Re: LOWELLS utility claim form

[echat11]

Thank you - yes, additions in red are better! Thank you...

Re: back billing....

Is this something worth mentioning in the defence or bringing up later?

I do recall reading something about this - can't charge for energy used over 12 months ago or something?...


Kind regards,

Paul

You can mention it if Mediation happens, also your Witness Statement further down the line.

But you need to be clear on the facts and see if they can be applied to 'back billing', 'back billing' helps when you've done everything right and the utility company has made mistakes.

Work out a time line for addresses and billing.

[PaulFitz4]

OK great - that is what I was thinking.

An issue for mediation, should it happen, as well as residence proof!

Defence deadline is 4pm Monday 16th Sept so I shall send to court via MCOL and post to Overdales Saturday.

Thank you so very much for your assistance.

Kind regards,

Paul

[PaulFitz4]

Dear Echatt,

Thank you for your help so far...

I have received an email from overdales solicitors..... and then their questionnaire response.... and now have had my questionnaire to fill out & return by 4th November....

Overdales sent this email...


Good Morning Mr xxx


I refer to the above and confirm receipt of your Defence. I have also thoroughly reviewed our records of pre-legal exchanges of which I note there were many.


You have already acknowledged, in your email of January 2022, that you did reside at address where the energy was supplied (xxx) at the material time. Your email accepted that, from July 2016 to July 2018, you lived at that address. The energy was supplied from July 2016 to July 2019. As such, it follows that you are liable for at least two thirds of the principal debt. As such, and in order to avoid further escalation, I am instructed to offer settlement in the full and final sum of £1,774.20 plus fixed costs and fees (£195.00) and interest in the amended sum of £141.94. The total money liability will be £2,111.14 and may be paid by Consent Order by way of an affordable monthly payment plan; we encourage you to make an offer of monthly payment in reply.


In the event that the matter proceeds, the above mentioned email will be exhibited to the Court and a County Court Judgment (CCJ) will be sought against you.


Kind regards,




Senior Paralegal


... This matter could have been resolved over 2 years ago - I gave them a council tax copy and a mortgage statement, however they claimed that didn't prove anything... Greed springs to mind... Hence why I have gone down the route of trying to get them to prove and supply evidence that I am the one in question...

As it appears, they now have done so, with my email, and are offering a deal of 2 thirds the amount (which is what I was proving with my evidence) plus costs.....

I don't agree to the costs - could have been sorted over 2 years ago... Plus, I didn't stay at the place much so estimated energy bills shouldn't apply...

I still have not had a response from EDF regarding information on usage and charging...

I shall fill out the questionnaire - small claims I believe - to be heard at my local court and they will attend (although they said 0 representative in their questionnaire) via teams...

Any thoughts?...

Kind regards

[echat11]

So they haven't responded to your Subject Access Request?

You need to chase them on that, so you can work out Actual usage and charging.
You could contact the current resident, see if they have actual 'opening' readings etc.

Send EDF a follow up letter, get Proof of Postage. You can use this in your Witness Statement to show they haven't complied with your request.

https://ico.org.uk/for-the-public/ge...happy-with-it/

I agree that costs should be withdrawn, you tried to resolve the matter, they weren't listening.

Directions Questionnaire, you want mediation, but they haven't provided the requested information SAR etc. You want a Hearing in person.

https://legalbeagles.info/library/gu...uestionnaire//

Also as soon as you get some facts on the readings you can make some 'Without Prejudice - Save As To Costs' offers to settle the matter, the Court won't look at the letters until after the Hearing / Judgement.

[PaulFitz4]

Thank you.

I still have not received the SAR requests...

Mediation is set for next Thursday, 28th.

Overdales have emailed suggesting I am liable for 2 thirds of the 2661 bill - thus 1,774 plus costs and fees 195 and interest 141.94... total of 2,111.14!...

So, they are now accepting that I was not in residence from 2018 to 2019 which I evidenced 2 years ago!

