Re: LOWELLS utility claim form

[PaulFitz4]

G'day echat11,

I am currently composing a cpr31. 14 letter after AOS online as per your suggestions in a post re: Thames Water...

In the particulars there is no mention of default notice just account agreement...
Also notice of assignment of actual agreement with EDF is not there? Still ask for that (which I did not do)?

I have asked for proof of debt and residence from them 3 times in last 2 years but no evidence forwarded!

It has now come to a civil national business centre claim form received.


Any help greatly appreciated.

Kind regards,
Paul

[echat11]

Hi Paul

Welcome to LB

Fill in the following, copy and paste back to this thread (your agreement with EDF isn't covered by the CCA 1974)

Received a claim? Yes/No:
Issue Date:
Have you Acknowledged the Claim?:
Total Amount Claimed : ( approximately please do NOT use EXACT figure given on the claim form, round up to next £100 or £1000)
Claimant’s Name:
Solicitors Firm:
Original Creditor:
Original Debt (eg. Credit card/Loan/Overdraft) :
Particulars of Claim: ( Please type out in full excluding names/account numbers/exact amounts ):
Is the debt Statute Barred (have you had any contact with the creditor or claimant over the last 6 years?):
List any letters you have sent (eg: CCA/ CPR ):
Any Other Information or Background Details:


a) Send EDF a SAR request, they have 30 days to provide all the data on the account, make sure you get Proof of Postage.

https://legalbeagles.info/library/gu...ccess-request/

b) Send the solicitors a CPR 31.14 request, they have 7 days to provide the requested documentation. Ask for a copy of agreement / Terms and Conditions, Notice of Assignment and Default Notice.

https://legalbeagles.info/library/gu...-of-documents/

c) Send Lowells a letter requesting a copy of the agreement and Terms and Conditions, make sure you get Proof of Postage.

d) The following is an example Defence (remember CCA 1974, does not apply, so leave out) just have a look at it -

https://legalbeagles.info/library/gu...-court-claims/

After you've acknowledged service of the claim, you have 28 days in total from the date on the claim form to file you Defence with the Court (plus 5 days postal - you should not need this). Post an update of what you've received from Lowell's with 5 days left so we can help with your Defence.

[PaulFitz4]

G'day echat11,

Thank you very much for your response.

I aim to reply ASAP today...

I have re-read through the guidelines on fill out the AOS online and I also ticked the box to dispute the jurisdiction - which I now see I shouldn't have done!

Does that still give me the extra 14 days or do I now have to sort the jurisdiction dispute? Or can I just leave that and concentrate on the CPR & SAR letters?

Kind regards,

Paul

[echat11]

G'day echat11,

Thank you very much for your response.

I aim to reply ASAP today...

I have re-read through the guidelines on fill out the AOS online and I also ticked the box to dispute the jurisdiction - which I now see I shouldn't have done!

Does that still give me the extra 14 days or do I now have to sort the jurisdiction dispute? Or can I just leave that and concentrate on the CPR & SAR letters?

Kind regards,

Paul

I'm not sure if it's possible or not, but give the Court a call, see if they can add notes to say that was 'ticked' in error. The Acknowledge of Service should be fine, again confirm that with the Court, so you can get the CPR / SAR requests off.

[PaulFitz4]

Thank you I shall call shortly...


Received a claim? Yes/No: YES
Issue Date: 12/08/24
Have you Acknowledged the Claim?: YES
Total Amount Claimed : £3000
Claimant’s Name: LOWELLS PORTFOLIO I LTD
Solicitors Firm: OVERDALES SOLICITORS
Original Creditor: EDF
Original Debt (eg. Credit card/Loan/Overdraft) : ENERGY/ELECTRICITY
Particulars of Claim:

THE CLAIM IS DUE FOR THE SUM OF XXX DUE BY THE DEFENDANT UNDER A EDF ENERGY CUSTOMERS PLC ACCOUNT WITH AN ACCOUNT REFERENCE OF XXX XXX THE DEFENDANT FAILED TO MAINTAIN CONTRACTUAL PAYMENTS REQUIRED UNDER THE TERMS OF THE ACCOUNT AGREEMENT
THE DEBT WAS LEGALLY ASSIGNED TO THE CLAIMANT ON 10-12-20,NOTICE OF WHICH HAS BEEN GIVEN TO THE DEFENDANT.
THE CLAIM INCLUDES STATUTORY INTEREST UNDER S. 69 OF THE COUNTY COURTS ACT 1984 AT A RATE OF 8% PER ANNUM FROM THE DATE OF ASSIGNMENT TO THE DATE OF ISSUE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS IN THE SUM XXXX
THE CLAIMANT CLAIMS THE SUM OF XXXX

( Please type out in full excluding names/account numbers/exact amounts ):

Is the debt Statute Barred (have you had any contact with the creditor or claimant over the last 6 years?): NO - I HAVE BEEN IN CONTACT WITH THE SENDING 'PROOF OF DEBT' LETTERS...

