Capital one credit card-Lowell- Bryan carter

[BLUEOTTER]

Grateful for some advice here please as I realise this issue is highly likely to have been seen before and I don't want to waste anyone's time.

I have Bryan Carter chasing me for a credit card debt (6k) lowells bought from Capital one. They say it was purchased a year ago and they want what's owed. A few letters have flown back and forth, initially I thought it was SB,d , that looks unlikely as the last payment was 5 years ago, needs to be six .
The credit card was issued to me by capital one circa 2000/01 via the simple application form process, ie no prescribed terms etc.
At some stage and following a CCA request by me about 4 years ago I was sent some prescribed and reconstituted terms and conditions this is what BC and lowells are now relying on.
This has not reached court claim territory yet, it has been put on hold pending my reply to them,I have 14 days.
So my question please is do I contest that it's unenforceable due to what I believe is a simple case of lack of an enforceable agreement or can they use the signed application form of circa 2000/01 together with some reconstituted terms to push this through.I've read various threads regarding a timeframe of 2007 and its importance with debts before this date not being enforceable due to the initial agreement not being properly executed as in this case .

Grateful for advice please, like I said I don't want to waste anybody's time of this is cut and dried due to my signing an application form 15 years ago.
Thank you

[Kafka]

Re: Capital one credit card-Lowell- Bryan carter

Have a look at this current thread that is also Cap1/BC/Lowell

http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...ka-v-BC-Lowell

[Kafka]

Re: Capital one credit card-Lowell- Bryan carter

My guess is that that far back neither the agreement nor the terms will be kosher from that lot. BC/Lowell have form for shoddy attempts to reconstitute things. Signing a form doesn't mean much if the form does not have all the prescribed terms in order.

Can you post up the docs you have been sent with personal details blanked?

What was the default process - was that followed correctly?

Presumably charges were added too. What do they add up to?

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Capital one credit card-Lowell- Bryan carter

Grateful for some advice here please as I realise this issue is highly likely to have been seen before and I don't want to waste anyone's time.

You're not wasting our time, that's what we're here for. :thumb:

I have Bryan Carter chasing me for a credit card debt (6k) lowells bought from Capital one. They say it was purchased a year ago and they want what's owed. A few letters have flown back and forth, initially I thought it was SB,d , that looks unlikely as the last payment was 5 years ago, needs to be six .
The credit card was issued to me by capital one circa 2000/01 via the simple application form process, ie no prescribed terms etc.
At some stage and following a CCA request by me about 4 years ago I was sent some prescribed and reconstituted terms and conditions this is what BC and lowells are now relying on.
This has not reached court claim territory yet, it has been put on hold pending my reply to them,I have 14 days.
So my question please is do I contest that it's unenforceable due to what I believe is a simple case of lack of an enforceable agreement or can they use the signed application form of circa 2000/01 together with some reconstituted terms to push this through. I've read various threads regarding a timeframe of 2007 and its importance with debts before this date not being enforceable due to the initial agreement not being properly executed as in this case .

Yes, basically s.127(3) of the Consumer Credit Act prevented a court from enforcing an account unless there had been a properly executed agreement containing all the prescribed terms to start with, however, this section was repealed with effect from April 2007 so it only prevents the court from enforcing accounts taken out prior to the repeal: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/...on/127/enacted

(3)The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a) (signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

Grateful for advice please, like I said I don't want to waste anybody's time of this is cut and dried due to my signing an application form 15 years ago.
Thank you

As noted above it would be good to see what Mr Carter has sent you. If it's a letter of claim then you have to respond accordingly. This thread should help you with uploading and attaching documents: http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...r-details-safe!)

[BLUEOTTER]

Re: Capital one credit card-Lowell- Bryan carter

Thank you both for the quick replies, very much appreciated.
I have a lot of letters and such like concerning this so will put some chronological history to it today and post up later. Reading the above I think I now understand that being a 2001 account enforceability will actually require a properly executed agreement as at the point I applied, not something put together afterwards.Am i correct on this point please ?

[nemesis45]

Re: Capital one credit card-Lowell- Bryan carter

Thank you both for the quick replies, very much appreciated.
I have a lot of letters and such like concerning this so will put some chronological history to it today and post up later. Reading the above I think I now understand that being a 2001 account enforceability will actually require a properly executed agreement as at the point I applied, not something put together afterwards.Am i correct on this point please ?

For an agreement made prior to April 2007 the original agreement is needed to enforce. Lowell/Carter may try to use the recon + other evidence of usage of the card but this can be challenged should it happen.

nem

[Kafka]

Re: Capital one credit card-Lowell- Bryan carter

Basically yes, because this is a pre-2007 agreement, but we need to see what they have sent you as claimed to be valid documentation.

