DCM Money Solutions - In administration

[rednelly]

Re: DCM Money Solutions - In administration

25th Feb - IVAs boost profits for ClearDebt | Manchester Evening News - menmedia.co.uk


Some useful info.

Debt Management Guidance for DMCs. - http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/bus...ces/oft366.pdf

Using a commercial DMC? http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/App...ce/oft1048.pdf

DRF - Debt Resolution Forum - (Cleardebt are members) The Debt Resolution Forum

DEMSA - DEMSA - Debt Managers Standards Association (approved COP http://www.demsa.co.uk/wp-content/up..._no_banner.pdf)

Can I suggest you also add DRF's standards - which are currently going through the OFT's codes approval process.

And, DRF's consumer complaints process - fully independent, majority of lay members and chaired by the Chief Money Advisor at Advice UK.

[Jacqueline Cohen]

Re: DCM Money Solutions - In administration

Hi all

I've seen all the latest threads on the DCM worries and can re-iterate the facts Andrew has been saying.

Clear Debt Solutions are a completely separate company to us.

Regarding Darren Bott - he is no longer connected to Abacus (Financial Consultants) Ltd and hasn't been some time. Andrew will be commenting on this further for you.

Our staff here will always advise on every solution for someone calling in and would never stear someone towards a solution unless it was believed to be the most appropriate one for them. We do not apply pressure selling.

You might want to check out some of our reviews on IVA Comparison Site - Compare IVA Plans & IVA Firms | IVA.com - I know this is ivas as well - but it's a useful site which shows how current clients review us as a company. The site is impartial and we have no connection to it.

Hope this helps.

[rednelly]

Re: DCM Money Solutions - In administration

[QUOTE=Amethyst;204318]''ABACUS SENIORMANAGEMENT
Darren Bott (aged 31), Operations Director
Darren is the operations director of Abacus with responsibility for the day to day running of Abacus,
including responsibility for training and managing the company’s telesales sta¡ and back-o⁄ce systems. He
has had a number of sales roles, including over four years at debt management company Gregory
Pennington Limited. He founded a debt management company, Understanding Finance Limited, in 2002,
with the help of Daniel Morris. Due to the success of Understanding Finance Limited, its business was
transferred to Abacus in December 2003 and Darren simultaneously became a 50 per cent. shareholder in
Abacus.''

Mr Bott is no longer a director of any company in the ClearDebt Group. He is no longer employed with the ClearDebt Group nor has any association with ClearDebt in any way.

ClearDebt's association with Mr Bott officially terminated on 15 June 2009 - but he had not been working with us for some months prior to that.

[Amethyst]

Re: DCM Money Solutions - In administration

25th Feb - IVAs boost profits for ClearDebt | Manchester Evening News - menmedia.co.uk


Some useful info.

Debt Management Guidance for DMCs. - http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/bus...ces/oft366.pdf

Using a commercial DMC? http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/App...ce/oft1048.pdf

DRF - Debt Resolution Forum - (Cleardebt are members) The Debt Resolution Forum

DEMSA - DEMSA - Debt Managers Standards Association (approved COP http://www.demsa.co.uk/wp-content/up..._no_banner.pdf)

[Amethyst]

Re: DCM Money Solutions - In administration

''ABACUS SENIORMANAGEMENT
Darren Bott (aged 31), Operations Director
Darren is the operations director of Abacus with responsibility for the day to day running of Abacus,
including responsibility for training and managing the company’s telesales sta¡ and back-o⁄ce systems. He
has had a number of sales roles, including over four years at debt management company Gregory
Pennington Limited. He founded a debt management company, Understanding Finance Limited, in 2002,
with the help of Daniel Morris. Due to the success of Understanding Finance Limited, its business was
transferred to Abacus in December 2003 and Darren simultaneously became a 50 per cent. shareholder in
Abacus.''


Is that still the case? No offence meant to Mr Bott, as people make mistakes or hook up with the wrong people and then turn themselves around, but he is linked with a couple of firms who haven't had quite the same principles as ClearDebt appear to have, mainly Kerobo and if you have a look at threads on here and MSE you'll see a number of different issues with Kerobo) Then of course theres historics with various companies sprining up from the ruins of failed Claims Management Companies (big example being Grass Roots from the ashes of Cartel Client Review)


Cleardebts announcements on DCM/Apex do not mention Abacus ?

It is things like that which feed the mistrust of the industry.