This works out to 887 per year!... I was hardly at the flat so would not have used that much electricity! I am currently full time in my current flat and spend 800 per year on electricity - 6 years on from then! Pretty sure energy prices have gone up so I definitely would not have spent 887 at the said flat!

The average UK bill as of 1 October 2024 is 661.50 per year!

EDF website today says 687 per year!

Do I mention without prejudice save to cost in the mediation chat?

Is there a point regarding only being charged for the last year? Back billing?

I have asked for information from EDF but nothing received!

Am I right in thinking the 6 year statute barred does not apply as I have been in contact with Overdales?

I am thinking of offering to pay £500 for each year 2016 to 2018 so = 1000 to pay off at £40 per month for 25 months but not pay any fees or interest as I did attempt to resolve this 2 years ago following the evidence requests they asked for which they then did not accept!

Is that a fair compromise?... Or am I unrealistic?

Thank you in advance...

Kind regards,

[echat11]

a) I still have not received the SAR requests...

Mediation is set for next Thursday, 28th

The SAR requests aren't relevant to CPR Rules, so won't effect your Mediation.

b) Overdales have emailed suggesting I am liable for 2 thirds of the 2661 bill - thus 1,774 plus costs and fees 195 and interest 141.94... total of 2,111.14!...

So, they are now accepting that I was not in residence from 2018 to 2019 which I evidenced 2 years ago!

So they have incorrectly billed you.

c) This works out to 887 per year!... I was hardly at the flat so would not have used that much electricity! I am currently full time in my current flat and spend 800 per year on electricity - 6 years on from then! Pretty sure energy prices have gone up so I definitely would not have spent 887 at the said flat!

The average UK bill as of 1 October 2024 is 661.50 per year!

EDF website today says 687 per year!

Do I mention without prejudice save to cost in the mediation chat?

Send them a 'Without Prejudice Save as to Costs' Offer (this must be written on the offer letter (you aren't restricted to one offer) what you are willing to pay with reasons. I agree regards interests, also minus Court costs.

d) Is there a point regarding only being charged for the last year? Back billing?

I have asked for information from EDF but nothing received!

You need actual billing information to show that EDF made errors and you did everything you should have during the 'Back Billing' period.

e) Am I right in thinking the 6 year statute barred does not apply as I have been in contact with Overdales?

For Statute Barred to apply need to meet some criteria, no payments in the last 6 years and no acknowledgement in the last 6 years.

f) I am thinking of offering to pay £500 for each year 2016 to 2018 so = 1000 to pay off at £40 per month for 25 months but not pay any fees or interest as I did attempt to resolve this 2 years ago following the evidence requests they asked for which they then did not accept!

Yes, see response (c).

You can use the template below as the structure of the letter. Omit the first line.

Add 'Without Prejudice Save as to Costs', make sure you get Proof of Postage.

https://nationaldebtline.org/get-inf...tlement-offer/

[PaulFitz4]

Dear Echatt11,

Thank you very much for this.

1 - is there a case for incorrect billing at all? - would it be overdales or EDF?... I'm guessing overdales as EDF have wiped their hands of this I presume?

If no case for incorrect bill and throw out... then -

2 - do u send the letter by post today to Overdales and mediation contact or email so it definitely arrives before Thursday afternoon mediation call?

Or - do i bring it up in the mediation chat?


After checking average annual rates for a 1 bed flat in 2017 I found on average = £621.88....

As I was hardly there, but can't prove that, I will offer 2 thirds of that = £414.58 for each year but will not pay the interest and court/admin costs as I attempted to resolve this matter 2 years ago!

This will be £829.16 - possibly a lump sum of 100 followed by £40 monthly installments....

Is that a fair offer to resolve this matter once and for all?

I have found an email from overdales with the final EDF bill up to 28 Jul 2019 all at between £150 - £200 each month from Nov 2018!!!... I wasn't even there!.... All of the amounts are 'estimated' readings apart from the last one which states 'your read'... Again, I wasn't even there! Unreal....

Do I continue to fight this or offer that settlement figure?