List any letters you have sent (eg: CCA/ CPR ):
Any Other Information or Background Details:

I INITIALLY DISPUTED THIS AS IT WAS STATING A DEBT FROM 2016 - 2019 - I WAS REGISTERED LIVING ELSEWHERE FROM 2018 AND SENT THEM COUNCIL TAX BILL, MORTGAGE STATEMENT TO WHICH THEY REPLIED WAS NOT ACCEPTABLE - I THE WENT DOWN THE ROUTE OF 'HAVE YOU ACTUALLY GOT THE RIGHT PERSON? CAN YOU SEND PROOF THAT I AM THE PERSON IN QUESTION!
IN MAY THE SENT ANOTHER LETTER OF CLAIM (REGULAR 6 MONTH ACTION FOR LAST 3 YEARS) - THIS ONE I DI NOT REPLY WITH A' PROOF OF DEBT' LETTER AND NOW IT HAS GONE TO COURT.....

SO I WISH TO ACCESS ALL THEIR DOCUMENTS AND WILL BE SENDING SAR's TO EDF, LOWELLS & OVERDALES I THINK!

PLEASE SEE DRAFT OF CPR 31.14


Dear Sirs,

Claim Number: L8KQ8Z64

Request for documents mentioned in a statement of case under CPR 31.14



On 12/08/2024 I received a County Court claim from yourselves of which I have acknowledged receipt indicating my intention to defend in full.

To enable me to file my defence and/or counterclaim, I require inspection of documents you mention in your statement of case ahead of filing my defence on 09/08/2024.



1. Agreement with EDF

2. All terms & conditions relevant to the agreement

3. Copies of any bills sent by EDF during the alleged time period

4. A detailed breakdown of the alleged liability remaining outstanding for payment

5. A copy of the Final Account with EDF

6. Documentation of contractual payments made to the account 671088660088

7. Documentation of failure to maintain contractual payments required under the terms of the account agreement

8. Proof of residency/tenancy during the dates of the alleged account agreement



In accordance with CPR 31.15(c) I undertake to be responsible for your reasonable copying costs incurred in complying with this CPR 31.14 request.

You should note that this claim has not yet been allocated to a specific track and the provisions of CPR 27(2) are of no effect. Had your claim not been issued through CCBC the Claimant would have been obliged to attach copies of the documentation upon which it relies to the Particulars of Claim.

I, as Defendant, am entitled to see the documents on which the Claimant relies and which you must produce at trial. Disclosure at this stage will enable me to fully plead my case and further the Overriding Objective.

You should ensure compliance with your CPR 31 duties and ensure that the document(s) I have requested are copied to and received by me within 7 days of receiving this letter.

If you require more time in which to comply with this request you must tell me in writing and confirm your agreement to an extension of the time allowed for me to file my defence as allowed under CPR 15.5 so I may notify the court.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Yours sincerely


Thank you for looking over this - I may have included actions that I have no jurisdiction to and may be a matter for court or mediation?

Many thanks,
Paul

[PaulFitz4]

I'm not sure if it's possible or not, but give the Court a call, see if they can add notes to say that was 'ticked' in error. The Acknowledge of Service should be fine, again confirm that with the Court, so you can get the CPR / SAR requests off.


Thanks...

Rang and spoke to courts - don't really need to do anything but can send an email to explain ammendment to the AOS if I wish!

AOS all good and have until 4pm Monday 16th September to file defence!

Bank Holiday weekend so shall not stress and get on to that on Tuesday!

Thank you for your help.

Kind regards,

Paul

[echat11]

I'm not sure if it's possible or not, but give the Court a call, see if they can add notes to say that was 'ticked' in error. The Acknowledge of Service should be fine, again confirm that with the Court, so you can get the CPR / SAR requests off.


Thanks...

Rang and spoke to courts - don't really need to do anything but can send an email to explain ammendment to the AOS if I wish!

AOS all good and have until 4pm Monday 16th September to file defence!

Bank Holiday weekend so shall not stress and get on to that on Tuesday!

Thank you for your help.

Kind regards,

Paul

Good.

Don't use blocks of capital letters, difficult to read.

[PaulFitz4]

Hello,

Just wanting to double check that the requests in the CPR draft are OK before I print and mail it today!

Kind regards,

Paul

[echat11]

Hello,

Just wanting to double check that the requests in the CPR draft are OK before I print and mail it today!

