Robinson Way threatening over old HSBC flexiloan

[leehardy83]

@Amethyst. Hope I've put this in the right forum mate. This relates to a subject I mentioned in this thread http://legalbeagles.info/forums/show...965#post745965.
In that thread about being chased for a HSBC overdraft, I also mentioned I was being chased for:
•a HSBC flexiloan
•a HSBC credit card.

Subject:
This thread is about the HSBC flexloan for the value of £2709.70. This debt is being chased by Robinson Way. I have attached two letters from them.

I have sent them several CCA requests using the templates on here which seems to annoy them. In the recent attachment, you will see them moan that they will not enter into repetitive communications with me and further internet based internet templates "wont be acknowledged".

Interestingly, in one of the attachments, they say as "this account relates to a HSBC overdraft there is no legal requirement to sign an agreement to open this type of account and the account is exempt from Part V of the CCA 1974.".

However, as you know @Amethyst, I am being chased by a seperate company for a seperate amount for the overdraft as seen in this thread http://legalbeagles.info/forums/showthread.php?100720-Urgent-help-needed-please-quot-NOTIFICATION-OF-ACCOUNT-TRANSFER-TO-RESTONS-SOLICITORS-quot&p=745965#post745965.


I am therefore confused why they are using overdraft exemption law when this product is for a HSBC flexiloan, not an overdraft.

I continue to send them CCA requests and prove it letters but they reply with sarcy responses as can be seen in the attachment.

Background:
I defaulted on the debt in July 2010. I was studying a masters at the time and wrote to HSBC to say I could nott afford to keep paying the fees and charges for the loan as public funding had been cut for Masters degrees and I was drowning in charges. I wrote to them on several occasions to express my financial hardship with budget sheets but most letters were ignored before they defaulted me.Robinson Way did try to pass it to Howard Cohen about a year ago when the debt was due to be 6 years from default but after I asked for certain documents, they never took it any further.

Last Date of Payment:
- 09/06/2011 token payment according to the SAR.
- The SAR has a section of dates with brief diary comments. It says "Letter In - Copy Attached" on 11/11/11. I cant see any such attached letter on that date though. Do we think this constitutes proof that I admitted the debt then? If the letter was actually attached, I could say whether it was me who sent it or not.
They have given me until 15/09/17 to reply to them confirming an offer of payment and to complete the financial statement.

My Questions:

1. Have I been correct in sending CCA requests and prove it letters for this flexiloan?
2. Why do they keep telling me my internet based templates wont be replied to?
3. What should I do next? Last date of payment is over 6 years ago but this brief mention on one page of a "Letter In - Copy attached" is a bit of a concern as i cant remember whether i did write to them then or not.
4. Anything else I should try and find in the SAR?

Many Thanks for yours@Amethyst's help and anyone else who will help me with this subject.

[Amethyst]

Re: Robinson Way threatening over old HSBC flexiloan

Only need to send one CCA request, then stop, it still counts .... if they did comply, then you could send another after a month, but be a bit pointless. Basically you don't want them to come up with the document so really, don't chase them too much.

Have you sent a further CCA request since the letter telling you it is an overdraft ? Have you actually been able to relate the account number via your SAR to the loan ? Did you get your loan agreement in with the SAR?

I am therefore confused why they are using overdraft exemption law when this product is for a HSBC flexiloan, not an overdraft.

They're just crap, and the info provided on assignment by HSBC will have been deficient.

They do say the account is on hold, so I'd leave it alone until you get any kind of movement towards court tbh.

Flexiloan current terms etc https://www.hsbc.co.uk/1/2/loans/flexible-loans/details

[leehardy83]

Re: Robinson Way threatening over old HSBC flexiloan

Only need to send one CCA request, then stop, it still counts .... if they did comply, then you could send another after a month, but be a bit pointless. Basically you don't want them to come up with the document so really, don't chase them too much.

Have you sent a further CCA request since the letter telling you it is an overdraft ? Have you actually been able to relate the account number via your SAR to the loan ? Did you get your loan agreement in with the SAR?
They're just crap, and the info provided on assignment by HSBC will have been deficient.

They do say the account is on hold, so I'd leave it alone until you get any kind of movement towards court tbh.

Flexiloan current terms etc https://www.hsbc.co.uk/1/2/loans/flexible-loans/details

- I have sent more CCA requests but they tend to sarcistically reply like the attached document indicates as if I am not following the correct procedure with the usual "your internet templates have no relevance here".