Kind regards,

Fitz

[tesla6518]

If you believe that you are in the right and have definative proof that you were not at the property, then why would you give them your hard earned money. You need to be able to provide the court with evidence that is capable of being checked and is unrefutable. But do double check your paperwork!!!. I am sure others will provide more detailed advice.

[PaulFitz4]

Dear Tesla6518,

I did reside at the property from July 2016 to may 2018 - I did acknowledge this 2 years ago - although I wasn't entirely sure I was paying utilities - certainly wasn't paying water!..

However, they asked for documentation to prove I was at my current address from May 2018 - council tax bill and mortgage statement - to which I provided however they said it wasn't definitive enough proof and the full amount for 3 years would stand! Hence, why I went down the root of 'prove it' letters and looking into whether I was actually responsible for the contract that I did not set up - I thought all utilities were in the rent as there was a business below and another flat above...

So long ago I can't find the rental contract...

So hands up if I am responsible for payment but then comes the question of amount....

SAR to EDF has not come back and overdales only have final bill which is extortionate with estimated charges when I was not even there!... But they have stated I gave them a reading at the end!...???

Thank you for your comments.

I do hope this thread helps others in some way...

Kind regards,

Fitz

[echat11]

I think it's part of 'Back Billing', where the meter has to be read at least once every 12 months.
So the estimated reading is not continuous and you get accurate billing.

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/what-do-if-you-get-back-bill

I'll add further to this post.

[PaulFitz4]

Hmmm...

Is there a point in challenging this as it says 'your read' however I never informed EDF of any readings!?...

So if that is on the bill - who would have done this?... The landlord?...

Therefore should they not have to check with the landlord and or the landlords lease contract?

As I say, I did not pay water rates at all and I can't find council tax payments or invoices/bills either....

Are these matters I discuss with the mediator?... Or are they not allowed to advise?...

Kind regards,

Fitz

[PaulFitz4]

G'day, here is my draft for tomorrow's mediation and without prejudice save to costs offer....

I will leave out the bits underlined as I haven't done a budget sheet to add and as for my credit reference file there is no mention of this issue on any of them at all!!??


Dear Overdales Team,



Without prejudice Save as to Costs



Account No: 282/1253450



I am getting advice from National Debtline on dealing with my financial situation and choosing the right debt solution for me.

I am writing about the money which you are claiming on the above account. I acknowledge that you now agree that I am allegedly liable for only two thirds of the amount due to not residing in the residence for the final year, plus fixed costs and fees (£195.00) and interest in the amended sum of £141.94.

I can confirm that I am unable to pay the money which I owe in full.

I am a low paid teacher with other financial constraints that I am successfully managing and have worked out a strategy to include this payment without compromising those constraints as well as current living costs.

During the dates in question in residence at the flat I was barely there and have researched that average annual electricity costs for 2018 (2016 & 2017 would be less) is £668. Two thirds of that is £445.33 (x 2 years = 890.66) which would equate to more time than I was at the flat.

Therefore, I can raise £900 of which I could pay a sum of £220 upfront plus £40 per month for 17 months and I want to offer this as full and final settlement of the account. This offer also excludes the fixed costs and fees and any interest accrued as I did attempt to resolve this matter back in 2022.

I am making this offer on the clear understanding that, if you accept it, neither you nor any associate company will take any other action to collect or enforce this debt in any way and that I will be released from any liability.

Based on my circumstances, and because these circumstances are very unlikely to improve in the future, I feel a full and final settlement is the best way to resolve the outstanding debt.

OMIT - I enclose a copy of my budget sheet which gives details of my financial circumstances. I also enclose ……

OMIT - If you accept this offer, please confirm that you will mark my credit reference agency file to show that the above account has been paid and closed.


I can pay the amount I have offered within 17 months (plus the initial £220 lump payment) of receiving your written agreement of this offer.

Please give me details of how I can pay.

I look forward to hearing from you.

(Please note, all further correspondence should be addressed to me. National Debtline are a self-help agency and are not acting as my representative).

Yours faithfully

[echat11]

You need to remove anything that relates to the National Debtline, unless you've contacted them.

[PaulFitz4]

OK, thank you