When a client is in a DMP through cleardebt and a company doesn't accept or accepts for a while and then gets shot of the debt to a DCA or decides to take its own action and a court claim comes through the clients door - what does Cleardebt do/advise the client ?

That appears to be one of the issues a number of clients have experienced with Apex, and other DMCs, including CCCS I might add.

From a personal view CCCS were pretty useless and basically told me to enter an admission and let it get rubberstamped through Northampton court - despite having been making payments on my DMP for a year. Thankfully I was a little more aware that the claimants had no right to just add a near £2k collection charge to the account so successfully defended that part of the claim but still came out with an installment order (same amount I had been paying through CCCS) but secured with a charging order.

The rest of the service from CCCS (have been with them 5 years and have just cleared everything) was excellent. It didn't cost me a bean, 100% of my payments went to the creditors and only that one creditor (out of about 12) took court action.

I'll let Latchkey and Nibbler respond to your comment on the training side of the free advice charities.

[rednelly]

Re: DCM Money Solutions - In administration

Hi,

I'm doing this from a clunky smartphone, so apologies if this ends up full of misstypes or if I forget any of the points raised since last I posted.

First, we are completely unconnected with ClearDebt solutions Ltd.

Second, Abacus is a wholly-owned subsidiary of ClearDebt Group and is responsible for the administration of debt management plans.

Then, we always advise on the complete range of solutions and will recommend bankruptcy and DRO if appropriate. We also draw attention to sources of free advice, as does any compliant debt resolution company.

Yes, our fee charging DMPs, are going to be more expensive than those offered by creditor funded or taxpayer-funded organisations. But, we often achieve interest rate freezes (by no means always, I have to admit) and we do make distributions, which some debtors find challenging. We are also there to help at a time when the non fee chargers admit they can only deal with half Britain's demand for debt services.

I would hope (and expect) that if we were approached by someone who could afford to repay all they owe we would tell them so. Certainly, many of our website enquirers are "Solvent but worried".

I am glad people are exercising their cynicism here: my industry needs that as part of the process of establishing public trust that we are going through right now.

But, what's actually wrong with providing good advice and service and attaching a price tag to it?

Remember, a lot of debtors can afford advice (really - I know it sounds odd, but it is true) and they benefit from it (so do their creditors). Why shouldn't they pay for it, leaving taxpayers money to be focussed on those for whom advice and help is completely unaffordable.

That presumes also that free advice is always going to be good advice. Whilst the free sector has specialised, trained advisors, it also has many volunteers who could benefit from the full time experience and 210 hours study held by many advisors employed by fee-charging firms (and all of ours).

Night all

[Amethyst]

Re: DCM Money Solutions - In administration

Post from an MSE user which I hope they won't mind me copying over for people who find this thread first.

Hi all

Just to keep you all posted.

I spoke to the CCCS about half an hour ago; their advice was, according to the figures I gave them, and the amount I now earned, the best advice, FOR ME, was to take a deep breath and resume contractual monthly payments with the creditors. She said they were always there if we needed help, but really a DMP would probably not be the best course of action for me.

I am NOT going to Cleardebt- I can't trust again- no way.

CCCS were lovely- very helpful, very practical, and I advise ANYONE who may be considering Cleardebt- please please speak to the free ones first; I know that Cleardebt are offering the plans free of charge, but just see what's out there first. You'll be glad you did.

Ok. I'll be hitting the phone on Monday then....

[pompeyfaith]

Re: DCM Money Solutions - In administration

Going by the website designs they look to be different but to be really sure I'd say the best place to check is companies house

[Amethyst]

Re: DCM Money Solutions - In administration

Bit of info on Cleardebt is on their site http://www.cleardebtgroup.co.uk/down...ember_2010.pdf and also on Companies House WebCHeck - Select and Access Company Information . Cleardebtsolutions is a different company.


It is nice to see they are open with their accounts (though I haven't checked them against Co House lodged docs).
It mentions their acquisition of Abacus - rings a bell actually.

Edit: Yip, '' Darren Bott is no longer director of Abacus Financial Consultants since 16/6/09 after it was bought out by Cleardebt.''

Ravenstone house again.


Cleardebt peeps - is Abacus arm running the DMPs as it was in Dec 2010 according to the interim report) or is that no longer in operation ?

[Garlok]

Re: DCM Money Solutions - In administration

Hi All,

May I just ask a simple question please. Is this "Cleardebt" company anything to do with "cleardebtsolutions limited"? About whom a I made a post on another thread. If they are then i can fil in some further information, if not ignore this post.

regards
Garlok.

