXXXXXX (whos the CEO now of RBS?)

I am writing to you to request information about your banks current policy with regards to an individuals first right of appropriation.

I am aware of RBS groups considerable efforts to help consumers who have, through no fault of their own, suffered financial hardship.

I am sure you are aware that an individual has the ability, under common law, to assert their right of first appropriation where money intended to cover essential living expenses are being taken by the bank in what may (by some) be considered unfair charges or in fulfilment of other debts. This "Right of first Appropriation" allows a customer to assign any funds entering their account to finance basic survival needs. This is something all the banks should be aware of, but sometimes junior members of staff do not understand this process since it is not very often used. These occasions cause significant financial hardship.
You may be aware that many councils recommend the use of an individuals first right of appropriation with regards to allowing housing benefit payments to be used to pay rent. It does appear from the councils that they too have experienced problems with some bank staffs knowledge of the law and have assigned benefit payments to cover debts instead of allowing individuals their basic living expenses, indeed Hinckley and Bosworth Borough Council in their advice leaflet on the use of the first right of appropriation clearly state '' Your bank may disregard this request. If this does happen you would then have to complain and involve the banking Ombudsman, which could take some time to resolve. ''.

I am aware that you have made several commitments via the banking code to act reasonably to debtors in poor financial circumstances. Therefore, I would ask if you have any policies on tackling poverty, and ensuring that your customers are able to access benefits such as housing benefit and jobseekers allowance where they are necessary to fulfil basic needs.

Whilst I am aware you are extremely busy I would ask you to acknowledge this correspondence as soon as possible, indicating when you will be able to answer the questions raised in this letter.


Yours Sincerely


Ame

[Amethyst]

Re: First Right of Appropriation...offsetting debt against benefits RBS

Example letter publicised by warwick district council following refusal to follow FROA principles

Dear Sir/Madam,

Re: Right of Appropriation

Account Number: (Enter your Account Number)
I am writing to inform you that I am due to have Housing Benefit payments of £ (Enter value of Housing Benefit Payments) paid into my account on (Enter date of payment), and wish to use my first right of appropriation for this money, for the following purposes:
Rent £ (Enter value of your rent)
I have set up a standing order / direct debit / will withdraw the money for the above use, and I would be grateful if you would ensure that any other payments out of my account do not interfere with this withdrawal.
(Add details of the future regular payments if they will be regular payments of Housing Benefit).
Yours faithfully

(Signature)

(Enter your Address)
(Enter the Date)

(Add Name and Address of your Bank)
Dear Sir/Madam,
Re: Formal Complaint Under the Consumer Credit Act 2006
On (Add date of your Right of Appropriation Letter to your Bank) I wrote to you exercising my common law first right of appropriation in respect of payments in order to maintain my basic living requirements.
Instead of accepting this appropriation, your staff refused to abide by my common law rights. The bank has instead appropriated my payments for the purpose of paying an overdraft.
I am aware of the FSA waiver (in respect of the current OFT test case), which expressly requires the bank to consider hardship. I am also aware of the Banking Code, which requires you to behave sympathetically.
Please consider this letter a formal complaint under your complaints handling scheme set up under the consumer credit act 2006. I request acknowledgement of this letter in a reasonable timeframe, with a copy of your companies complaint procedure.
Yours Sincerely

(Signature)

[natweststaffmember]

Re: First Right of Appropriation...offsetting debt against benefits RBS

Stephen Hester(CEO)
------------------------------- merged -------------------------------

DRAFT for thoughts...............too many I am's lol



Dear Mr XXXXXXXXX (whos the CEO now of RBS?)

I am writing to you to request information about your banks current policy with regards to an individuals first right of appropriation.

RBS group has made considerable efforts to help consumers who have, through no fault of their own, suffered financial hardship.

An individual has the ability, under common law, to assert their right of first appropriation where money intended to cover essential living expenses are being taken by the bank in what may (by some) be considered unfair charges or in fulfilment of other debts. This "Right of first Appropriation" allows a customer to assign any funds entering their account to finance basic survival needs. This is something all the banks should be aware of, but sometimes junior members of staff do not understand this process since it is not very often used. These occasions cause significant financial hardship.
You may be aware that many councils recommend the use of an individuals first right of appropriation with regards to allowing housing benefit payments to be used to pay rent. It does appear from the councils that they too have experienced problems with some bank staffs knowledge of the law and have assigned benefit payments to cover debts instead of allowing individuals their basic living expenses, indeed Hinckley and Bosworth Borough Council in their advice leaflet on the use of the first right of appropriation clearly state '' Your bank may disregard this request. If this does happen you would then have to complain and involve the banking Ombudsman, which could take some time to resolve. ''.