- Do you class what that letter says as them saying it is an overdraft because I have the SAR and it is 100% a flexiloan, not an overdraft so I believe I am correct in asking for a CCA request.

- I will have a look for the loan agreement in the SAR.

- There is no payment at all (unlike the overdraft where I made token £1s as you recall) within the last 6 years. They do say "LETTER IN" from customer in Nov 2011 but I cannot see that letter attached. I am wondering where that leaves my statute barred status.

[leehardy83]

Re: Robinson Way threatening over old HSBC flexiloan

Hi again [MENTION=6]Amethyst[/MENTION]. Robinson Way chasing me again today. They are saying:
"We can confirm this debt relates to an overdraft on your bank account with HSBC (bank account number- *******. And sort code-******). Please note that an overdraft could be authorised or unauthorised.".

They have rejected my CCA requests in the past based on this. According to my HSBC SAR this account is 100% a HSBC flexiloan. I am in touch with Restons solicitors (the other post you have helped me with) regarding the overdraft.

1. What do you think is going on here? Do Robinson Way have their facts wrong or are they trying to use the words relates to to deceive me into thinking CCA requests don't apply here even though they clearly would to a flexiloan. If there was some sort of unarranged overdraft on the Flexiloan, could they use this to say it wasn't a flexiloan, but in fact an overdraft?
2. Both companies cannot be right can they? There is only a HSBC overdraft I have. According to my SAR it is Restons solicitors who have the correct overdraft number and amount. This account number and sort code my SAR says is the flexiloan.
3. I have made no payment towards it in the past 6 years. There is one page in the SAR that says "LETTER IN from cust - attached". I cant see any atachment. I wonder if they would try pull out that letter and say its me admitting the debt within the past 6 years?

Please advise on what you would do at this point.

I am going to come to an agreement of payment with Restons because I have clearly made a payment in the past 6 years but do not wish to nor particularly have the finances to also be paying Robbers Way.

Thanks again for any help.

[leehardy83]

Re: Robinson Way threatening over old HSBC flexiloan - HELP needed.

- I have sent more CCA requests but they tend to sarcistically reply like the attached document indicates as if I am not following the correct procedure with the usual "your internet templates have no relevance here".
- Do you class what that letter says as them saying it is an overdraft because I have the SAR and it is 100% a flexiloan, not an overdraft so I believe I am correct in asking for a CCA request.

- I will have a look for the loan agreement in the SAR.

- There is no payment at all (unlike the overdraft where I made token £1s as you recall) within the last 6 years. They do say "LETTER IN" from customer in Nov 2011 but I cannot see that letter attached. I am wondering where that leaves my statute barred status.

Latest Findings:
Hi there again.

• So I have been going through my HSBC further. I have lost count the number of times HSBC refer to this debt as my FLEXILOAN.
• Robinson Way continue to chase it as an overdraft and have rejected my CCA requests and said "please note this account relates to a HSBC overdraft. There is no legal requirement to sign an agreement to open this type of account. There, the account from part V of the Consumer Credit Acrt, 1974, amended 2006"
• I have a letter from HSBC where they say:

"I am therefore obliged to send you the enclosed Default Notice in respect of your FLEXILOAN.
Default notice Served Under Section 87 (1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974......

• I believe the account must have gone into an informal overdraft by going overdrawn

My Questions:

• Is there any way that Robinson Way are correct here in telling me its in respect to an overdraft debt or are they using this as some sort of tactic to reject my CCA requests and things?
• Is there any way a flexiloan can be converted to an overdraft without me knowing?

They are really frustrating me dismissing my requests of proof of the debt.

Thanks again for any excellent advice.

[leehardy83]

Re: Robinson Way threatening over old HSBC flexiloan

anyone get chance to take a look at this? [MENTION=6]Amethyst[/MENTION] or anybody else please?

[Amethyst]

Re: Robinson Way threatening over old HSBC flexiloan

Hellooooooooo, I've obviously been hiding your posts in some kind of cave...... sorry.................. reading,...............

[leehardy83]

Re: Robinson Way threatening over old HSBC flexiloan

Hellooooooooo, I've obviously been hiding your posts in some kind of cave...... sorry.................. reading,...............

ha thanks mate. This one isnt at threat of court action yet though i imagine they may sway that way.