[Amethyst]

Re: DCM Money Solutions - In administration

Hi Rednelly, Don't get me wrong, it is to be commended that you are waiving all set up and monthly fees for past clients of Apex - so all the money they pay goes directly to their creditors. I understand from reading clients stories of their experiences with Apex that yes, indeed some of these would have been much better off with an alternative to a DMP, like a DRO, Bankruptcy or indeed an IVA.

Regarding the ''fairshare'' contribution that CCCS charge creditors, it is kind of swings and roundabouts isn't it...if fee charging DMC's were not fee charging then 100% of the clients DMP payments would go to the creditors - as may be the case now with your waive on fees - however ''normally'' fee charging DMCs take what ? 15-20% of the money before it gets distributed to creditors, as well in many cases as the first one or two months payments in full....so really the creditors are getting more through CCCS with the estimated 10% fairshare contribution than from clients using the fee charging DMCs.

Just thought the other side of that equation needed showing.

Ame
xx

[Latch Key Kid]

Re: DCM Money Solutions - In administration

Hi rednelly

Welcome to the forum -

Reading your post I was just wondering if any of the Apex clients may be better off taking the bankruptcy or Debt Relief Order route.

Forgive me for asking this, its just that from reading your post there does not seem to be any mention of these formal remedies, the emphasis just seems to be on IVAs in my opinion.

Apologies if I come across a little cynical.

[rednelly]

Re: DCM Money Solutions - In administration

Thanks Jacqueline.

I am cynical by nature, so will still recommend clients use a free service. I'm sure we will receive feedback whether a high proportion of transferred clients end up on IVA's and whether an IVA is actually the best course of action for the clients.

Just for information

Hi, I am another ClearDebt rep (happy to be identified - but the sign up says I shouldn't use a real name).

I'm jumping in here to try and address some of these concerns, not just for my company, but for that part of the fee-charging debt management sector that is doing its utmost to raise standards and to create a trusted industry. There are loads of issues here i know (and I'm happy to have robust discussions on all of them - but I won't try to go too far off-topic here).

First - the "free service" CCCS charge a "fairshare" contribution of, I believe, around 10% to creditors. So, creditors of ex-Apex clients in our plans will get higher returns from those than they would from CCCS. This may affect the creditors' future attitudes to proposals from the client. Note "may" I'm cynical too .

Now, as to whether the IVA is the best course of action. You can be as cynical as you like here... Apex didn't offer IVAs. They offered dodgy "full and final" DMPs. Across the industry debt resolution companies find around one in six DMPs should be an IVA (and, IVAs write of about half a person's debt if they manage to make all the payment - plus all the interest that would otherwise accumulate). So, it is highly likely the the most appropriate advice for many of Apex's ex-clients will be an IVA - it will make them debt-free faster, though they will have to work at it.

I am highly confident that if we advise an IVA, we will be giving the right advice: Not only are our advisors experienced (yes, I would say that - wouldn't I) but they all have the Certificate in Debt Resolution (CertDR) which means they've done around 210 hours study and passed three exams in the course of a year or so. Its an advanced BTEC and properly accredited by EdExcel. So, if we advise and IVA it will be advice confidently given on the basis of knowledge and experience.

Then, like most other reputable IVA providers, we charge protocol compliant fees. Like CCCS. So, no difference there then. And no difference in the contribution a debtor will be asked to make each month - because we use the same guidelines for assessing income and expenditure.

If there's a difference for the debtor, it's probably only in the quality of administration - and I'm quietly confident we can hold our head high there.

An IVA provides affordability, certainty and predictability - but it is five years (sometimes more, rarely less) hard work. for a debtor.

[Amethyst]

Re: DCM Money Solutions - In administration

Thanks Jacqueline.

I am cynical by nature, so will still recommend clients use a free service. I'm sure we will receive feedback whether a high proportion of transferred clients end up on IVA's and whether an IVA is actually the best course of action for the clients.

Just for information

If you want to know if an IVA is suitable for you, you can use our online debt counselling service, CCCS Debt Remedy, which will provide you with the most appropriate solution to your debt problem. Alternatively contact our free Helpline on 0800 138 1111.

[pompeyfaith]

Re: DCM Money Solutions - In administration

Which is why I did it, I'm sure MSE will be ok with that as it is after all helping people out of a sticky mess.

And as you say you are offering your services free to DCM CLIENTS so no money is being made.

Like you I hope I only want what is best for those consumers because to be stung once is bad enough so really hope they get the right advice so they do not get stung again