Kind regards,

Paul

It should really just be the things they referred to in their PoC. I would stick with those.

'THE CLAIM IS DUE FOR THE SUM OF XXX DUE BY THE DEFENDANT UNDER A EDF ENERGY CUSTOMERS PLC ACCOUNT WITH AN ACCOUNT REFERENCE OF XXX XXX THE DEFENDANT FAILED TO MAINTAIN CONTRACTUAL PAYMENTS REQUIRED UNDER THE TERMS OF THE ACCOUNT AGREEMENT
THE DEBT WAS LEGALLY ASSIGNED TO THE CLAIMANT ON 10-12-20,NOTICE OF WHICH HAS BEEN GIVEN TO THE DEFENDANT.
THE CLAIM INCLUDES STATUTORY INTEREST UNDER S. 69 OF THE COUNTY COURTS ACT 1984 AT A RATE OF 8% PER ANNUM FROM THE DATE OF ASSIGNMENT TO THE DATE OF ISSUE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS IN THE SUM XXXX
THE CLAIMANT CLAIMS THE SUM OF XXXX'

[PaulFitz4]

Hello,

Thank you for your help so far .... much appreciated.

I have received a response from Overdales solicitors

Stating the Lowell reference, EDF reference, account opening date on 23rd July 2016 (which I explicitly did not do!) ....

They also state there was a 'last payment received by the original creditor of £50 on 8th March 2017 and the supply ended on 28th July 2019.'

They have noted my request for DSAR and have passed that on to the relevant department and a response will be sent in due course.

They have explained ...'this debt does not arise under an agreement for credit and therefore it is not regulated by the CCA 1974 ..[.thus.].. original creditor not required to retain a copy of the agreement, if it was in writing, and therefore we are unable to obtain a copy,,, If the matter proceeds, we may ask the court to accept that there was a contract based on other evidence that may be available. Accounts of this type can be obtained by telephone, over the internet and therefore it is possible that no signed contract ever existed, or that this was entered into by electronic signature online.'

There is also a copy of the final electricity bill attached - which is dated from 10 November 2018 - 28 July 2019 including their readings against estimated readings (their readings are lower) ... and final reading stating estimates lower than 'YOUR' readings .... I was on record residing elsewhere during that period!!!???

They have not responded to my requests for proof or evidence of my residence at the alleged address...

I have also received an email from Lowell acknowledging my 'privacy request' and will respond no later than one month from the request ....


There is an online portal however I think it prudent to await the hard documents???

I have not received anything from EDF as of yet ...


I shall look at drafting a defense letter tomorrow after work and after processing this information ....


Thank you in advance for any assistance you may be able to lend.

Kind regards,

Paul

[echat11]

You need to get evidence of this 'I was on record residing elsewhere during that period!!!???'

Copy and paste your defence without personal details when you've done it.

[PaulFitz4]

G'day,

Yes - I have a council tax bill with my name on and a mortgage statement that I'm sure I sent to them back in 2021 but can't find the record of it....?

And I'm sure they replied saying it was not enough evidence.....

That's why I went down the route of asking them for proof of debt and proof that I was actually residing at the alleged address!

I shall draft a defence tonight.

Thank you

[PaulFitz4]

Good evening,,,,

Please see a draft of defence ....

I have not included any request for proof of residence at this point ....

Thank you in advance for your time ...




In the Civil National Business Centre

Claim No: [XXXXX]



Lowell Portfolio I LTD

Claimant

And



Paul F xxxxxxxx

Defendant

DEFENCE

1.The Defendant received the claim #xxxxxxxx from the Civil National Business Centre on 12 August 2024

2.Each and every allegation in the Claimants statement of case is denied unless specifically admitted in this Defence.

3.This claim appears to be for outstanding utility bills (electricity) for the period 23 July 2016 to 28 July 2019.

4.It is denied that the defendant opened the account or entered into an agreement with the original claimant to supply electricity to the address during the period stated by the claimant's Solicitor in response to CPR 31.14 request.

5.The Claimants statement of case fails to give adequate information to enable me to properly assess my position with regards to the claim.

6.The Claimant’s Particulars of Claim fail to state when the original agreement was entered into.

***7. .... can not be statute barred as I have been in contact with Overdales out of fear of prosecution .... wish I had sought advice initially!!!!!!

7.The Claimants statement of case states that the account was assigned from EDF Energy to Lowell Portfolio I LTD on 10 December 2020. The Defendant does not recall receiving notice of this assignment.