@ameythst
-So you would bounce them back with another CCA request even though they normally reject them?
-Are CCA requests valid for an overdraft (theyre calling it an ovedraft even though everything in the SAR refers to it as a flexiloan

[Amethyst]

Re: Robinson Way threatening over old HSBC flexiloan

I'm trying to find the flexiloan terms, but just thought - did you get a copy in your SAR ?

Current details - https://www.hsbc.co.uk/1/2/loans/flexible-loans/details

[leehardy83]

Re: Robinson Way threatening over old HSBC flexiloan

-I will double check but i have seen no flexiloan terms in the SAR. I cant even find an agreeement either.

-Is there any reason they keep calling it an overdraft despite the fact its a flexiloan?
-What grounds can you think of that i would defend here?
-From my end, i've repeatedly ask for proof of the debt and seen none.
-I cant find much in the SAR. Last payment on the account is oer 6 years ago and it defaulted over 7 years ago. I can see one piece of paper in the SAR says "letter IN- attached" but theres no attachent. i wonder if theyd try say that is me contacting them within 6 years?

[Amethyst]

Re: Robinson Way threatening over old HSBC flexiloan

Because they are idiots and are working off very minimal info provided by HSBC, via Hoist, via someone else most likely.

Flexiloan was a kind of drawdown facility attached to the current account. I believe it is still a loan although it's not a fixed sum loan - bit more like a credit card. But it isn't an overdraft I just want to check exactly what the agreements are ( and I haven't found a single one yet across the debt sites like CAG, MSE, AAD, GOODF etc etc ). Usually there's one agreement somewhere, even on a goodle image search, but I've come up with sod all. Regardless I do believe it is a regualted credit agreement and not an overdraft so it is subject to the CCA 77-79 sections, so that does serve as a defence.... but I hate not KNOWing lol.

Concern over the statute barred defence only would be that you paid Metropolitan on one HSBC debt, it's likely they had all the debts from HSBC and possible you paid a bit on each - you'd need to check your bank statements from when that payment was made to see if there are others, or a single larger sum that's been distributed.

If you wanted to settle then after non compliance with CCA is normally a good time, but ATM they are being ignorant in simply denying it is a loan.

You're only at chasing letters with Rob Way - they don't bring court action themselves it would be Hoist via Restons I think. I'm dealing with RobWay ATM on something settlement wise so I'll let you know how I get on.

Oh, any letters, always put I do not acknowledge any debt to your company at the top, and if it is an offer, then mark it without prejudice.

[Diana M]

Re: Robinson Way threatening over old HSBC flexiloan

This thread is about the HSBC flexloan for the value of £2709.70. This debt is being chased by Robinson Way.

. . . I have sent them several CCA requests using the templates on here which seems to annoy them.

. . . . . I am therefore confused why they are using overdraft exemption law when this product is for a HSBC flexiloan, not an overdraft.

I continue to send them CCA requests and prove it letters but they reply with sarcy responses as can be seen in the attachment.
. . . . Robinson Way did try to pass it to Howard Cohen about a year ago when the debt was due to be 6 years from default but after I asked for certain documents, they never took it any further

Is this debt now currently owned by Hoist Portfolio?

I ask because you say you managed to get Howard Cohen solicitors to back down a year ago. What were the documents you asked them for? Hoist always instruct Howard Cohen.

You say you've sent CCA Requests and Robinson Way say they won't entertain any more from you. But if a debt owner hasn't complied with your CCA Request nothing is gained by sending another. Did any of your CCA Requests get sent to Hoist?

As far as I'm aware the HSBC Flexiloan was a CCA regulated account. It was a fixed sum loan typically £3k or £5k. It had a cheque book facility and was 'repaid' by transfer from a current account into the Flexiloan. It had no other connection to the current account.

I had a Flexiloan (personally) and I still have the credit agreement (I keep everything )

Di

[leehardy83]

Re: Robinson Way threatening over old HSBC flexiloan

@Ameythst

Because they are idiots and are working off very minimal info provided by HSBC, via Hoist, viÅa someone else most likely.

Flexiloan was a kind of drawdown facility attached to the current account. I believe it is still a loan although it's not a fixed sum loan - bit more like a credit card. But it isn't an overdraft I just want to check exactly what the agreements are ( and I haven't found a single one yet across the debt sites like CAG, MSE, AAD, GOODF etc etc ). Usually there's one agreement somewhere, even on a goodle image search, but I've come up with sod all. Regardless I do believe it is a regualted credit agreement and not an overdraft so it is subject to the CCA 77-79 sections, so that does serve as a defence.... but I hate not KNOWing lol.