What also helps is a timeline as a simple list of events in date order, so we can exactly what the chain of actions and correspondence has been. :thumb:

[Kati]

Re: Capital one credit card-Lowell- Bryan carter

If you have any problems uploading (redacted) documents, email them to me ... I'll be happy to put them up for you (kati@legalbeagles.info) xx

[BLUEOTTER]

Re: Capital one credit card-Lowell- Bryan carter

Thank you folks, will upload when my children allow me some quiet time later !

[BLUEOTTER]

Re: Capital one credit card-Lowell- Bryan carter

[BLUEOTTER]

Re: Capital one credit card-Lowell- Bryan carter

This is the second part , the first letter below is from capital one circa 2010 when I first requested a compliant agreement. I received a copy of a signed application/ agreement form (posted above) that lowells and bryan carter sent to me they have subsequently sent me the T&C's also posted above.
IMPORTANT:- The signed application/agreement form is dated 2001 and addressed to a house I lived in at the time , the terms and conditions are not dated and I cannot be sure they are original, indeed capital one have called them reconstituted.


The second letter below from Lowells is circa 2014 and pretty much self explanatory, interesting to see I have been offered a discount , had lots of others offers as well.
I have lots and lots of letters and statements concerning this account and will have a good look to see what else I can find.


Interested in your thoughts please and happy to answer questions and post up more if required.

I have now found a further letter from Capital One circa 2010 confirming that they sent me a reconstituted copy (their words) of the original agreement...............this "agreement" is what I have posted above and what Lowells/Bryan Carter will rely on..

Capital one also wrote this in their letter
" for the avoidance of doubt, the signature page provided is a scanned copy of the signature page of your original agreement only. Included on the reverse was an extract of the terms of your original agreement( including the prescribed terms) or the full terms of your agreement, which can be referred to in the reconstituted agreement enclosed "

To my way of thinking capital one have actually admitted that they don't know what was on the reverse of the application/ agreement , it could have been an extract or the full terms. Their reconstituted full terms are 6 pages long, I think we can rule that out then !

Interested to hear if people agree on this point please .

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Capital one credit card-Lowell- Bryan carter

There's clearly a mismatch between the two column layout and the single column one containing the alleged terms. It's very possible neither were the original terms that were at the back of your application. I can't the abbreviated terms on the signature page and the ones on the two column layout are more guesswork on my part than actually reading them, are your own copies as illegible?

I can't see a letter from Mr Carter, just one from Lowell.

[Kafka]

Re: Capital one credit card-Lowell- Bryan carter

How come all your documents are lying down but they stand up when you open them?
:scared:

[Amethyst]

Re: Capital one credit card-Lowell- Bryan carter

Magic !


BlueOttter - at the bottom of the original terms sheet does it state a version number at all ? should be v5 or v6 for 2001.

Is the signature sheet and two column sheet the original agreement and the 'T&C content 2.jpg' the newer terms ( as varied ) ? The 'T&C content 2.jpg' terms aren't enlarged/retyped from the front of the signature page ( they don't match at all), and if they are stating those were on the bank there are no interest rates or anything on them?

Looking at the two column sheet - If the account was opened 2000/2001 and those are supposed to be the original terms they could be wrong as it states the default charges are £12.00 ( and the OFT didn't force c/cards to reduce charges to £12 until 2006 - plus the 2002 agreement states charges are £20 ) However it does mention something about interest rate on balance transfers after January 2002 and an interest rate ? Can't quite read it on the scan though.

So basically can you just confirm which page is meant to be what and exactly which bit they are relying on in the case please xx

[MIKE770]

Re: Capital one credit card-Lowell- Bryan carter

Magic !


BlueOttter - at the bottom of the original terms sheet does it state a version number at all ? should be v5 or v6 for 2001.

Is the signature sheet and two column sheet the original agreement and the 'T&C content 2.jpg' the newer terms ( as varied ) ? The 'T&C content 2.jpg' terms aren't enlarged/retyped from the front of the signature page ( they don't match at all), and if they are stating those were on the bank there are no interest rates or anything on them?

Looking at the two column sheet - If the account was opened 2000/2001 and those are supposed to be the original terms they could be wrong as it states the default charges are £12.00 ( and the OFT didn't force c/cards to reduce charges to £12 until 2006 - plus the 2002 agreement states charges are £20 ) However it does mention something about interest rate on balance transfers after January 2002 and an interest rate ? Can't quite read it on the scan though.

So basically can you just confirm which page is meant to be what and exactly which bit they are relying on in the case please xx

sounds like the one from 2002 of mine I received a few years ago,, similar info in the so called T&Cs.