Received 14 Day 'Court Proceedings' Letter from Shoosmiths/Arrow Global LTD

[slickshoes]

I've just spent a good long while reading everything close to my situation, but with the little things, I thought it best to ask directly. It could also help someone in the same situation, which is nice.

So here's the story:

Apparently I left my HSBC account in the negative before moving away to Australia in March '12.

I came back to this country about two years ago, to a completely new address.

Around six months ago, I applied for and received an Amex credit card. Then, a few weeks ago, I received a letter from Shoosmiths Re: HSBC plc - (Current Account Overdraft) Balance: 607.46. I will attempt to attach a photo of this letter.

I left it to see what would happen, and today (after coming back from LA) I found a letter dated 29th August stating 'If we cannot agree during the next 14 days how you will repay the amount outstanding to Arrow Global Limited, we will issue Court Proceedings against you for the full sum outstanding, etc. Also attempted to attach.

What are my options?

Additional Info:

- I wouldn't be against paying, unless advised not to. With paying it, I'd be worried I might open myself up to another (see below*) and with not paying it, I'd be worried about a CCJ or something on my file, reducing my ability to get credit in the future. Whichever is least likely would be nice.
- *I believe (I could be wrong) that there's another, more significant debt on my file that I would definitely not like to bring to light. I would check my credit file, but again, I don't want to chance it.
- The fact that the 6 years is up in just over half a year (potentially) pains me.
- Unless they can take my Amex away from me (Can they?)- I don't need credit for anything for 2-3 years. 6 years would be a killer though.

What are you guys' thoughts?

[slickshoes]

Re: Received 14 Day 'Court Proceedings' Letter from Shoosmiths/Arrow Global LTD

Any thoughts on this, guys?

If I offer them part payment, I could pay it immediately - would that bring any negative consequences? I.e Credit file or other debt being brought to light. The other debt was with Natwest.

Additional Information:

- I leave the country for around two years in a month's time.
- The address they currently have for me, which is the address with which I applied for my current credit card is my mother's, as I have no fixed place in this country.
- As far as residency goes, I'm a British Citizen, never having had any other residency. (I'm a traveller).

Thanks guys!

[Debt Camel]

Re: Received 14 Day 'Court Proceedings' Letter from Shoosmiths/Arrow Global LTD

- *I believe (I could be wrong) that there's another, more significant debt on my file that I would definitely not like to bring to light. I would check my credit file, but again, I don't want to chance it.

One debt collector has found you. There is no reason to think another one won't.

The fact that the 6 years is up in just over half a year (potentially) pains me.

a) so? this doesn't really change what your options are

b) anyway the date an overdraft becomes statute barred on is not simple. It won't be 6 years from the date you left the country. Sup[pose you had gone for just a few months, you would be quite cross if you came back and found you bank account, with a low overdraft, perfectly manageable, had been defaulted...

Unless they can take my Amex away from me (Can they?)- I don't need credit for anything for 2-3 years. 6 years would be a killer though.

A credit card company can reduce your limit at any time. Some cards are starting to do routine monthly checks on people's credit records, so they could pick up if a CCJ had been added. I'm not saying that Amex will do this but it can't be ruled out.

[slickshoes]

Re: Received 14 Day 'Court Proceedings' Letter from Shoosmiths/Arrow Global LTD

One debt collector has found you. There is no reason to think another one won't.

Of course, man! I was asking if paying this one off will increase the likelihood of that happening, or keep it the same.



a) so? this doesn't really change what your options are

I know - it's similar to someone saying "if you'd kept walking in that desert another 3 miles, you would have found a water spring" when they'd died! hah. It doesn't change anything, but pains me nonetheless- it wasn't a useful piece of info, just a comment.

b) anyway the date an overdraft becomes statute barred on is not simple. It won't be 6 years from the date you left the country. Sup[pose you had gone for just a few months, you would be quite cross if you came back and found you bank account, with a low overdraft, perfectly manageable, had been defaulted...