I think that’s why they keep rejecting my CCA request – because they believe its exempt. They have still yet to show me any proof of the debt.

Concern over the statute barred defence only would be that you paid Metropolitan on one HSBC debt, it's likely they had all the debts from HSBC and possible you paid a bit on each - you'd need to check your bank statements from when that payment was made to see if there are others, or a single larger sum that's been distributed.

If you wanted to settle then after non compliance with CCA is normally a good time, but ATM they are being ignorant in simply denying it is a loan.

I haven’t told them they are wrong yet and that it is not an overdraft because I don’t want to be seen to admit the debt.

You're only at chasing letters with Rob Way - they don't bring court action themselves it would be Hoist via Restons I think. I'm dealing with RobWay ATM on something settlement wise so I'll let you know how I get on.

Oh, any letters, always put I do not acknowledge any debt to your company at the top, and if it is an offer, then mark it without prejudice.

I have checked the SAR and there is a bit of the SAR marked HSBC Collection Services (which is what Metropolitan used to be called I believe).

-It clearly shows 3 separate accounts:
1. HSBCflexiloan (but RobWay keep calling it an overdraft). The last payment says June 2011.
2. HSBC credit card (no payment since June 2011)
3. HSBC overdraft (currently withRestons and there was a payment of £1 in Nov 2011).

I think these statements of account surely show thati only made the £1 towards one product not all 3? I actually paid £3 in June 2011, £1 for each different account. I would say that this shows the £1 in Nov 2011 was only for the HSBC overdraft .


You're only at chasing letters with Rob Way - they don't bring court action themselves it would be Hoist via Restons I think. I'm dealing with RobWay ATM on something settlement wise so I'll let you know how I get on.Questions remaining
_____________________
Firstly, you are right. They havent mentioned court yet
1. Should i keep up with CCA requests even though they always reply with "internet templates have no basis in law"
2. Is there any way they can class this as an overdraft even though the SAR constantly refers to it as a flexiloan?
3. Is it statute barred? Last payment was June 2011 for £3 (£1 on each seperate account). It is a completly seperate account and account number that shows the nov 2011 payment so how can they try class this as a payment?
4. Why can they still show me little proof of the debt? The SAR has little of interest either
5. One page of the SAR has a list of interactions and says LETTER - Cust In - Attached, as though id sent thema a letter within the past 6 years. I cant see this letter though, its not in the SAR. Is this enough to say it isnt statute barred?

[leehardy83]

Re: Robinson Way threatening over old HSBC flexiloan

Is this debt now currently owned by Hoist Portfolio?
-Its with Robinson Way at the moment.

I ask because you say you managed to get Howard Cohen solicitors to back down a year ago. What were the documents you asked them for? Hoist always instruct Howard Cohen.
I think i just asked them for proof of the alleged debt via a CCA request. They said they were asking their client for said documents but never produced them. They disappeared for a good 7 months but now are back asking for the money again and still haven't produced said documents.

You say you've sent CCA Requests and Robinson Way say they won't entertain any more from you. But if a debt owner hasn't complied with your CCA Request nothing is gained by sending another. Did any of your CCA Requests get sent to Hoist?

I have sent everyone who has sent me letters, CCA requests and never received them back. I have done a SAR to HSBC as well. I can find a £3 payment (£1 for this flexiloan, £1 for a credit card and £1 for an overdraft back in june 2011). I havent made a payment since on this account according to the HSBC SAR. I did make a payment of £1 in Nov 2011 towards a seperate HBSC debt. Im wondering if that means its statute barred?

The SAR pages do say LETTER IN from cust Nov 2011 but nothing is attached. I wonder if they would try say that means i contacted them within 6 years

As far as I'm aware the HSBC Flexiloan was a CCA regulated account. It was a fixed sum loan typically £3k or £5k. It had a cheque book facility and was 'repaid' by transfer from a current account into the Flexiloan. It had no other connection to the current account.

I had a Flexiloan (personally) and I still have the credit agreement (I keep everything )
I wish i was that organised. This was during my Masters degree i defaulted. I had told HSBC i was in financial trouble but they kept adding on charges and defaulted me in July 2011

Di

Thanks for taking the time to look at this Diane!

[Amethyst]

Re: Robinson Way threatening over old HSBC flexiloan

I had a Flexiloan (personally) and I still have the credit agreement (I keep everything )

Di

Cool, could you pop an anonymised copy in the library please for ref xxx