8.On the 30 August 2024 The Defendant sent a request for inspection of documents mentioned in the claimant’s statement of case under Civil Procedure Rule 31.14 to Overdales Solicitors. I requested the Claimant provide copies of the Service Agreement, Terms and Conditions, copies of any bills sent by the original claimant, detalied breakdown of alleged liability remaining outstanding, copy of the final account with the original claimant, contractual payments made, documentation of failure to maintain contractual payments under the terms of the account agreement as per the Particulars of Claim.



9.Claimant's Solicitor has not sent any of these documents to the Defendant apart from the final account and breakdown of alleged last 8 months.



10.On the 30 August 2024 The Defendant sent a DSAR to EDF, Overdales Solicitors and Lowell Portfolio I LTD. There has been no response from EDF. Overdales Solicitors have passed to the relevant department. Lowell Portfolio have emailed they will respond within 30 days.

11.Under Civil Procedure Rule 16.5 (4) Where the claim includes a money claim, a defendant shall be taken to require that any allegation relating to the amount of money claimed be proved unless he expressly admits the allegation. Therefore, it is expected that the Claimant be required to prove the allegation that the money is owed as claimed.

12.The Defendant respectfully requests the court orders the Claimants to provide the necessary documentation in order for The Defendant to fully plead his case else the Claim should stand struck out.

13.In the event that the relevant documents are received from the Claimant, the Defendant will then be in a position to amend his defence, and would ask that the Claimants bear the costs of the amendment.

14.It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief as claimed or at all.

Statement of Truth

I believe that the facts stated in this defence are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.

Signed xxxxxxxxxxx

Dated 13/09/2024

[echat11]

a) Read through it several times, correct it if you need to. You can file it with the Court via MCOL. You could send it to Overdales, make sure you get Proof of Postal.

b) Back billing Rules may apply - ***7. .... can not be statute barred as I have been in contact with Overdales out of fear of prosecution .... wish I had sought advice initially!!!!!!


In the Civil National Business Centre

Claim No: [XXXXX]

Lowell Portfolio I LTD

Claimant

And

Paul F xxxxxxxx

Defendant

DEFENCE

1. The Defendant received the claim #xxxxxxxx from the Civil National Business Centre on 12 August 2024

2. Each and every allegation in the Claimants statement of case is denied unless specifically admitted in this Defence.

3. This claim appears to be for outstanding utility service, electricity billing.

4. It is denied that the defendant opened the account or entered into an agreement with the original claimant to supply electricity to the address during the period stated by the Claimant.

5. The Claimants statement of case fails to give adequate information to enable me to properly assess my position with regards to the claim.

6. The Claimant’s Particulars of Claim fail to state when the original agreement was entered into.

7. The Claimant's statement of case states that the account was assigned from EDF Energy to Lowell Portfolio I LTD on 10 December 2020. The Defendant does not recall receiving notice of this assignment.

8. On the 30 August 2024 The Defendant sent a request for inspection of documents mentioned in the claimant’s statement of case under Civil Procedure Rule 31.14 to Overdales Solicitors. I requested the Claimant provide copies of the Service Agreement, Terms and Conditions, copies of any bills sent by the original claimant, detailed breakdown of alleged liability remaining outstanding, copy of the final account with the original claimant, contractual payments made, documentation of failure to maintain contractual payments under the terms of the account agreement as per the Particulars of Claim.

9. Claimant's Solicitor has not sent any of these documents to the Defendant apart from the final account and breakdown of alleged last 8 months.

10. On the 30 August 2024 The Defendant sent a DSAR to EDF, Overdales Solicitors and Lowell Portfolio I LTD. There has been no response from EDF. Overdales Solicitors have passed to the relevant department. Lowell Portfolio have emailed they will respond within 30 days.

11.Overdales Solicitors has not sent any of these documents to the Defendant.

12. Under Civil Procedure Rule 16.5 (4) Where the claim includes a money claim, a defendant shall be taken to require that any allegation relating to the amount of money claimed be proved unless he expressly admits the allegation. Therefore, it is expected that the Claimant be required to prove the allegation that the money is owed as claimed.

13. The Defendant respectfully requests the court orders the Claimants to provide the necessary documentation in order for The Defendant to fully plead his case else the Claim should stand struck out.

14. In the event that the relevant documents are received from the Claimant, the Defendant will then be in a position to amend his defence, and would ask that the Claimants bear the costs of the amendment.

15. It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief as claimed or at all.

Statement of Truth

I believe that the facts stated in this defence are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.

Signed xxxxxxxxxxx

Dated 13/09/2024

[PaulFitz4]

Thank you - yes, additions in red are better! Thank you...

Re: back billing....

Is this something worth mentioning in the defence or bringing up later?

I do recall reading something about this - can't charge for energy used over 12 months ago or something?...


Kind regards,

Paul