Yeah, I thought that- I'd check my credit file but.. y'know! Irrelevant anyway, as I wasn't expecting the SB timing to help at all anyway.

A credit card company can reduce your limit at any time. Some cards are starting to do routine monthly checks on people's credit records, so they could pick up if a CCJ had been added. I'm not saying that Amex will do this but it can't be ruled out.

Ok, interesting to know!

All of those things are the more irrelevant parts to my question, though I do appreciate the reply, man! Do you have any advice or thoughts on the more specific aspects?

To sum up, this would be the main (or, first) question:

If I arrange a sum to pay with them, then pay it, will this increase the likelihood of the other debt coming to light, or not change the likelihood? And what other potential drawbacks are there of paying it off?

[Amethyst]

Re: Received 14 Day 'Court Proceedings' Letter from Shoosmiths/Arrow Global LTD

If you come to a full and final settlement figure agreement with them, get it in writing before paying - it would be marked as settled on your file ( if it still shows, it will fall off after 6 years from the original default marker ), but no, other than being irritated they didn't let you get to statute barred, and overpaying for HSBC's charges, there's no bad consequences of getting a debt settled. The other debt will pop up at some point regardless, if that's also possibly coming up to stat barred, then likely sooner rather than later.

How much of the overdraft is actual spends and how much charges? Sounds like it could be mainly charges so it might have sat their growing for a couple years before the defaulted you - really depends on the term and if you want to argue the charges ?( if you left the account thinking it was at 0 and was only a couple quid overdrawn, I'd be pretty pished to be being chased for £600+ now !)

[slickshoes]

Re: Received 14 Day 'Court Proceedings' Letter from Shoosmiths/Arrow Global LTD

If you come to a full and final settlement figure agreement with them, get it in writing before paying - it would be marked as settled on your file ( if it still shows, it will fall off after 6 years from the original default marker ), but no, other than being irritated they didn't let you get to statute barred, and overpaying for HSBC's charges, there's no bad consequences of getting a debt settled. The other debt will pop up at some point regardless, if that's also possibly coming up to stat barred, then likely sooner rather than later.

Thanks so much for your help! That's kind of what I was thinking of doing. Quick question - if I negotiate a reduced payment, does that all have to be paid at once? Or can it be instalments? Not too much of an issue, but the option would be lovely.

Also, what's a good figure to go in with? 50%? 25%? 75%? I have no idea whatsoever. I know it's relatively subjective.

How much of the overdraft is actual spends and how much charges? Sounds like it could be mainly charges so it might have sat their growing for a couple years before the defaulted you - really depends on the term and if you want to argue the charges ?( if you left the account thinking it was at 0 and was only a couple quid overdrawn, I'd be pretty pished to be being chased for £600+ now !)

Yeah, I really don't know. Couldn't even guess. Ah, to be young, carefree and naive again.

Last question - only through writing is the way to go, right? I can't give them a call and feel them out first..? hah

Thanks again!

[slickshoes]

Re: Received 14 Day 'Court Proceedings' Letter from Shoosmiths/Arrow Global LTD

Also, I just found this example for a letter to send for F&F negotiations.

To be honest, I'm much better at negotiating on the phone, though I know it has to be in writing. Am I able to sort it out over the phone with them and then confirm in writing?

Example Letter:

The Loan Company
Company House,
Church Street,
Newtown,
Kent,
R1 7HG

WITHOUT PREJUDICE:

Dear Sir/Madam

Re: Card Account 1234567812345678

I write with reference to the money which you are claiming on the above account.

I can confirm that I am unable to offer to pay the money which I owe in full.

A relative is prepared to offer me £xxxx. I want to offer this sum as an ex-gratia payment, in full and final settlement of the account. The offer from my relative will not be available forever and my relative will not make the payment unless the offer is accepted.