RBS Group have made several commitments via the banking code to act reasonably to debtors in poor financial circumstances. Therefore, I would ask if you have any policies on tackling poverty, and ensuring that your customers are able to access benefits such as housing benefit and jobseekers allowance where they are necessary to fulfil basic needs.

I look forward to your response.

Yours Sincerely


Ame

Hope the minor edit is ok, amethyst?

[Amethyst]

Re: First Right of Appropriation...offsetting debt against benefits RBS

Ta, gone.

Hester, Keane and a couple press guys.

[Amethyst]

Re: First Right of Appropriation...offsetting debt against benefits RBS

Initial response

Thank you for your email dated 16 February 2009 addressed to Stephen Hester, our Group Chief Executive. In view of your comments, we have asked for some background information from the relevant areas. Once this is received, a formal response will be sent to you.

We will aim to get a response out to you as soon as we can but we also want to make sure that a thorough investigation takes place. If, for any reason, there looks like being a delay, we will, of course, write to you again to explain why.

If you do have any queries in the meantime, please feel free to contact us.

[Amethyst]

Re: First Right of Appropriation...offsetting debt against benefits RBS

Have chased this twice and no further response....

give it a couple more days...then what? any suggestions ?

[enaid]

Re: First Right of Appropriation...offsetting debt against benefits RBS

Ta, gone.

Hester, Keane and a couple press guys.

Have you chased them all up, or just Hester?
Was just wondering if the press people had shown any interest.

[Amethyst]

Re: First Right of Appropriation...offsetting debt against benefits RBS

Am talking to a Stuart Elkington - communications manager.

[Amethyst]

Re: First Right of Appropriation...offsetting debt against benefits RBS

Have a reply from the same letter sent to Barclays

Cxxxxxxxx Fxxxxx

Customer Services Director

UK Retail Banking

Barclays Bank PLC

One Churchill Place

London E14 5HP

Sharon xxxxx
By email: xxxxxx


13 March 2009


Dear Ms xxxxxx,


Thank you for your e-mail of 9 March to John Varley regarding customers in financial difficulty and funds available for the fulfilment of basic needs. John has asked me to reply on his behalf.


Barclays shares your concern that customers should always have enough funds for their basic needs, which is why our specialist collections staff are required to take this objective into account when reaching payment arrangements with customers who are experiencing financial difficulties. We do, of course, follow the requirements of the Banking Code and have regard to all other regulatory guidance when working with customers in these circumstances.


We do not, however, believe that applying specific credits to specific payments is the most effective approach for customers in this position. It is generally simpler both for the customer and the bank to reach a payment arrangement that in practice leaves the customer with sufficient funds for their basic needs rather than to try to earmark specific funds for specific purposes.


To support customers that get into financial difficulty, Barclays aims to contact them as soon as possible after they get into arrears so that we can agree a solution that both supports the needs of the customer and is acceptable to the bank. We take a sympathetic approach to each customer’s situation and we understand that each customer has individual needs unique to their circumstances.


We also work closely with the money advice sector to give additional support to those customers who have more serious financial difficulties.


I hope this reassures you that Barclays takes your concerns very seriously and has the appropriate procedures in place to help customers in this position.


Yours sincerely,

Avoided the main question so I will reply more specifically on First Right of Appropriation and Bank Charges.

[natweststaffmember]

Re: First Right of Appropriation...offsetting debt against benefits RBS

have you emailed all banks?

[Amethyst]

Re: First Right of Appropriation...offsetting debt against benefits RBS

yes I have

lloyds replied previously will bring their letter over to this thread


also further holding reply from RBS

Apologies for the further delay in getting a response out to you, however given the nature of your enquiry, we have had to approach a number of areas to seek information/guidance. Please bear with us while we conclude matters and be assured that we will provide you with a full response as soon as we are able.

Thank you again for your patience.

[Amethyst]

Re: First Right of Appropriation...offsetting debt against benefits RBS

[natweststaffmember]

Re: First Right of Appropriation...offsetting debt against benefits RBS

That response was total and utter hogwash. I do hope you replied politely that you were not questioning how they handled a request merely what their process would be should they receive a letter of that nature.