This offer is made on the clear understanding that, if accepted, neither you nor any associate company will take any other action to enforce or pursue this debt in any way whatsoever and that I will be released for any liability. I also request that, if accepted, you will make an entry on a credit reference agency file relating to the above account as "satisfied" in full.

Payment can be made within 14 days of receiving your written agreement of this offer and method of payment.

I look forward to receiving your reply.

Yours faithfully

[Amethyst]

Re: Received 14 Day 'Court Proceedings' Letter from Shoosmiths/Arrow Global LTD

Thanks again!

They bought it at something like 10% so if you can get it settled in lump sum I'd probably go in at 30% but expect to go up to 50/60%.. if you want instalments you're probably having to look at the full amount or nigh on.

I've just arranged to settle one with them for £500 lump sum on a £900 debt ... but we'd gone a fair way down court proceedings already and they'd just provided all the documents ... it was a recent debt so we were really just delaying things while we sorted finances out to be able to pay it off. That's just me and liking the path of least hassle though xxx oh that was by phone, and they're sending through in writing before we make the payment - that's important ! Let you know how that goes...

I'm not saying settling is the right thing to do btw, just trying to help with your thought process xxx

[Amethyst]

Re: Received 14 Day 'Court Proceedings' Letter from Shoosmiths/Arrow Global LTD

Just saw this

"leave the country for around two years in a month's time. "

Depending what that other debt is ... how much etc, you don't want to come back after two years to find you have a default judgment while you've been away.... would make the sorting out of the HSBC overdraft debt feel a bit pointless.

Think I might get checking my credit file to see if there is any sign of it and be proactive in sorting it rather than crossing fingers for next couple years.

[slickshoes]

Re: Received 14 Day 'Court Proceedings' Letter from Shoosmiths/Arrow Global LTD

Just negotiated on the phone.

"200"
"500"
"250"
"...500."
"... Okay, I'll just pay in instalments"

[Amethyst]

Re: Received 14 Day 'Court Proceedings' Letter from Shoosmiths/Arrow Global LTD

Lol, we did quite well then - we must have sounded more pathetic ... are you happy with that ? Could always write with the f&f settlement offer I guess ... just concerned on your timescales with going away again.

If post still goes to your Old address do you get informed of anything important ? If something did turn up on the NatWest debt while you're away could you deal with it ? If so you could leave it be and hope to get to statute barred.

[Diana M]

Re: Received 14 Day 'Court Proceedings' Letter from Shoosmiths/Arrow Global LTD

- I leave the country for around two years in a month's time.
- The address they currently have for me, which is the address with which I applied for my current credit card is my mother's, as I have no fixed place in this country.

You should decide whether you want to:

(a) inform your creditors by email that you are leaving the country so that there is evidence on file that they were informed of your 'change of address' in case a claim is issued to your 'last known address' (i.e. mother) in your absence and you need to make an Application to set aside.

or

(b) ask your mother to scan and send you all your post by email so you can deal with anything which happens while you're away.

or

(c) ask your mother to return all post unopened stating 'Returned to Sender - Gone Away' on the envelope if that is the case.

Doing nothing is not really a wise option.

Di

[Diana M]

Re: Received 14 Day 'Court Proceedings' Letter from Shoosmiths/Arrow Global LTD

If I arrange a sum to pay with them, then pay it, will this increase the likelihood of the other debt coming to light, or not change the likelihood?

Any activity on your CRA file (good or bad) can alert your other creditors.

Perhaps this recent Arrow incident was triggered by your successful American Express application. That account will now be showing on your CRA file with the available limit and monthly payment record etc. Anyone searching the file (or sent activity alerts) will presume your financial circumstances have improved so you can potentially afford to pay them what they believe you owe them too.

An account marked settled or satisfied can have the same effect. It gives the impression that your fortunes have changed even if the F&F settlement was paid by a third party on your behalf.

When did you last pay anything towards the Nat West debt and do they still own it or has it been assigned to a debt purchaser?

Was it a credit card, loan or current account overdraft?

Di